NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...

KendallR10

One of my friends (B) and I we're at a parade with her FI. His NCO was using his toolbox and couldn't get it open. B said to the NCO, in complete respect, "you have to open the tabs on the side, SGT." Well after she said that the NCO gave her FI lawful orders to hit her. 

This isn't the first time this has happened either. 

Is there anything she can do? 

This NCO is totally out of control. 

calindi

There's no such lawful orders.  And I feel like this is a dumb question.  You do not have to obey orders that are against the law, and domestic abuse is against the law. 

Also, I'm not military, and I don't report to anyone - if someone gave someone else orders to hit someone, I'd tell them to go f*** themselves.  If someone told my FI to hit me, he'd report them to their chain of command for abuse of power, and honestly he'd probably tell them to go f*** themselves, too, even if it meant disrespecting a superior.  And it goes without saying (hopefully) that there's a snowball's chance in heII that FI would actually lay a hand on me EVER.  I don't care if General Amos told him to, it wouldn't happen.

Seriously, you need to get smarter friends.  You're constantly posting about stupid stuff one of your 'friends' said or did.

KendallR10

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_ncos-lawful-orders-hitting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:2fb00581-8117-409c-9db4-8528d52e3b10Post:c54e4f58-10fd-4d3d-917b-fdccb5346260">Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...</a>:
[QUOTE]There's no such lawful orders.  And I feel like this is a dumb question.  You do not have to obey orders that are against the law, and domestic abuse is against the law.  Also, I'm not military, and I don't report to anyone - if someone gave someone else orders to hit someone, I'd tell them to go f*** themselves.  If someone told my FI to hit me, he'd report them to their chain of command for abuse of power, and honestly he'd probably tell them to go f*** themselves, too, even if it meant disrespecting a superior.  And it goes without saying (hopefully) that there's a snowball's chance in heII that FI would actually lay a hand on me EVER.  I don't care if General Amos told him to, it wouldn't happen. Seriously, you need to get smarter friends.  You're constantly posting about stupid stuff one of your 'friends' said or did.
Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]
I'm not his "friend" I'm her friend. <div>
</div><div>I'm honestly shocked that he did it. I never thought that he would. </div><div>
</div><div>Is there anything she can do about it?</div>

calindi

She can file domestic abuse charges against her boyfriend.  She can break up with him, which is what I would do if someone ever laid a hand on me.  She can tell him he's an idiot and a loser and a chump for following such a stupid order and breaking the law and becoming an abuser just because someone told him to.

As far as the NCO, technically I don't think she can do anything about him.  She can try to report him to his chain of command, but chances are she doesn't know who the chain of command is or how to get in touch with them.   It really should be her boyfriend who reports his abuse of power to his chain of command.

Seriously though, these things only seem to happen to you.  Any one of my friends would have figured this out for themselves and stood up for themselves in the moment.  (Don't misconstrue what I'm saying to mean anything negative towards abuse victims - not at all!  This is just such a weird situation, and I just don't know of anyone who would have gotten into this situation in the first place, let alone just stand there and let someone hit them in public at someone else's 'orders'.)

Irishcurls

I mean, did the boyfriend follow the "orders?" Ditto Calindi, break up with the d-bag.

firsttimersluck

this is so dumb... you have got to be joking and not asking this for realzzz

iluvmytxrgr

NCO ordered her FI to hit her and he followed them?  If this is true, she needs to go see the CO, the MPs and the IG.  You can not lawfully order someone to break the law and a SM is not bound by the military to follow any order that ANYONE gives them to break a law.  If the damn Command Sergeant Major of the Army ordered you to hit your FI, you are not bound to do it.  That NCO and the SM can go to jail. 

kyrgyzstan

Uh...

This is the strangest post I've ever seen on this board, and that's saying something. 

calindi

Stan, what would happen if someone told your FI to hit you?  I'm really interested to hear your response!

Killer Cupcake

We're speaking hypothetically, right? Because I can't imagine anyone being this dense...

calindi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_ncos-lawful-orders-hitting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:2fb00581-8117-409c-9db4-8528d52e3b10Post:7da412a7-5948-4357-a8bc-54ccdbcb9da2">Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...</a>:
[QUOTE]We're speaking hypothetically, right? Because I can't imagine anyone being this dense...
Posted by Killer Cupcake[/QUOTE]

I really want to make it clear that abuse victims aren't dense.  I'm very sensitive on that topic, so I do want to step in and put the word out (probably redundantly) that no one ever deserves to get hit, and it can be a scary situation to get out of.  So I feel for the girl getting hit.  (Not personal experience, but I have volunteered in shelters for abuse victims).

But I also just fail to see how this could physically happen - I mean, the guy gave the 'order', which means she had time to respond.  So she just stood there and waited for her FI to hit her?  And then she just... took it?  And she didn't respond?  And you said you were there - you just let him hit her?  And you didn't do anything or say anything?

SamiJoeB

I'm pretty sure Cupcake was speaking more of the density of the OP...

Get Smarter friends, or at the very least, stop posting about them...

kyrgyzstan

Cal, if you look on MN, you'll see that FI and I often talk about theoretical lawful order scenarios. We're real fun people at parties.

Killer Cupcake

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_ncos-lawful-orders-hitting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:2fb00581-8117-409c-9db4-8528d52e3b10Post:fb4f6c7a-47ee-4a8b-97c7-aa46d7d357aa">Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm pretty sure Cupcake was speaking more of the density of the OP... Get Smarter friends, or at the very least, stop posting about them...
Posted by SamiJoeB[/QUOTE]

I was.

Beachy730

Seriously Kendall, get new friends.  

Killer Cupcake

I feel like this is a really bad version of A Few Good Men. 

If your friend stood there and let her FI hit her, she's not too bright. 

If friend's FI actually hit her, he's a moron. 

If Sgt. said that, and MEANT it, he's an idiot. 

But something tells me that Sgt. wasn't serious. Would joking about it be in poor taste? Yeah. Probably. Especially if they don't even know one another. But I really doubt he actually wanted that person to hit his FI. And the fact that FI did and all of the blame is being put on the Sgt. is kind of telling.

freebread03

Sorry for the totally blind post since I never post here, but are you saying that he actually fist-closed punched her?  Not a joking sort of "bat with the hand" but a real punch? 

This is really weird.  I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to actually hit someone because their CO "ordered" them to, at a parade no less.

MrsAggie

Lol this is the biggest load of crap. Your friend's bf's NCO gave orders...at a parade...to beat her for offering help on how to open HIS toolbox (which 1. why does he have/need a toolbox at a parade and 2. why would he not know how to open his own toolbox)? Hahahaha omg I can't believe anyone believes this chick.

crownsuperstar

I have a hard time believing that a NCO or officer at any level would order someone to commit assault on another person since there are very strick rules against it.  That would cost the NCO his/her career and I am sure that he/she would not risk that. 

Also, what a tool she has for a FI that would not say the NCO (if this is true) to f off. 

firsttimersluck

I have a hard time believing you seriously have friends like this. What were you expecting to hear from us as responses to this post? 
 
Also, cali I doubt she meant the abuse victim is dense... I'm thinking she means Kendall.... Or this "guy" that would actually take that as orders.
Idk either way this is all kinds of weird.

LetsHikeToday

Kendall- If this really happened, I'm sorry for your friend. I don't know if I think it's fair to tell you to get new friends especially because this is not your friends fault. I would support her and help her get out of this situation.

However, I would hope that she would know what to do without you posting this. She should obviously call the police and leave him.

Is there any possible way she made this story up? Were you there to see this?

ggirl2001

This has to be a joke. It just has to be. Hell, even if it were true, why didn't you say something at the time? And come back and explain, did her FI hit her? Or did he do the smart thing and ignore it? Are you sure this isn't something blown entirely out of proportion, that the NCO was joking (maybe not right to do) and FI was joking around, and you misinterpreted it?

Killer Cupcake

For the record...

I mean that OP and friend's FI are dense. Not abuse victims. 

SamiJoeB

I mean, who has a parade for like a random saturday in August? What was is celebrating? Ridiculously stupid questions?

IF, and I doubt most things you even say anymore K, an NCO said that, I'm sure he was kidding.  If her FI hit her, was it like a playful tap? You're being overly dramatic either way.

ETA: any idiot would know that this wasn't a "lawful" order.  You'll learn that in boot Kendall... Oh wait..

LOLways

Really???

I could see someone jokingly saying "you should slap the ho for not figuring that one out".... obviously it's sexist, messed up, etc. but I could see someone saying that. Jokingly.

What I definitely have trouble believing is the moron hauling off and smacking his woman after that.

As an aside, I'm pretty sure most everyone gets training now on what a lawful order is, LOAC, etc. Even if you take common sense out of the equation, theoretically the dude should've been trained on what a lawful order is and should know better.

KendallR10

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_ncos-lawful-orders-hitting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:2fb00581-8117-409c-9db4-8528d52e3b10Post:27f45724-1ce9-4185-ace2-f63fea5ff095">Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...</a>:
[QUOTE]Kendall- If this really happened, I'm sorry for your friend. I don't know if I think it's fair to tell you to get new friends especially because this is not your friends fault. I would support her and help her get out of this situation. However, I would hope that she would know what to do without you posting this. She should obviously call the police and leave him. Is there any possible way she made this story up? Were you there to see this?
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

<div>I was literally standing right next to her. I only used the words 'lawful orders' because what her FI said was, "Sorry babe, its a lawful order." </div>

kyrgyzstan

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_ncos-lawful-orders-hitting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:2fb00581-8117-409c-9db4-8528d52e3b10Post:4c2f9a3c-7795-4911-a0f3-98435eafcefd">Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting... : I was literally standing right next to her. I only used the words 'lawful orders' because what her FI said was, "Sorry babe, its a lawful order." 
Posted by KendallR10[/QUOTE]

<div>Uh. No. </div><div>
</div><div>If I saw any of my friends' SOs HIT them in front of me, I would have to be held back from laying that SO on the effing ground. </div><div>
</div><div>How did he hit her? I think that needs to be clarified. Because when I say hit above, I mean hit in order to punish/control/cause pain/etc.</div>

SamiJoeB

Obviously her FI is a tool.

Irishcurls

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_ncos-lawful-orders-hitting?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:2fb00581-8117-409c-9db4-8528d52e3b10Post:4c2f9a3c-7795-4911-a0f3-98435eafcefd">Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NCOs, lawful orders and hitting... : I was literally standing right next to her. I only used the words 'lawful orders' because what her FI said was, <strong>"Sorry babe, its a lawful order." </strong>
Posted by KendallR10[/QUOTE]
Like if you want chinese food and he wants pizza? Or whatever his NCO says? Or you relayed the story to your FI and he sided with the d-bag boyfriend? Who has conversations like this?? Maybe I'm not doing it right....

ggirl2001

If this is true, then Kendall I seriously question you for standing there and letting it happen, and your FI if he was there. But I agree with stan's question. How did he hit her? Was it a joking manner, like H and I wrestle around sometimes and play punch each other? And again, who the F believes that its actually true that its a "lawful order"? You, your friend, and friends FI have to be smarter than this?

LetsHikeToday

Kendall- What was your response? Did he actually hit her in front of you? Because if he did, you should have called the police.