What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?

laurenclaire1386

I was legit asking about the government sponsored option. I'm pretty sure I've read that that's the plan if you can't afford a policy on your own. The government will provide you a low cost one. Again, I might be wrong about that.

musicalsunlight

Here's the thing. The fed govn't can't tell a state that they are compelled to obey a federal program when it is an area that the state has a right to regulate itself. Straight up. Commerce Clause 101. I don't see the issue here.

laurenclaire1386

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:a6110fc6-6135-4ed2-91d7-f80f8059e438">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Here's the thing. The fed govn't can't tell a state that they are compelled to obey a federal program when it is an area that the state has a right to regulate itself. Straight up. Commerce Clause 101. I don't see the issue here.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]<div>With you. </div><div>
</div><div>And thanks for the clarification Yaga. 

</div>

cheeseandrice

FORCING someone to pay for health insurance is ridiculous and such an over-reach of the government that I don't understand how anyone thinks it's ok.

I mean. I'm all for a complete overhaul of our health system. But forcing people to buy into the shittastic system that's already in place is stupid. But then again, that's exactly why the government is doing it. They have a great history of trying to bandaid things that require a far bigger solution.

Also, I like when LC comes to play.

dmiller9274

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:93c8d9fe-cdc8-4bad-82e0-f458d0203b82">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare? : Yes this.  I am under the impression that the IM could be overturned, but the rest of the Act will stand (not allowing insurers to turn down people with pre-existing conditions, no lifetime limits on coverage, allowing people up to age 26 to remain on their parents' coverage) - which is why rates will go up so much.<strong> I have a hard time myself seeing why it's unconstitutional because of my own opinions of the ACA.</strong>  (Thanks to my Health Policy and Management class I'm taking right now.  I know the ACA like the back of my hand at this point.)   No that's a lie - I can see both sides.  On one side - no one complains that car insurance is a legal requirement to drive a car.  But on the other side - no one says that you *have* to drive.  However, getting sick is not a choice.   I don't think the current system works at all, and it's a shame that the ACA could fall apart over this.  
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]
Under the commerce clause, congress has no authority to force people to buy insurance. It's pretty cut and dry

Blueyed228

Plus, name one Govt program that works and hasnt bankrupted itself.  Or been full of corruption.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:a6110fc6-6135-4ed2-91d7-f80f8059e438">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Here's the thing. The fed govn't can't tell a state that they are compelled to obey a federal program when it is an area that the state has a right to regulate itself. Straight up. Commerce Clause 101. I don't see the issue here.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]

Yup.

laurenclaire1386

My overall sentiment on the healthcare system is that healthcare is a service, provided by one human being to another, in exchange for money. It is not a right. If it requires the participation of another person, and that person expects to be paid for performing the service (and it makes no difference to me who is shelling out the dough), then it is not a right. And therefore the government has no reason to make sure we all receive it. 

mica178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:2ce2f980-9cbb-4b4c-96f6-c55f16272c6e">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]FORCING someone to pay for health insurance is ridiculous and such an over-reach of the government that I don't understand how anyone thinks it's ok. I mean.<strong> I'm all for a complete overhaul of our health system. But forcing people to buy into the shittastic system that's already in place is stupid.</strong> But then again, that's exactly why the government is doing it. They have a great history of trying to bandaid things that require a far bigger solution. Also, I like when LC comes to play.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

<div>Amen, sister.</div>

maratea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:c9aac3f8-6aa4-40b7-a02a-09460875a70a">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]My overall sentiment on the healthcare system is that healthcare is a service, provided by one human being to another, in exchange for money. It is not a right. If it requires the participation of another person, and that person expects to be paid for performing the service (and it makes no difference to me who is shelling out the dough), then it is not a right. And therefore the government has no reason to make sure we all receive it. 
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]
You said this much less assholey than I was going to say. I'll just let you speak for me. :)

musicalsunlight

Courts have held health care as a traditionally state regulated area and so I don't see where they can rule that this is going to fit in the Commerce Clause even with the interstate commerce being affected. It kind of pisses me off that people don't understand this or that people are trying to read the CC as meaning something different.

NicoleSahara

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:c9aac3f8-6aa4-40b7-a02a-09460875a70a">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]My overall sentiment on the healthcare system is that healthcare is a service, provided by one human being to another, in exchange for money. It is not a right. If it requires the participation of another person, and that person expects to be paid for performing the service (and it makes no difference to me who is shelling out the dough), then it is not a right. And therefore the government has no reason to make sure we all receive it. 
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I've agreed with everything you've said on this so far. Also, hi!

cheeseandrice

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:c09d897d-05d5-4946-86c2-2872e672e1c0">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Plus, name one Govt program that works and hasnt bankrupted itself.  Or been full of corruption.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

SOCIAL SECURITY. DUH blue. Everyone knows that's a flawless program.

Sadly, I've heard many an argument in favor of SS as an 'example of how well the government can run a program.' Even though, you know, it sucks, and will be completely out of money before it can repay people who are paying into it.

laurenclaire1386

Hi!

And Mara, I love every one of your Ron Swanson sigs. I have to get one. I'm so sad they're on break right now. 

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:bdabf235-8705-4c10-add0-459bc2b05c09">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare? : You said this much less assholey than I was going to say. I'll just let you speak for me. :)
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

Im pretty much nodding to myself at everything LC is saying in this thread.

cheeseandrice

Question about the commerce clause, because I think I've heard this brought up before.  What if there was a company in WI selling a policy I wanted. If I want to buy it in MN, would that not be allowed in order to maintain it as a 'state issue'?

Wasn't that part of this argument at one point? That in order to keep the fed out, no insurance could be sold across state lines?

ETA: and how does that work with car insurance? AND not every state mandates car insurance right? or is that a fed thing too?

maratea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:99bff12f-db30-4b13-a2d2-438456c759da">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi! And Mara, I love every one of your Ron Swanson sigs. I have to get one. I'm so sad they're on break right now. 
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]
I know. I've been watching old episodes on Netflix to hold me over. Ron Swanson is my dream husband, lol. I think H would be ok with it seeing as how he has a huge mancrush on him.

NuggetBrain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:a61ce4a1-f94d-4ba5-a974-37b88e1371e3">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Your sig is wonderful Nuggs.
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

Thanks gurl. ;)

NuggetBrain

Going off my gut feeling, I don't quite understand how having someone mandated to have health insurance would work unless there was free universal healthcare available.  Because as long as there's a cost, you're requiring that the person spend their own money on something government run (other than taxes in general) and I'm not sure that's kosher.

Blueyed228

Nuggs- I think its the federal part that is setting people off.  If every state decided to mandate it, then fine.  But I dont think the federal govt should be telling the states what to do in regards to this.

And I say this while living in a state where we are required to have insurance.

cheeseandrice

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:4940df20-59f5-451f-bc6c-66203b5d1e2a">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Going off my gut feeling, I don't quite understand how having someone mandated to have health insurance would work unless there was free universal healthcare available.  <strong>Because as long as there's a cost, you're requiring that the person spend their own money on something government run (other than taxes in general) and I'm not sure that's kosher.</strong>
Posted by NuggetBrain[/QUOTE]

Devil's Advocate, but how is that any different than anything else the government decides to spend your tax money on? You're still forced to pay for that too.

dmiller9274

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:8c64b34f-b4d2-4a28-b09c-6e25155e31f1">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]Question about the commerce clause, because I think I've heard this brought up before.  What if there was a company in WI selling a policy I wanted. If I want to buy it in MN, would that not be allowed in order to maintain it as a 'state issue'? Wasn't that part of this argument at one point? That in order to keep the fed out, no insurance could be sold across state lines? ETA: and how does that work with car insurance? AND not every state mandates car insurance right? or is that a fed thing too?
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]
The commerce clause basically says that the federal government can only use the power that is given to it in the constitution. IMO no where in the constitution does it state that government is responsible for health insurance, so I think they need to stay the fuuck out of it all together. But I'm not exactly sure how that <em>really</em> works when you cross a state line with a non-tangible good. 

musicalsunlight

Steph I'm not 100% sure but it seems like the courts have said that they don't consider insurance a substantially affected interstate commerce issue, which is why the fed should not regulate it. I don't really know much about state laws governing insurance so I can't say anything to that. I need to research it.

NuggetBrain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:b7d02bec-2124-4065-ba15-35ff819f3515">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare? : Devil's Advocate, but how is that any different than anything else the government decides to spend your tax money on? You're still forced to pay for that too.
Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but that's ideally going towards furthering the nation as a whole.  Paying for things like roads and the police and education and sh*t that everybody uses and needs to use. 

Blueyed228

Or rather, I live in a state where you are required to have insurance if you can afford to buy it.  If you cant afford it, they provide it for you.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:c9aac3f8-6aa4-40b7-a02a-09460875a70a">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]My overall sentiment on the healthcare system is that healthcare is a service, provided by one human being to another, in exchange for money. It is not a right. If it requires the participation of another person, and that person expects to be paid for performing the service (and it makes no difference to me who is shelling out the dough), then it is not a right. And therefore the government has no reason to make sure we all receive it. 
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]


But okay - and I understand this - but if you break your leg and go to the ER, they have to treat you, yes?  They can't just be like "Oh you can't pay, see ya," and send you on your way.  So then who pays?  To me that sort of system says that people do have a right to health care. 

musicalsunlight

Ok maybe this makes what I said more clear (from the court of appeals opinion):

"Indisputably, the health insurance and health care industries involve, and substantially affect, interstate commerce, and Congress can regulate broadly in both those realms. Nonetheless, Congress, in exercising its commerce authority, must be careful not to sweep too broadly by including within the ambit of its regulation activities that bear an insufficient nexus with interstate commerce."

cheeseandrice

I could go back to my Social Security example then, Nuggs. That ain't doing shiit for me, but I still have to 'buy' that retirement option. You know, the one that won't exist when it's time for my payout.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:a6635476-bd41-4245-90de-1f33516fff32">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare? : But okay - and I understand this - but if you break your leg and go to the ER, they have to treat you, yes?  They can't just be like "Oh you can't pay, see ya," and send you on your way.  So then who pays?  To me that sort of system says that people do have a right to health care. 
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

They already have the right to be treated, but they also have the responsiblity to pay for it.

maratea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-do-you-think-is-going-to-happen-with-obamacare?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:64e8501a-17f1-4590-aedc-fbcbac8d111ePost:a6635476-bd41-4245-90de-1f33516fff32">Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think is going to happen with Obamacare? : <strong>But okay - and I understand this - but if you break your leg and go to the ER, they have to treat you, yes?</strong>  They can't just be like "Oh you can't pay, see ya," and send you on your way.  So then who pays?  To me that sort of system says that people do have a right to health care. 
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]
Yes. Then they usually send a bill, which doesn't get paid in many cases and it goes to collections, and then it brings down your credit (right?) but someone else (well many someone else's) pays the bill.

I know it doesn't work this way, but maybe hospitals should just say 'no.' I'm heartless, I know.