Current Events - WDYT?

LessThanZero

"A man in San Francisco is proposing a measure that would make it illegal for parents to circumcise their baby boys.

The initiative would make it a misdemeanor to circumcise, excise, cut or mutilate the genitals of a minor under 18, punishable with a fine of up to $1,000 or up to one year in jail."

(Full link)

Let's talk about this.

ETA:  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/11/14/2010-11-14_san_francisco_may_propose_to_ban_circumcision_next_year_measure_would_outlaw_gen.html

Anysunrise

I think making it illegal is a bit of an overreaction, but I agree that it's a fairly useless proceedure with no real benefits.

Anysunrise

Also, that link doesn't work.

zippityb

I have known two UC guys in my life. They both got circumcised later on because of health issues (kept getting infections), and they said it was painful. If I had a little boy, I'd have it done when he was a baby so he wouldn't have to remember the procedure.

SarahPLiz

Wow. Well there goes at least all the Jews in SF. While I admit that a general ban on the genital mutilation of infants (or any non-consenting person) seems like common sense, there are widely accepted religious beliefs at play here. 

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I haven't clicked the link yet but not anyone can just propose legislation.  "A man" can't do shiit to propose anything unless he's been elected to the state legislature.

Also, I don't think that would pass.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Okay yeah, the link doesn't work for me either.

Seriously though, that would never pass.  I have met people in life who think circumcision is barbaric, but honestly, I think it's a parental or religious/cultural preference.  I don't know any cut guys who lament "Ah, dammit, I SO WISH I had a foreskin."

[Deleted User]

I propose that every person who is wearing pants today has to send me $5.

K&J64

Being that many people do this for religious reasons, this is absurd and will not be passed. It's a quick procedure and has a minimal risk and many people believe is more "clean". I don't have nor do I like peen so I'm indifferent otherwise. Both my nephews I know were circumcised and I see no issue with my sis and BIL doing so, to each is own.

ETA: Circumcision also pretty much eliminates the risk of smegma which is the most disgusting thing I remember from sex ed in high school.

And also, should it then be illegal to pierce a baby girl's ears as well? B/c a lot of cultures do this, and while I don't care for the practice that's between then and their babies' earlobes.

SCBojangles1138

If circumsion is going to be done, I think it needs to be done early. Like PP said, that way they don't remember it. As a religous practice that has some potential benefits already mentioned, I think it should stay legal. However there are other mutilations that I think are common place elsewhere in the world - I do not think they should be acceptable here.

ohwhynot

I acknowledge and respect the religious tradition, but for me, there was no way in hell I'd chop off part of my son's penis.   A foreskin is part of his penis and he's been taught to "clean under the hood" when he bathes.  Men all over the world are uncut - it's the natural way to be. 

FWIW, the foreskin is fused to the penis for quite a while.  Circumcision involves more than just lopping off a loose piece of skin (which is bad enough - would you lop off your baby's earlobes?).  

LessThanZero

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:576bc8c9-c2aa-4e78-b18f-451503630dcc">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I propose that every person who is wearing pants today has to send me $5.
Posted by cew515[/QUOTE]

I immediately took my pants off so that I wouldn't have to pay up. Then I realized that I just gave you what you wanted. Pants-less posters.

NIce try cew.   ; )

Anysunrise

Dongs are weird. That is all.

ohwhynot

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:576bc8c9-c2aa-4e78-b18f-451503630dcc">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I propose that every person who is wearing pants today has to send me $5.
Posted by cew515[/QUOTE]

Ha!  I'm wearing a skirt.  Suck it, Cew!

K&J64

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:6b8b5f89-8104-47a9-a104-a197575cd5ee">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Current Events - WDYT? : Very interesting point. My mom took me to get my ears pierced when I was about 6 mos. old. I don't remember it, it wasn't a traumatic experience and now I get to wear pretty earrings that usually fall out and get lost all the time. But then that's a whole other topic.
Posted by LessThanZero[/QUOTE]

I mean it makes little girls scream bloody murder, and my mom would argue it's barbaric, I know it's not genitals, but it's still changing the child's body without it being aware enough to consent. It all has pros and cons. I didn't get my ears pierced until I was 12 and I remember how much that hurt, you don't. And really what man/young boy is going to voluntarily get his weenie snipped?

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:b974c7d0-a085-4ea3-a02b-a186677bf646">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I liken it to getting my child vaccinated. I am taking a precaution that will help prevent health problems in the future. <strong>And it can't be THAT bad, because so many men have had it done and still get to experience "woohoo" weiner feelings.</strong>
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

Apparently uncut men have greater sensitvity on the head.  Since the foreskin covers it most of the time, it's more sensitive during sex.  I've also read that it's easier to stay lubricated during sex because of the foreskin and that the sex can be better for the woman.  I've had two women friends confirm that sex is better and that certain other activities are easier with an uncut man.  I've never seen one myself.

SarahPLiz

FI is in the Anti-  camp. He sees no need to alter anything. He lived, and didn't have any issues. His kids will be fine. 

zippityb

If this ever went into law, so many penis cake pans would become obsolete.

NuggetBrain

They look funny.  That's the only thing I can add to this discussion. 

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:e0f75667-a9c9-48fa-a678-58c0a56761f6">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]If this ever went into law, so many penis cake pans would become obsolete.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

*Penis cake pan industry sees opportunity for growth and joins this guy's campaign*

zippityb

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:a34ed9ec-ea77-4938-9c24-16e6e9051809">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Current Events - WDYT? : *Penis cake pan industry sees opportunity for growth and joins this guy's campaign*
Posted by TheCranberry[/QUOTE]

*Landfills overflowing with inflatable penii*

KatyRoseM

Cut men may be less likely to get AIDS, as well as other STIs.  I don't really know how true it is, but its something to think about. 

Also there would have to be a religious exception. 

zippityb

In middle school, I tried to tell the gym teacher that running laps was "against my religion" but she didn't believe me. What a bigot.

aplatanada

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:b982eed6-f1be-4978-bb23-a2e543781eaf">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]Intentional pun from the article? "Voters in San Francisco aren't certain to get an opportunity to cut out circumcision ; Schofield needs to round up more than seven thousand signatures for the initiative to make it onto the ballot next November. " Haha. I think circumcision is unnecessary.  Teach boys to clean themselves properly, and there's no problem. <strong> I liken this to female genital mutilation.</strong>
Posted by TheCranberry[/QUOTE]

Except that there are proven health benefits to circumcision, such as the PP who mentioned reduced transmission risk of HIV and other STIs.  (If you're a public health nerd like me, you can read about it here:<u><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm"> link</a></u>.) FGM is mutilation for moral reasons alone.

FWIW, H is uncut and supports circumcision if we have a boy. I've been with both and can't tell a difference.

LessThanZero

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:70e07620-9e36-4aef-b3a3-83862db43034">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Current Events - WDYT? : I mean it makes little girls scream bloody murder, and my mom would argue it's barbaric, I know it's not genitals, but it's still changing the child's body without it being aware enough to consent. It all has pros and cons. I didn't get my ears pierced until I was 12 and I remember how much that hurt, you don't. And really what man/young boy is going to voluntarily get his weenie snipped?
Posted by kcullen37[/QUOTE]

I was agreeing with you about it being a good comparison and then just sharing that I had my ears pierced very young because you said infants or babies, not 12 year olds.

cupcakesfrosting

I am way Pro it. I've seen an uncut, SMELLED an uncut. It's not pleasant, especially if a man isn't prone to good hygeine.

I respect any parent who is willing to teach their son how to clean properly, I just would rather not have there be a risk for infection or anything.

Blueyed228

I will circumcise my sons. 

If it didnt have a health benefit, I doubt so many doctors would recommend it.  95% of my friends who did it to their sons did not do it for religious reasons.  They did it for health reasons.

I also think that since we cant get young boys to not pee on the toilet seat, I would imagine getting them to clean their peen correctly would be difficult.

Plus, what happens when they reach the age where they see their friends and notice that they are different?  That would be awkward in the locker room.

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:a46eb1c6-c86d-476d-8e71-12a592a4fcf3">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I will circumcise my sons.  If it didnt have a health benefit, <strong>I doubt so many doctors would recommend it.</strong>  95% of my friends who did it to their sons did not do it for religious reasons.  They did it for health reasons. I also think that since we cant get young boys to not pee on the toilet seat, I would imagine getting them to clean their peen correctly would be difficult. Plus, what happens when they reach the age where they see their friends and notice that they are different?<strong>  </strong>That would be awkward in the locker room.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>To the best of my knowledge, they don't, or at least, not collectively. Various medical associations have stated that there isn't sufficient data to prove it a distinct benefit over not doing it, and so it's entirely the parents' decision.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:89088196-9d29-474f-b215-74f98157dc73">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Current Events - WDYT? : To the best of my knowledge, they don't, or at least, not collectively. Various medical associations have stated that there isn't sufficient data to prove it a distinct benefit over not doing it, and so it's entirely the parents' decision.
Posted by Anysunrise[/QUOTE]

Well then I stand corrected.  I dont have a son so I only know what friends/family have told me.  They all got the advice to do it from their docs.  But a quick google search proved your point.  Doctors as a group do not advise either way.

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_current-events-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:2967cb7e-7da3-4219-b685-d5cd1c1de4a9Post:07e66500-4a0e-4079-bd47-7bbae00f0416">Re: Current Events - WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Current Events - WDYT? : Well then I stand corrected.  I dont have a son so I only know what friends/family have told me.  They all got the advice to do it from their docs.  But a quick google search proved your point.  Doctors as a group do not advise either way.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that individually a lot of doctors do. The US has like 80% of men circumcised, so people must get it from somewhere. Which I find crazy, I didn't think it was that popular. Worldwide it's only like 30%.</div>

LessThanZero

I looked into it a little bit online and found that throughout the lifetime, getting circumcised has more health benefits than not. And on the topic of pain, there are ways of handling it so it's the most comfortable with the baby.

Of course, there's always risks at the time of as with any kind of surgical procedure.

I think it's fine if parents do or do not choose to do this for their son, I just think it would be ridiculous to take that choice away and make it a criminal act.

There's a lot of good info here:

http://kidshealth.org/parent/system/surgical/circumcision.html