What The F is the Matter With (Some) Teens?!

wink0erin

When I was growing up being grounded meant "no you can't go outside to play" which was COMPLETE TORTURE to me.

I was only grounded or spanked a few times growing up, really just the stern voice got me to quit acting up or decide to never repeat what I just did. I really wanted to please my parents, so knowing they were upset with me made me want to do right. 

I don't remember ever being rude to my parents in public, and I wasn't doing that because I feared what would happen, I just respected them.

BUTTTTTT... even though I was raised properly, I still went through a snarky/rebellious phase in my late teens. Most arguments were about my friends and my need for independence.

I didn't get out of the snark phase until I moved into an apartment when I was 20, and pretty much immediately became close with my parents again. 

wink0erin

That said... I think RWS is right that we probably notice the bad interactions more than the good ones. I'd say for every spoiled rotten child there are a handful of good kids. It's just we notice the bad ones a lot more now that we're older.

It always upsets me when I notice a parent is properly disciplining their child and others give judgemental stares or make judgemental comments. At the grocery store a child was acting up and throwing a tantrum, and nothing the mother did would get the child to quiet down... so, she went to the checkout and ignored. Kid finally stopped crying once he wasn't getting a reacton out of mom anymore. When I got outside a woman randomly commented to me how terrible that child was, and I told her to shutup and quit being judgemental. She looked shocked. Seriosuly the whole incident was maybe 5 minutes. 

When I worked at a mall kiosk at Christmas I saw a child RUN through a crowd to get to the ride-on toys... and I saw a mother running after the child shortly after. When she got to him she grabbed his arm, swatted his rear once (not hard... more like a firm pat) and told him to never run away in public like that. He started crying as she walked him to the exit of the mall. A customer at my kiosk said "I can't believe that woman just hit her child in public!" Like... seriously? If I ran through a crowd like that my mother would have done the same thing.

Simply Fated

RWS, I just listed adjectives. I never implied they meant the same things. But you gave me the definition of what strong-willed means and actually sugar coated it. How come? There is nothing wrong with using words like obnoxious, spoiled, and stubborn in front if your kids. I'm not into using positive sounding words just for the sake of sheltering kids. Sugarcoating makes things sound like they aren't as bad as they are. Ever think that kids who don't think they're brats don't think they are because they hear their parents say things like, "Suzie is not brat, she is just... -fill in sugar coated word here-."

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_f-matter-teens?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:8c53fd1c-e1e1-47f6-8b69-2d91d45e368ePost:1f5d20a4-6852-4a47-91d8-6233ecbf0cf1">Re: What The F is the Matter With (Some) Teens?!</a>:
[QUOTE]RWS, I just listed adjectives. I never implied they meant the same things. But you gave me the definition of what strong-willed means and actually sugar coated it. How come? There is nothing wrong with using words like obnoxious, spoiled, and stubborn in front if your kids. I'm not into using positive sounding words just for the sake of sheltering kids. Sugarcoating makes things sound like they aren't as bad as they are. Ever think that kids who don't think they're brats don't think they are because they hear their parents say things like, "Suzie is not brat, she is just... -fill in sugar coated word here-."
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>The way you listed those words DID imply that they were similar in meaning, even if you did not explicitly state that was your intent. </div><div>
</div><div>Children are not animals to be trained to be obedient and never have their own opinions or ideas.</div><div>
</div><div>They simply need to be taught that they cannot always have everything they want when they want it and that there are consequences to their actions.</div><div>
</div><div>I think a lot of people here are saying essentially the same thing here in different ways.</div><div>
</div><div>
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Simply Fated

"The way you listed those words DID imply that they were similar in meaning, even if you did not explicitly state that was your intent." What? I literally just listed adjectives I saw in this thread. I wrote... I love how people use words like "sassy" and "spirited" when referring to their OWN children. Another good one is, "strong-willed." Meanwhile, everyone else uses words like, spoiled, bratty, obnoxious, defiant, and demon spawn. Where did you get that I defined "strong willed" as spoiled? I listed strong willed last and spoiled first. Both list are clearly random. It doesn't even make sense that you or RWS would think I was listing definitions following a list of words, since I have 3 "parent" words and 5 other words.

RWS2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_f-matter-teens?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:8c53fd1c-e1e1-47f6-8b69-2d91d45e368ePost:421f3ef8-7ab4-4a59-a319-b6bb11596789">Re: What The F is the Matter With (Some) Teens?!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What The F is the Matter With (Some) Teens?! :  Children are not animals to be trained to be obedient and never have their own opinions or ideas. They simply need to be taught that they cannot always have everything they want when they want it and that there are consequences to their actions. 
Posted by desertsun[/QUOTE]

<div>THIS!</div><div>
</div><div>Simply Fated, there was nothing sugar coated about my above post, and I actually defined spirited, not strong willed.  Now, I am not claiming to be a perfect parent and I have my moments where I focus on negatives, but our role as parents is to guide development, not judge behavior.  There is nothing wrong with addressing the specific behavior or problem rather than slapping a label on it, like brat.  </div><div>For instance, if my daughter does not want to do her bedtime jobs and starts whining, I could call her a brat and nothing changes except that now she is upset and hurt at being labeled.  On the other hand, I could say, "I know you would like to have time for a story before bed, so you need to listen and get your jobs done.  Then we will have time to read together."  Now, she is able to get on with the business of doing what she is supposed to do.  </div><div>It is analogous to getting into an argument with a friend or boyfriend and being called a b*#ch, versus having the other party just say what is upsetting them.  For the record, those kids pitching fits and getting what they want at stores are probably called brats by their parents, but their parents are not doing the work to address the "bratty behavior."  Rather than sugar coating, my post was more solution oriented about the whole issue of children being disrespectful and what parents can and should be doing about it.</div>

dwest2201

RWS, you sound like a very wise mother. 

As most of you know, I am the mother of an almost 5 year old who has a ton of energy, but thankfully is very polite and loving.  He gets out of line from time to time and tries to whine sometimes, but I stay calm and talk to him.  Also, if there was a rule or plan ahead of time we stick to it.  I too believe that consistency and discipline are the key to your child knowing that you are the boss and respecting you.  We have talks, a lot of them and he mostly sits in time out or doesn't get to play something that he wanted to if he gets into a pouting or whining fit.  I try to explain things well to him, both expectations ahead of time as well as the consequences of his behavior.  I think that is the most important part about shaping the behavior of a young child.  I am not just disciplining him to get him to do what I want...I am trying to teach him why he needs to listen to me, do certain things, etc.  For example, I have a few friends who have issues with their children taking off their seatbelt while driving.  My son took his seatbelt off once in the driveway and I parked the car and got in the back seat and we had a very serious talk about how the seatbelt must be on until the car is parked for his safety.  We talked for a couple minutes and he knew that I was serious and concerned.  It has never been an issue since. 

As for bratty kids, bad parents and good kids, good parents.  I believe that most people, specifically those who don't have children or interact with young children at least, only notice the bad.  For example, when we go out my 4 year old orders his meal very politely.  Example:  The waitress at Skyline looks at me and asks what he wants and I say, I don't know ask him.  So she does.  "Umm, I think I will have my usual, that's a hot doggy platter, but I want mine with the dogs on the plate with the cheese on top and no bun."  And to drink, "Umm, I would like a Sierra Mist today, please".  If it's someone who has/interacts with young children they usually ask his name and age, etc.  If it's someone who doesn't they kind of roll their eyes that I let him do that and it took a whole 30 seconds longer than me ordering for him.  When they bring the food he always says "Thank you".  The staff and strangers at multiple places have come up and told me that he is so polite, etc.

Just the other day while laminating some playdoh mats that my son had accidentally ripped up at Kinko's I was talking to B about them and how he was sorry and sad they were ripped I was saying it's okay, accidents happen that's why we came here to fix them.  Meanwhile he wanted some of the candy they had, I said no I'm sorry we are going to have dinner soon and you still have a bowl of Halloween and Christmas candy, remember?  He said "I know but I'm really hungry, mommy".  I told him that he could pick either gum or chips to have after dinner.  He said okaaaaaaaaaaay and picked, then asked me to open it.  I said, You silly goose!  We still didn't eat dinner yet, and we didn't pay for them either.  He laughed and said "OH YEAH"...what are we having for dinner?"  During this whole exchange there was a man that was working near us and I had to ask B to please move over out of his way a couple times, B always did quickly and said "oops, sorry".  The man was smiling, I could tell he though that B was cute.  As he was finishing up he stopped and said to me "You are really good with him", I said thanks and went back to working on my stuff.  He said "Seriously, as a father of 3 and a grandfather of 5 I know it isn't easy and you are so calm and he is happily listening and behaving so well, it's great to see".  By this point I was blushing and thanked him and said that meant a lot.

As for spanking, I do not think that spanking is wrong, or abuse, so long as it is an open hand on the butt, only. That was the standard for what was okay, at least here in Ohio when I was taking some ECE classes, nearly a decade ago.  Any paddle, belt, etc is overkill and you can really do more hurt than you intend.  Also, if you plan to spank you need to allow a cool off period whether thats 30 seconds or 3 minutes depends on the person, hauling off and hitting your child while yelling at them in a fit of rage is abuse, IMO. 

I was spanked and hit, and while I was a very well behaved kid I also feared my mom and step-dad to some degree.  When I was a teen I talked back, nothing like calling my mother names, though.  I believe that my parents did okay, but that I could have been disciplined in better ways.

beanbot2002

I think pretty much every mom has hit on a point I was going to make, so I won't. (Beautifully stated moms.) All I'm gonna add here is: Geezo flip, parenting is hard! It kicks my arse day in and day out.