the baby question again.

Norway_T

SO........ I will either start law school this fall or fall 2011. If I start in fall 11, we want to have a baby first.  (In Norway I will get a full years salary for maternity leave).

We want kids, and since we will be leaving Norway feel we should try to take advantage of the opportunity.

The plus side to having a baby:

We get to stay in Norway another year with his family and all our friends
We can save A LOT more money before starting school (salaries are high in Norway)
I will essentially get paid my first 6 months or so of law school, from the maternity money
My mom will provide free daycare
My child will be the same age as my sister in laws kid and best friends kid
Absolutely free health care
THE US economy is awful, why leave Norway for the US this year when we have  good jobs here_
the price of our condo is going up and will continue to rise (most likely) over the next year

The downside:
We are young still 26/27, but at least we have a stable, happy healthy relationship of 5+ years
Law school is not going to be easy with a child
We would probably hold off on having a wedding ceremony until after the child 


IT all comes down to "am I ready".   Well my maternal clock has not started to kick. But to be honest, I feel it might be easier to have a child now, take 6 month maternity leave in NOrway and start school with a six month year old. No not the easiest thing to do. But it  might be easier to have kids now, when I can take the first six month off and summers.  Once I am starting a law career I imagine it will be much more difficult.  Plus my bf could potentially stay home with the child the my 1st semester, since we will have my income from maternity leave.

My thoughts are  to wait and see what happens in April. I am applying for a full ride scholarship at my 2nd choice school. If I got that I would definetly go to school in the fall.

There is also a question of whether my Bf gets into an Architecture program or not. If he gets in it might be another reason to go this year.

...Another alternative is to try to work in Norway to save money then go to the US with no baby. But my job is so draining, I dont think thats reason enough to stay in Norway, if I were on maternity leave for half that year though, that would be better.

Thank God I have a mom who well help with daycare, it really makes having a baby an option.

jeanacorina

Woah. STOP.

Logic is all well and good, but when it comes to having a baby, you should NOT unless you're 100% totaly positive and certain that you WANT to do it NOW.

It's not something that you can plan out and say "it'll go like this" or "I'll do that".... having a baby makes everything unpredictable. All plans can be thrown out the window in a second, and babies do NOT make ANYTHING easier.

You mentioned it comes down to your gut feeling, and that's very true. It's nice you have things mapped out like so.... but honey that just doesn't mean a whole lot. You cannot bank on those plans when it comes to bringing another life into the world.

You need to do some soul-searching and talking with your BF. Pros/Cons lists are for buying a house.... not so much for having kids.

**Mutley**

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_baby-question-again?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:307fb811-088b-48b8-aece-f919c964b3f7Post:638c5cf4-2bd3-4917-81a5-9c9add31de5e">the baby question again.</a>:
[QUOTE]SO........ I will either start law school this fall or fall 2011. If I start in fall 11, we want to have a baby first.  (In Norway I will get a full years salary for maternity leave). We want kids, and since we will be leaving Norway feel we should try to take advantage of the opportunity. The plus side to having a baby: We get to stay in Norway another year with his family and all our friends We can save A LOT more money before starting school (salaries are high in Norway) I will essentially get paid my first 6 months or so of law school, from the maternity money My mom will provide free daycare My child will be the same age as my sister in laws kid and best friends kid Absolutely free health care THE US economy is awful, why leave Norway for the US this year when we have  good jobs here_ the price of our condo is going up and will continue to rise (most likely) over the next year The downside: We are young still 26/27, but at least we have a stable, happy healthy relationship of 5+ years Law school is not going to be easy with a child We would probably hold off on having a wedding ceremony until after the child  :( IT all comes down to "am I ready".   Well my maternal clock has not started to kick. But to be honest, I feel it might be easier to have a child now, take 6 month maternity leave in NOrway and start school with a six month year old. No not the easiest thing to do. But it  might be easier to have kids now, when I can take the first six month off and summers.  Once I am starting a law career I imagine it will be much more difficult.  Plus my bf could potentially stay home with the child the my 1st semester, since we will have my income from maternity leave. My thoughts are  to wait and see what happens in April. I am applying for a full ride scholarship at my 2nd choice school. If I got that I would definetly go to school in the fall. There is also a question of whether my Bf gets into an Architecture program or not. If he gets in it might be another reason to go this year. ...Another alternative is to try to work in Norway to save money then go to the US with no baby. But my job is so draining, I dont think thats reason enough to stay in Norway, if I were on maternity leave for half that year though, that would be better. Thank God I have a mom who well help with daycare, it really makes having a baby an option.
Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]

My pregnant, stabby ass cannot reply to this. 

jeanacorina

I thought of you, Mutley.

**Mutley**

I wouldn't even know where to start.  I should know better than to open ANY of her threads by now.  Proof that newbies aren't the only ones that annoy me.

P.S. Yep.  I am a bitter, married old pregnant housewife. 
You should feel sorry for my husband and unborn spawn. 

PaigeMcC

I agree with Jeana (wow, that's a surprise!).  You really need to come at this decision from your gut and not from your head.  I know it's usually the opposite but you really need to be ready for this.  Once you have kids - everything changes!  There is no set out plan with kids, no matter how hard you try it never goes according to plan.  

Sit down and talk to BF about it.  Do you REALLY want kids now or are you just doing it b/c you want kids in the future but now seems like it might be a better time?  What about waiting until after you've started your career...a few years in.  I know the maternity leave won't be as good but you may be more ready for a child then. 

If you're really not sure then I'd say wait.  You'll know when the time is right.

noelle24

I think my head just exploded.

jeanacorina

AHH! NOELLE! THERE"S BRAIN GOO ON MY SCREEN!

getitoffgetitoffgetitoff!

oceana919

::headdesk::

Norway, it's a BABY, not a puppy.

noelle24

**hands jeana some windex and paper towels**

You can always send Norway the cleaning bill

desertsun

pssst, it's WHOA not WOAH.

Norway, I get it -- you're a very logical person who thinks things through and has to be analytical, even when it comes to emotional things. I'm the same way.

What I get from almost every post you make is that you want to stay in Norway and almost seem to be talking yourself out of it for no apparent reason.

You have plenty of time for law school and babies down the road. You don't have to pursue those things NOW.

Just enjoy Norway for another year or two, save your money, and see what happens. You really don't have to have a 5 year plan with everything mapped out. Especially if you have a financial cushion.

I feel like your gut is telling me you should stay, sans bebes. I could be wrong, but this is just the sense I get based on all of your posts over the last several months. I could be wrong, though. Basically, you need to listen to yourself and do what will make you happiest and stop worrying about planning every detail.

Good luck, and keep us updated, please!

jeanacorina

I am so glad that I'm not crazy. Because when I started replying to Norawy, I was like "am I crazy?" Because I'm 26, and I want kids FO SHO, but it still scares the hell outta me.

And I'm like............ you don't REALLY make a pros/cons list, do you? I mean........ I always figured it's SUPPOSED to be terrifying and miraculous and insane and that no matter how much you THINK you're ready, you NEVER are.

So.... glad you guys seem to be validating MY gut feeling.

**Mutley**

Now, Oceana...  DH and I keep joking that at least a baby can wear a diaper.  Potty training during one of the worst rainy seasons this area has seen in over 100 years has been 'interesting.'

babybchbum

I would say that if you are having to come up with reasons to have a child this is probably not the right time to have one.

PS. Jeana, Muttley nad Noelle .... you ladies are too funny.

paintgirl

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but IDEALLY it goes like this:
1. Ring/proposal/commitment to commit
2. Commitment (i.e. marriage, with or without big Disney princess dress)
3. Maybe babies. Someday.

And where I'm from, add an extra step around 1 or 2 - finish education.

I do know some European countries consider the marriage part to be optional, but obviously you don't, or you wouldn't be here.

Bottom line: First thing first! Slow the h*ll down! And why ask anonymous strangers? How about running through your checklist with the intended baby daddy?

Ana_2985

I read this once and then left because I didn't think there was a question or request for advice.  It's basically just a journal entry.  But I'll let you know what I think anyway.

The plus side to having a baby:

We get to stay in Norway another year with his family and all our friends
You can do this without having a baby.
We can save A LOT more money before starting school (salaries are high in Norway)
You can do this without having a baby.
I will essentially get paid my first 6 months or so of law school, from the maternity money
That sounds very much like you want have a baby simply so someone will pay for the students loan that I believe you said would be over $100,000.  Personally, I think that's messed up.
My mom will provide free daycare
But she won't several years from now?  Why are her rates going up in the next few years?
My child will be the same age as my sister in laws kid and best friends kid
It's possible that they won't like each other anyway.  I can also guarantee you that there will be other children born whenever you choose to have a baby.  And maybe sister and friend will coordinate babies with you later on too.
Absolutely free health care
You're willing to take out a loan for school, but not to pay for your baby's health care (or yours while you're pregnant?)
THE US economy is awful, why leave Norway for the US this year when we have  good jobs here_
You can stay in Norway without a baby.
the price of our condo is going up and will continue to rise (most likely) over the next year
Are there no other condos?  And why will a baby affect real estate prices.

The downside:
We are young still 26/27, but at least we have a stable, happy healthy relationship of 5+ years
I don't get why this is a downside.  You mean 26 and 27 are too young to have babies?
Law school is not going to be easy with a child
Yes.
We would probably hold off on having a wedding ceremony until after the child 
I'm not sure why this is necessary, but I think if you can't decide if you want a wedding or a baby more it's probably a good indicator that you aren't ready/don't really want a baby right now.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just pointing out some flaws in your logic.

katanne9

IMO, you're over analyzing this. If you don't feel 100% about it, I don't think you're completely ready and I would wait. You sound like you're trying to talk yourself into one way or the other.

**Mutley**

Hell, DH and I knew that there would never be the perfect time to have kids.  If you keep waiting for the 'perfect' time, it will never come.  Life is not perfect.  That is not to say that there are not wrong times to have kids. 

It is an emotional decision, and a logical one.  However, this is one of those times where emotion comes first.  It is like deciding to marry someone.  You don't go in with logic and then decide, hell I am going to love this person.  You fall in love with someone, keep loving them and then think about the logic of marrying him.

I am of the mind that until you KNOW you want kids and you want them right then and there that it is not the right time.  I cannot imagine thinking back to the time that I decided to have my kid because of how a law school application turned out.  We KNEW we wanted kids.  I went off BC when we got engaged so that I would have all of the hormones out of my system by the time we were married.  Even with wanting to be pregnant with all of my heart, this ride is a roller coaster of extremes.  

Also, I do not consider 26/27 young on the having kids spectrum.  As a woman, you fertility starts decreasing around age 27. 

desertsun

I think that everyone makes decisions differently, and it's no one's place to judge whether there is/isn't enough emotion/logic. Bottom line, everyone has to do what is right for them, not what's right for the other people on a message board.

That is not to say that Mutley, Jeana, et al. do not have good points. B/c we all know the ladies on this board are smart and give good advice. Fertility may decrease starting around 27, and incidence of health problems in mothers and babies increases around age 35. That doesn't make someone's decision to wait until 32 or 38 invalid. It's a personal choice.

**Mutley**

It is a very personal choice.  One that gets to be discussed/ judged when she livejournals about it on here.  It also sounds like she has no clue what is right for her.  Hence, the livejournal post. 

I was just noting that 27 is not a 'young' age to have a kid.  If she were to say 22, then yes that is on the younger end. 

People can judge DH and I because we got pregnant 2 months after we were married.  That is fine.  People are going to judge whatever decision you make - be it logical or emotional.  However, I strongly feel that having a baby goes well beyond a logical decision because it is a human being that needs love and nurturing and rarely follows any sort of logical plan.  (I am not saying that IF you are a logical person you cannot love/nurture a baby.)

emmyroo

I'd also add that kids are FOREVER.  Once you become a mom, you can't go back, even after they turn 18.  You don't get to just be engaged or just be married once you become a parent.  You have to be married or engaged AND a parent.  For the rest of your life.  It's for this reason that BF and I have already agreed that we both don't want to have kids until at least 3-5 years after we get married.  I love kids and I am looking forward to being a parent someday, but there's a right and a wrong time as well as the right and wrong reasons.  I'm questioning if you want this for the right reasons, especially emotionally.

oceana919

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_baby-question-again?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:307fb811-088b-48b8-aece-f919c964b3f7Post:0cf51298-db4a-437c-a5e7-945019adaa80">Re: the baby question again.</a>:
[QUOTE]Now, Oceana...  DH and I keep joking that at least a baby can wear a diaper.  Potty training during one of the worst rainy seasons this area has seen in over 100 years has been 'interesting.'
Posted by **Mutley**[/QUOTE]

Very true...what I meant was that you create a pros/cons list for buying a house or getting a dog, not having a kid.

**Mutley**

I know.  I poking some fun.  Me? No. Never.

katanne9

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_baby-question-again?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:307fb811-088b-48b8-aece-f919c964b3f7Post:d18b9683-0692-4137-b815-5a6676240d07">Re: the baby question again.</a>:
[QUOTE] I am of the mind that until you KNOW you want kids and you want them right then and there that it is not the right time.
Posted by **Mutley**[/QUOTE]

This. If you don't KNOW... WAIT.

Would you marry someone if you felt this way about him? I hope not. Both are lifetime commitments.

Acrosthec

Taking a page out of Ana's book (I thought the same thing about the journal entry/no question, but came back when I saw so many had responded), I'm going to try and break down your logic.


The plus side to having a baby:

We get to stay in Norway another year with his family and all our friends
Why can't you do this and NOT have a child?

We can save A LOT more money before starting school (salaries are high in Norway)
You will save more money if you do not have the expense of an infant than if you do

I will essentially get paid my first 6 months or so of law school, from the maternity money
This is just wrong.  Law school is expensive, I get it.  Been there, have the bills to prove it.  Conning Norway's government or your job or whomever into paying you maternity leave money and then using it for something other than caring for your child is downright awful in my eyes.  Not to mention this sounds like you're one of those people that just has kids to get the tax breaks in the US, whom I also despise.

My mom will provide free daycare
I'm confused, is your mom in Norway?  I thought she was in the States?  So how would this help with you having a child and staying in Norway, unless you were talking about later on when you're in law school.  She'll probably still provide it whenever you do have a child.  I doubt it's a limited time offer.  But law school is a 12-hour a day JOB, so be prepared for your mother to get easily aggravated with you dumping your kid on her the majority of every week, at least for the first year.

My child will be the same age as my sister in laws kid and best friends kid
And these are the last kids that are ever going to be born in your family that your kid can be friends with?  What if they hate each other?  People have babies all. the. time.  I'm sure someone in your neighborhood/group of friends will have another whenever you're ready (just for the record, I do NOT think that time is now).

Absolutely free health care
I'm assuming you mean in Norway, because that's not the case in the US.  Yes it's nice to have free healthcare, but again, it sounds like you're wanting to have a child solely to take advantage of the things Norway's government would offer to you, which again is wrong in my mind, and not a valid reason to have a child before you're ready.

THE US economy is awful, why leave Norway for the US this year when we have  good jobs here?
Then don't leave Norway.  I agree with you on the economy; it's terrible!  But just because you stay in Norway doesn't mean you HAVE to have a child right away.

the price of our condo is going up and will continue to rise (most likely) over the next year
Then stay in Norway to sell it once it goes up in value.  I don't see why this is a pro to having a child, unless of course, yet AGAIN you are using the child as an excuse to further your own goals/take advantage of the situation, which AGAIN is not a good reason to have a child.

The downside:
We are young still 26/27, but at least we have a stable, happy healthy relationship of 5+ years
26/27 is young to some people to have a child, to others not so much.  Regardless the length of your stable, happy relationship, things could always change.  Ask someone who's gone through a divorce or watched their parents go through one.  It's easier to protect the child's right when the parties are married.  Regardless I don't see your age being a con for having children as long as you're financially secure and know what you want in life (it doesn't seem you do).

Law school is not going to be easy with a child
I believe I've more than stated my opinions on you having a child while in law school, but let me put it more clearly.  THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY ON THE PLANET to make me think I would've passed law school while caring for an infant.  It just wouldn't have happened.

We would probably hold off on having a wedding ceremony until after the child 
As stated above, it's easier to protect the child's right when the parties are married.  There's less legal hassle with getting the child legitimized because it has a married couple as its parents.  I don't necessarily see why this is a con either though; plenty of people have children out of wedlock.  If it's between having a child or a wedding, and you don't know which you'd rather have more, then you are not ready to have a child.

I don't see why you're stressing out about this.  I will be almost 29 when we get married, and we're not trying for children until after the wedding, which means I likely won't have our first child until I'm 30, and that's IF we get pregnant rather quickly after the wedding. 

Granted I'm already done with law school, but there were plenty of people in my class in their 30s and 40s that were going back to school.  Law school is not something that's going to go away - you can always go back to school. 

Likewise with having a child.  The option won't always be there, but it will for a while!  It's not something you have to do RIGHT NOW or else you'll miss your chance.  I don't see what the problem is in finding out about your scholarship status, getting married, starting school, and having a child going into your third year (when law school is pretty much a joke).  As far as plans go, that one seems a lot more normal to me, and far less stressful.

oceana919

[QUOTE]I know.  I poking some fun.  Me? No. Never. [/QUOTE]

No, never. Apparently you're just stabby because your preggo and everyone <em>worships</em> you. lol

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_baby-question-again?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:307fb811-088b-48b8-aece-f919c964b3f7Post:5920561c-3b40-48a6-8d5b-2d33eed2524b">Re: the baby question again.</a>:
[QUOTE]It is a very personal choice.   One that gets to be discussed/ judged when she livejournals about it on here.  Posted by **Mutley**[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. We certainly can judge, since she decided to journal publicly.

I maintain however that there is nothing inherently wrong in people making decisions in different ways.

I personally would probably think having a baby through in a very methodical and analytical way. B/c that's the way I deal with my emotions and making decisions that have an emotional component.

In fact, it's wise to think about your financial situation, other things going on in your life such as school, childcare, work, etc, just as Norway has.

However, I would never decide to have a child just b/c of practical reasons. And I understand what people are saying about the impression Norway created by not talking about an actual desire to love and nurture a tiny human being.

I agree that every child deserves to be truly and deeply wanted, and that is the most important aspect of the decision.

**Mutley**

I never said to have a child willy nilly without going through the logical aspects of it.  I just maintain that the emotional part is the most important part (like you said.)  You go through the emotional and THEN the logical.  Even you, a logical person, are saying that you deal with your emotions by analyzing.  It is the lack of emotion that I find incredibly disturbing. 

I am sure that Norway will come back in a couple of days and say that we are all completely off-base.  Like she does for almost every journal entry that she makes.  She always tries to reason her way out. 

I think that Ana and Acro got to the heart of the matter in a very logical way. 

kismo

weren't you just bitching in a different post how you aren't engaged yet? now you are wanting a baby.....what is this MTV true life I'm fucking insane?

Button5807

i think desert had a good point about her not wanting to actually leave norway.

Acrosthec

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_baby-question-again?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:307fb811-088b-48b8-aece-f919c964b3f7Post:638c5cf4-2bd3-4917-81a5-9c9add31de5e">the baby question again.</a>:
[QUOTE]SO........ I will either start law school this fall or fall 2011. If I start in fall 11, we want to have a baby first.  (In Norway I will get a full years salary for maternity leave). We want kids, and since we will be leaving Norway feel we should try to take advantage of the opportunity. Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]

I got so caught up in the pro/con list I missed the part where you think you're fertile myrtle and can just get pregnant whenever you feel like it.  My bad.

[QUOTE]Well my maternal clock has not started to kick.Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]
 
Then you aren't ready.

[QUOTE]But to be honest, I feel it might be easier to have a child now, take 6 month maternity leave in NOrway and start school with a six month year old. Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't have a child now just because it's "easier" you should have one because you want one.  And no, a six month old INFANT is not that much "easier" to deal with than a 6 day old infant.  In fact, from the experience we're seeing with our godchildren, it gets HARDER as they get older.

[QUOTE]Another alternative is to try to work in Norway to save money then go to the US with no baby. But my job is so draining, I dont think thats reason enough to stay in Norway, if I were on maternity leave for half that year though, that would be better. Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]

So your job is so draining that you don't want to work it, but you think being up all hours with an infant will be easier?  Have you ever *been around* an infant?

[QUOTE]Thank God I have a mom who well help with daycare, it really makes having a baby an option.Posted by Norway_T[/QUOTE]

No, no it doesn't.  Now you're using your mom instead of the poor child.  Or in addition to the child.  Your pick.