Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion

stacem24

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:fb072080-c081-44ef-a7ee-2c7af981fc45">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]So you've just been spending money - $15,000 worth - without asking your FI for his input? You realize you're marrying him, not yourself, right? You should go back in time and sit down with him and create a budget. 
Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]

Ummm... No I haven't been just "spending money". He's provided his input as to what he wants and doesm't want. He just hasn't offered to help with any of the costs.

ZiggyZos

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:dd07c7bb-47f2-47c1-aad4-01c6be63f239">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion : Ooookay...This is a pretty mean group. For one, I don't expect anyone to pay for the wedding for US. I was just making it clear that I was taking care of it myself. I agree that it is probably my fault that we didn't discuss a budget in the first place but I figured that at some point he would at least offer to cover something small. That's the least you could do as a man for you OWN wedding that your fiance is paying for. I talk with him about everything that we need. Y'all are right though. It is bigger than the wedding. We've been together for five years and he moved in my house the first year we were together. He lived with me for free and didn't offer to pay any bills or help with the mortgage. Although I didn't need help with any of the bills, I just figured that he, as a man, wouldn't feel comfortable mootching off a woman and offer to help. I don't know what I need to communicate about that. I thought it was the norm to offer to help out with something that you are taking part in. You don't have to be a mind reader to know what's right. I agree with the pre-marital counseling and we have it scheduled for next month. Thank you all for the advice.
Posted by stacem24[/QUOTE]

You have a terribly sexist viewpoint and I personally find it very off putting, even as a woman. "As a man" he should be helping you pay bills? You're making more money and were living on your own without his assistance prior to him moving in - why should he expect that you suddenly want him to pay, especially if you admittedly didn't need help AND never said anything about it?

As for it "being the norm to help out with something you are taking part in"? I've never paid a bill in our household. Ever. Why? Because H is the breadwinner. AND we, you know, discussed our finances like adults before moving in together and deciding to get married and have kids. If that is in reference to planning/paying for the wedding: you've asked his input on things, so clearly he IS helping out. He just isn't meeting your expectations for financial assistance, which is just odd since you, you know, share a home, bills, etc. and have never actually discussed it with him.

You talk with him about everything that you need? How about talking to him about the things that you have and the things that you want? How about discussing joint finances (because, again, your money will be his money too when you are married, like it or not)? How about discussing a wedding budget before dropping $15,000? How about having an adult conversation with the father if your child and your future husband about household and relationship "expectations" (though I think it is silly that you expect him to read your mind and just "know" what you think is his proper role "as a man")?

Good luck in premarital counseling. You need it.

ZiggyZos

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:f28b9db3-cc0b-4a06-82ec-47a083518944">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]I know I'm straight, but I wanna marry OP so she can spend $15k on a PPD for us.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]



You forgot all of the bills/expenses for living together for the last four or so years... Sweet deal!

MuppetOverlord

It bothers me that people might be harsh or too assuming on this board sometimes, but you are posting on an open forum and asking for advice and I think your problem is that the feedback isn't what you were expecting.

What I've learned from sifting through posts the past week or two, is that more often than not, you learn something from what people say. Did everyone get it wrong? Or Did you?

Here's my perspective on your OP:

I make twice as much as FI and he already contributes as much as he can to our living expenses for the most part and I know that. We discussed this early on.

I'm paying for 90% of our wedding . I'm paying for my master's as I go, I just paid the entire dp on our house and bought our appliances etc...He could contribute more if we waited another year -or- I would bare the financial responsibility of the wedding. He left that for me do decide since it would affect me more. I chose to proceed. He is giving me his tax return. We are putting our honeymoon on our disney credit card that has 0% interest for 6 months and he is going to help me pay for that after the wedding. I did flip out a tiny bit when he paid $60 for some red sox lego characters a few weeks ago because I'm paying for so much...but he responded by trying to put a little more away for us.

My point is that yeah, one person in many relationships makes more and pays for more....but there should be communication about it - lots....and decisions should be made about it.

You are going to get married, you've been living together, you have a child together, it's time to set the framework for the foundation in which you'll spend the rest of your marriage. If you need him to contribute more, be more supportive, or thoughtful...you need to talk to him about it.

I hope this helps.

zantster

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:48375bb1-db6b-4a2a-977d-1835aaa8977c">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion : Look the guy you've chosen to shack up with so to speak to have a child with and to marry is not the kind of guy that cares about carrying his own weight.  That was clear from the day he moved in with you and didn't even offer to pay any of the bills.  You should have kicked him to the curb then but you didn't. If you define a man as someone who will contribute and pay his own bills then don't marry someone you don't think of as a man.  You keep attacking his manhood.  That's not what a loving FI does.  If you want a man go find one.  You won't turn this guy into the man you want. You define "right" as someone who will jump in and offer to carry their own weight.  Not everyone defines it that way.  I think it's right to tell someone what you need from them instead of letting the anger fester over 5 years and then finally just blowing up.  Obviously you do not. So now please explain to me how it was right for you to let him move in without laying down your expectations for him ahead of time and now all of a sudden changing the deal on him.  He probably thought you both were happy with the situation as it currently is BECAUSE YOU NEVER OPENED YOUR MOUTH TO TELL HIM WHAT YOU WANT FROM HIM! If you're going to marry this guy you need to either change your expectations or start speaking up for yourself.  But be honest.  Do you want to marry a guy that doesn't have the qualities you use to define a man?  Do you want to marry someone that you define as a mooch?  Why?
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]
Yup, all of this.  Hopefully OP is waking up from a long sleep and beginning to realize that this is not the way she wants to spend the rest of her life.  I hope this is the case.  Because you could be spending the next 30-40 years of your life doing this and if you say "I do" you will have no one else to blame but yourself.  Is having his physical companionship worth the high price?  Because it appears you value his self-interest over your own self-interest, which never brings fulfillment if it's not reciprocated.  First of all since this is all on you, consider spending a couple hundred dollars for wedding insurance so if there are any losses from changing your mind or anything else you can recoup what you spent.  Then do some soul searching on whether this is what you want.  If not, then like Linger said you can toss the idea of changing him after 5 years.  But you can definitely get a fresh start with someone who willingly and happily will be an equal partner instead of another dependent. 

AddieCake

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:dd07c7bb-47f2-47c1-aad4-01c6be63f239">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion : Ooookay...This is a pretty mean group. For one, I don't expect anyone to pay for the wedding for US. I was just making it clear that I was taking care of it myself. I agree that it is probably my fault that we didn't discuss a budget in the first place but I figured that at some point he would at least offer to cover something small. That's the least you could do as a man for you OWN wedding that your fiance is paying for. I talk with him about everything that we need. Y'all are right though. It is bigger than the wedding. <strong>We've been together for five years and he moved in my house the first year we were together. He lived with me for free and didn't offer to pay any bills or help with the mortgage. Although I didn't need help with any of the bills, I just figured that he, as a man, wouldn't feel comfortable mootching off a woman and offer to help. </strong>I don't know what I need to communicate about that. I thought it was the norm to offer to help out with something that you are taking part in. You don't have to be a mind reader to know what's right. I agree with the pre-marital counseling and we have it scheduled for next month. Thank you all for the advice.
Posted by stacem24[/QUOTE]

<div>If this has been the norm in your relationship from the start, I'm not sure why you're surprised he didn't offer to pay for any of the wedding. I'm unsure why you would commit to marry a man who you think is mooching off of you. </div>

stacem24

I just wanted him to offer to pay for something. I paid for the bulk of the wedding and we have a few minor expenses left. A simple "I'll get the baby's dress" or "I'll pay for they cake" would have made all of the difference to me. I would have felt like he was at least offering me some type of monetary relief since I've already done so much. He get's paid every two weeks too and he makes decent money. I've expressed to him that all I wanted was the offer. He would have let me pay for everything myself if I didn't ask for anything. I don't think that is right for a MAN or a WOMAN if you are working. I counldn't just sit there and watch my fiance pay for everything while I just sit on my paycheck. I honestly don't need any help but I was just hoping that he would feel that should offer the help since it is his wedding too. I see though,from everyone's strong opinions, that he is not wrong for not offering to help and he is not selfish. I asked for opinions and I got it.   

zantster

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:c10c5fe3-2f42-4104-b9c4-e5ac1e8f0403">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion : You misunderstand us.  No one is saying he's not selfish.  He probably is very selfish.  We're simply saying this is who he is.  This is who he's been since you met him.  You can't expect him to make changes without talking to him. Honestly I wouldn't marry a guy like this.  I want my husband to be a loving caring generous person so I found someone who had those qualities.  I recommend you do the same. You don't have to answer here but what do you see in him?  Be honest with yourself.  You've listed a lot of reasons NOT to marry him.  Do you have any reasons TO marry him other than he's the father of your child and you've been with him for so long?
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]
Please listen to Linger.  I'm not sure how you got the message from PPs that he's right and you're wrong.  What we're saying is that in life you tend to get what you pay for.  You have been paying for what amounts to a lump of coal so that's what you got.  If you don't want it get rid of it.  You have every right to want and expect something better.  But you've got to woman up and make it happen.  If not, you'll be miserable.  End of story.

Maggie0829

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:735072b1-5854-4848-832a-a9902d80e254">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE]I just wanted him to offer to pay for something. I paid for the bulk of the wedding and we have a few minor expenses left. A simple "I'll get the baby's dress" or "I'll pay for they cake" would have made all of the difference to me. I would have felt like he was at least offering me some type of monetary relief since I've already done so much. He get's paid every two weeks too and he makes decent money. I've expressed to him that all I wanted was the offer. He would have let me pay for everything myself if I didn't ask for anything. I don't think that is right for a MAN or a WOMAN if you are working. I counldn't just sit there and watch my fiance pay for everything while I just sit on my paycheck. I honestly don't need any help but I was just hoping that he would feel that should offer the help since it is his wedding too. I see though,from everyone's strong opinions, that he is not wrong for not offering to help and he is not selfish. I asked for opinions and I got it.   
Posted by stacem24[/QUOTE]


OP, you are just as much at fault here as your FI is.  You have allowed him to mooch off you for years.  Why do you think that just because you are getting married this will change?  You need to stop wedding planning and start having serious conversations about money because when you get married the money won't be split as "his" and "hers" it will become combined and be considered "our" money.

I understand that you want him to feel a certain way, but just because you want him to do something doesn't mean that he will unless you talk to him.  People are not mind readers.  He probably has no idea that the money thing has been eating away at you for years.  He probably thinks this is the way you want it.  If you haven't led him to believe differently then he will continue to think this way.

Put the wedding on hold and get some counseling because you are on track to destruction if you don't.  Marrying him won't change a damn thing.

MuppetOverlord

I see though,from everyone's strong opinions, that he is not wrong for not offering to help and he is not selfish. I asked for opinions and I got it.  

That's a defensive response...and it's not what anyone suggested either. I understand the response, I'd feel the same way initially. You have some tough criticism about your relationship suggesting that perhaps this isn't the man you want to marry because of the way you've told us he's acted through your relationship. You have the power to control this...and I think you deserve better for your life and child's.

I know you have a child with this man, but my experience is that people don't normally change and that you should accept them for the way they are now or move on (regardless of whether you have a child). You seem to be indicating that you've been accepting it for years and will continue to beacause you have the means. I DID THAT! I married a nice guy but a very selfish guy who never gave back or thought about me. He promised change but it never happened. I thought I could handle that forever and after a year, I realized I didn't want that for my life.

At the very least, I would suggest postponing the wedding until you can work out these issues. I wish that someone told me it was okay not to get married when I had these questions arise.

renegade gaucho

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_selfish-groom-i-need-someones-opinion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:69893bb3-c4a2-4a3e-ad7e-00285615ae72Post:735072b1-5854-4848-832a-a9902d80e254">Re: Selfish Groom - I need someone's opinion</a>:
[QUOTE] I counldn't just sit there and watch my fiance pay for everything while I just sit on my paycheck. 
Posted by stacem24[/QUOTE]

Your fiance obviously feels differently.  Because he is selfish.  I'm not sure why you're getting angry with internet strangers over your choice to stay with, procreate with, and marry a selfish person who so blatantly uses you for a free ride.  Really, five years and and a child into this?  The whole point of dating is that you can choose to end the relationship if it's not what you want.  I don't think counseling is going to turn your fiance into a different person.

zitiqueen

You just go ahead with the wedding. Once you each say the words "I do" and you slide that ring on his finger, he'll completely change.