You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?

AllAboutTheBenjamin

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57439063/judge-sending-message-with-ravi-sentence/

Bringing you up to speed - a couple years ago, a gay college student committed suicide by jumping off a bridge after his roommate broadcast his first sexual encounters online via webcam.  Yesterday he was sentenced to 30 days in jail - a jury found him guilty of 15 criminal counts, including bias intimidation and invasion of privacy.  I watched Nancy Grace for a while last night and of course she was pissed off saying 30 days is not enough, because this guy's actions led to the teen taking his own life.  Others might say you can't predict what someone will do so he's not wholly responsible for the death.

What do you think?  Is this guy's punishment harsh enough?  If so, why, and if no, what do you think is just punishment?

Blueyed228

Taping your roomates in sex acts is sadly done in many frat houses and college campuses.  Most of the time the victims of it are girls.  I dont like how this was made out to be a hate crime.  I think what he did was wrong but Im not convinced he did it because he hates gay people.

cheeseandrice

He's not wholly responsible for his death, true.

But seriously?! Setting up a hidden webcam and broadcasting someone's sex is only 30 days? I'm surprised they couldn't tack 'hate crime' to it.  Wasn't the roommate doing it only because he's gay?

ETA: ha apparently Blue and I are opposite sides of the fence on this one

LetsHikeToday

I have been kinda keeping up with this story. It's really sad. I don't know much about New Jersey laws and what exactly punishments are for whatever he was charged with so I don't know if I can say I agree or disagree with it. Does anyone have more information on that?

LetsHikeToday

Steph- from what I remember they did talk about it being a hate crime at the beginning but like I said, I don't know what ever came of that.

baystateapple

I think 30 days is a pretty short sentence for 15 counts, although most of those were probably misdemeanors.

But I agree with Blue -- without proof that it was a hate crime, it's really difficult to pinpoint if it really was, or if it was just an idiot broadcasting his roommate's sexual escapades to be cruel.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:1ec9aa55-432c-40ba-8324-eeae9e9157f7">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]Taping your roomates in sex acts is sadly done in many frat houses and college campuses.  Most of the time the victims of it are girls.  I dont like how this was made out to be a hate crime.  I think what he did was wrong but Im not convinced he did it because he hates gay people.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I think it was made into a hate crime because of Ravi's actions prior to the taping.  He looked up Tyler Clementi online and found out he was gay by looking at his Facebook and Twitter accounts.  He made numerous eye-rolly postings on his own Facebook and Twitter pages about his gay roommate and invited hundreds of people to watch the encounters online.

But yeah, whether or not it was a hate crime - taping people without their knowledge or consent is, I believe, felonious activity in some states, due to voyeurism laws and such.  I guess New Jersey isn't one of those places?  I'm not sure.

acaponi87

This is going to sound so lame.

In the class I'm in today they are working on preparing a mock trial for Romeo and Juliet. Friar Laurence is being tried for his role in the deaths of Romeo and Juliet.

He definitely got off easy. There needs to be a harsher punishment for the invasion of privacy. But I don't think he can be held responsible for that person's death.

ETA: Sorry I forgot to say that the point of the R+J trial thing is that it reminds me of this case.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:0dfef7bc-29b6-4dc8-ae99-9073796355e5">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi? : I think it was made into a hate crime because of Ravi's actions prior to the taping.  He looked up Tyler Clementi online and found out he was gay by looking at his Facebook and Twitter accounts.  He made numerous eye-rolly postings on his own Facebook and Twitter pages about his gay roommate and invited hundreds of people to watch the encounters online. But yeah, whether or not it was a hate crime <strong><u>- taping people without their knowledge or consent is, I believe, felonious activity in some states, due to voyeurism laws and such.  I guess New Jersey isn't one of those places?  I'm not sure.
</u></strong>Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

Im not sure either. 

I agree with the crime being taping without consent.  I dont think you can hold people responsible for how others would react to it.  Its kind of like how I feel about the bullying stuff. 

calixtine

While he couldn't have known that his roommate would commit sucide over this, he did broadcast the tape in order to cause some form of harm to his roommate.  I'm conflicted though as to whether this is a criminal case or a moral one.  If his roommate hadn't committed suicide, he could not have been punished criminally.  At most he may have been suspended from school for conduct unbecoming. So, while I think what he did is reprehensible and morally wrong, I'm not sure it is criminal.  This is where Karma should come in and do the punishing for us.

jcg98

In Response to Re:You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?:[QUOTE] As for what is just? Well, maybe his entire experience in jail should be broadcast via webcam. Either way, I hope this guy has realized what a complete ahole he was. Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]
I can get on board with this idea. And sadly, no, I don't think he gets it at all.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I am  not sure you can be held responsible for how people react to it either, but to me - invasion of privacy is a very, very violating crime.  Lame example but have you guys seen that one movie on Lifetime about this?  Lol.  That poor family was ripped apart by the fact their neighbor had been secretly taping them - in the bathrooms, bedrooms, places where you truly think you're alone. 

Blueyed228

I think for it to be a "murder" type of charge, you would have to prove that everyone in this situation would have killed themselves.  Or something like that.  You cant legislate on hypotheticals.  Its not fair to the person being charged.  How are we supposed to know how every single person in the world would react to something like this.

SereJane

I think 30 days is hardly any time for being guilty on 15 counts. Of course he's not solely responsible for the death but he deserves more than 30 days in jail.

acaponi87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:79ab5319-d8ae-4f16-aa22-60f1a5975e3d">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]While he couldn't have known that his roommate would commit sucide over this, he did broadcast the tape in order to cause some form of harm to his roommate.  I'm conflicted though as to whether this is a criminal case or a moral one.  If his roommate hadn't committed suicide, he could not have been punished criminally.  At most he may have been suspended from school for conduct unbecoming. So, while I think what he did is reprehensible and morally wrong, I'm not sure it is criminal.  This is where Karma should come in and do the punishing for us.
Posted by calixtine[/QUOTE]

Well put.

lbarr088

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:f5deea50-8c00-42d3-a3b4-0fe9e0856833">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think for it to be a "murder" type of charge, you would have to prove that everyone in this situation would have killed themselves.  Or something like that.  You cant legislate on hypotheticals.  Its not fair to the person being charged.  <strong>How are we supposed to know how every single person in the world would react to something like this.</strong>
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>Ditto.  </div><div>
</div><div>For the record, I think he is a completely slimeball for doing that.... and same for anyone who invades peoples privacy.</div>

LetsHikeToday

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:f5deea50-8c00-42d3-a3b4-0fe9e0856833">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think for it to be a "murder" type of charge, you would have to prove that everyone in this situation would have killed themselves.  Or something like that.  You cant legislate on hypotheticals.  Its not fair to the person being charged.  How are we supposed to know how every single person in the world would react to something like this.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]



Exactly. I agree with you.

This guy is an asshole. I do hope this case helps bring attention to the fact that people use the Internet to invade others privacy.

brandichamberlain

I agree that there is not murder worthy, but I think thirty days is way too short. I don't think that the people who do this to any gender regardless of their sexuality should get off with little to no punishment. FFS, people have gotten more time for things that never hurt anyone. He will probably spend a couple days, get off for good behavior because of crowding and then request his record to be sealed. Oh, that's showing him.

ricksang

He taped the guy in a sex act and then showed it to thousands of people. Being gay is already pretty shameful in the USA and having unmarried sex is considered shameful as well. Put the two together and I can only imagine what type of ridicule this guy went through. 30 days is not enough. Has the same guy shown tapes of stright people having sex? I don't for one minute believe this guys had any intention other then to shame/make fun of his gay roommate for being gay.

acaponi87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:7559aa42-083e-4da2-9ae5-4b6e461622a3">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]He taped the guy in a sex act and then showed it to thousands of people. Being gay is already pretty shameful in the USA and having unmarried sex is considered shameful as well. Put the two together and I can only imagine what type of ridicule this guy went through. 30 days is not enough. Has the same guy shown tapes of stright people having sex? I don't for one minute believe this guys had any intention other then to shame/make fun of his gay roommate for being gay.
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]

The article doesn't really make it clear how he posted the video and I know that there were some text messages involved but unless he made comments along with posting the video I don't feel like there is a basis for a "hate crime" or "bias intimidation". The fact the the kid was making out with another guy seems irrelevant to me.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:a9c89850-b109-42eb-af7e-5ecf07d91f1a">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi? : The article doesn't really make it clear how he posted the video and I know that there were some text messages involved but unless he made comments along with posting the video I don't feel like there is a basis for a "hate crime" or "bias intimidation". The fact the the kid was making out with another guy seems irrelevant to me.
Posted by acaponi87[/QUOTE]


He used his social networking sites to spread the word of the videos.

LetsHikeToday

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:a9c89850-b109-42eb-af7e-5ecf07d91f1a">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi? : The article doesn't really make it clear how he posted the video and I know that there were some text messages involved but unless he made comments along with posting the video I don't feel like there is a basis for a "hate crime" or "bias intimidation". The fact the the kid was making out with another guy seems irrelevant to me.
Posted by acaponi87[/QUOTE]


I could be wrong but I'm almost positive he did it because his roommate was gay.

acaponi87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:7d896a1f-209a-45be-ae8e-d96b99d1235a">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi? : He used his social networking sites to spread the word of the videos.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

Okay thanks!

ricksang

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:a9c89850-b109-42eb-af7e-5ecf07d91f1a">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi? : The article doesn't really make it clear how he posted the video and I know that there were some text messages involved but unless he made comments along with posting the video I don't feel like there is a basis for a "hate crime" or "bias intimidation". The fact the the kid was making out with another guy seems irrelevant to me.
Posted by acaponi87[/QUOTE]
So you honestly think he posted the video just because he caught the guy having sex at the right time? And if he was just making out with say a girl, I HIGHLY doubt he would have posted a vidoe for anyone to see. It would have been NBD. He posted the video to make fun of his gay roomate.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:8f41a792-d0de-44db-98b4-fe16ed9a8d3e">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, I dont give a rats ass as to whether this has happened before or to women or whatever.  It's wrong.  If someone taped me in a sexual act and broadcast it without my knowledge or consent, I would sure as sh!t pursue criminal charges and sue the piss out of them.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

I didnt say it justifies what he did, I said that it happens all the time, to both men and women, gay and straight, which is why I dont think it is a hate crime or should deserve and special punishment because the kid he taped was gay.

chelseamb11

I'm on the fence of the moral vs legal aspect of it as well. 
I don't believe it warrants a murder charge, but I do think the punishment wasn't severe.  I don't get how it WASN'T a hate crime, especially if he was making gay slurs on his facebook and whatnot.  I would bet a million dollars that he NEVER would have filmed or broadcasted a sex video of his roomie if it was straight sex.

If legally (just by the filming/distribution side of it) he only gets 30 days, that's an effed up law to me.  Making and distributing sexually explicit material without the consent of any party shown should have much bigger repercussions than 30 days in jail.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

If what was said on TV last night is true then I do think it could be classified as a hate crime.  After discovering online that his roommate was gay, Ravi posted on his FB "Found out my roommate is gay."  And when Tyler moved into his dorm room, Ravi had erected a private changing area for himself.  Stuff like that.

ricksang

I do not know how the roommate could not have known that showing the guy having gay sex would utterly destroy his college life. He may not have caused him to commit suicide but he gave the guy a little push in that direction.

Blueyed228

Also- I would be curious to see what other sentences have been for similar crimes.  If it is a much less sentence than the others were given, then fine, be upset, but I doubt it is.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:27c73c6b-5ccd-4893-bdcd-8283f48c8716">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]I found this on msnbc: According to the Middlesex County prosecutor, New Jersey's invasion of privacy statutes make it a crime "to collect or view images depicting nudity or sexual contact involving another individual without that person's consent." It's a separate crime to transmit or distribute those images. The penalty can include a prison term of up to five years. If the hate crime enhancement were applied, it would raise the maximum penalty to 10 years Based on that ^^^, I think 30 days is way too lenient.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

You have to take into account if he has ever been in trouble before etc.  There are people who commit first time crimes and only get probabtion.  Just because the max is 5 years doesnt mean he should get 5 years.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_you-guys-wanna-talk-about-dharun-ravityler-clementi?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:7dd63bbc-3716-4de8-8ae8-c88d8f7b5167Post:78e1dcfc-8851-482f-80d4-f3f774479102">Re: You guys wanna talk about Dharun Ravi/Tyler Clementi?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm certainly not saying he should get 5 years but there's a huge disparity between 1 month and 5 years.  The article also went on to say that it didn't qualify for a federal hate crime b/c you have to prove intent to cause violence to the victim.  At the state level, they have to prove they were motivated only b/c he was gay.  Based on both of those criteria, I don't think it qualifies as a hate crime.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

But you also cant take the fact that the kid killed himself into consideration when sentencing because that wasnt the crime he was charged with