Smoking and Insurance

dmiller9274

Yesterday we had a benefit fair to kick off open enrollment for the year.  Our company has decided that they are going to cover 30% less on the employer contribution for smokers.  Smokers are considered to have "risky behaviors" so we have to pay more.  It doesn't matter if you quit before the new benefit year, if you've smoked in the last two years you have to pay the additional cost. All employees have to sign an affidavit that they've been smoke free for 2 years, and pay the additional cost until it has been 2 years.  Obviously if they determine you've lied and are in fact smoking you have to pay back anything that was covered. 

What do you think of this policy?

J&K10910

I like it.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Kinda makes sense since smoking can cause health problems and thus cost insurance companies more... but... damn.  Kinda shitty.  I mean there are lots of risky behaviors people do.

I don't like the two years rule.  I mean a smoker's health DRAMATICALLY improves within the first two weeks after quitting. 

betrothed123

I completely agree with the policy.  It's your choice to smoke, and in our current times you can't deny knowing the health risks.  If you choose to put your health at risk why should my premiums (as a non0smoker, low risk customer) pay for health problems caused by your voluntary habit?

As for having to quit for 2 years, I also support that.  The chemicals effect you much longer than that.

Blueyed228

Do they extend the same fees and restrictions to obese employees? Or alcoholic employees? I pay 600 a month for my insurance. I don't think it should come with restrictions. But I am also a smoker.

gottahavashorti

I think 2 years is a little long and it shouldn't apply to those who aren't daily smokers like guys who smoke a cigar every few weeks, but I'm not opposed to it.  Particularly if it means the employer is able to lower increases in premiums payed by non-smoking employees. 

Celles

My employer has a similar policy.  Our premiums are 100% paid if we're smoke-free; otherwise, we pay something like $25 a month.  Smoking is absolutely not allowed on the premesis. 

Personally, I think it's fantastic.  I'd rather the smokers pay more for their premiums than we all pay more for their premiums.  I hate the idea of subsidizing someone else's bad habit.

LessThanZero

Why do they not find out if people are drinking heavily every night after work and ruining their liver? Why don't they check to make sure people aren't running around having unprotected sex twice a week? Are those not unhealthy too?

Sorry, I'm all for this. But NOT when it's just SMOKERS that get the shaft. Spread it out across the board eh?

LedZeppelin

I agree with the policy. It makes sense. Although, Blue makes a good about obese and alcoholic employees.

*good point

J&K10910

I wonder how they'd find out if you were a smoker.

MeaghanandMichael

I smoke a few cigs a day and I agree with this policy. I am no dummy and I definitely understand my health risks and don't blame companies for doing this.

BUT - like Blue said, obese people and heavy drinkers should get the same treatment. If your company is not doing it for these people then they should not be doing it for smokers either.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:1455bdf3-fdee-4d29-b2bc-33e3a23ac1d5">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]I wonder how they'd find out if you were a smoker.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]


Yeah because unless you're taking smoke breaks all day - how could they know?

My mom smokes.  She smokes maybe 3 a day - not many - but no one knows she smokes.  Everyone's always surprised when they find out.

She could totally lie.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:26d06321-ba33-43d0-8c3d-715571364b94">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : Jinx. And holy crap!  That seems high.  I pay $200 a month.  Do I just have really good insurance?
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]



I don't get insurance through work but we are required to have insurance im my state.

I have to pay out of pocket.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:56625b4a-dfc0-484b-96d6-091414efffb7">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : I don't get insurance through work but we are required to have insurance im my state. I have to pay out of pocket.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]


The Massachussetts health care plan?  ...Or something to that effect, correct?

maratea

My first thought was how would they really know if you've been smoke-free for two years?

Our company does something similar, but instead of raising premiums for smokers, non-smokers get a certain amount taken off their deductible. So, still an incentive to quit. I think it's around $500 off the deductible if you're a non-smoker. 

LedZeppelin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:1455bdf3-fdee-4d29-b2bc-33e3a23ac1d5">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]I wonder how they'd find out if you were a smoker.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

The smell, your teeth, the percent of oxygen in your blood.

mocha beans

As much as I agree with these types of policies as a nonsmoker, I can definitely understand the frustration with other unhealthy risk behaviors not being subject to such policies.  It does raise the question of where do we draw the line as far as what is and isn't considered risky enough to jack your premiums.

LesPaul

Our wellness benefit policy penalizes smokers and overweight people.  Anyone with a BMI over 25 has to be enrolled in Weight Watchers (and achieve a goal) to receive the cash incentive for the year.  Smoking is a huge hit to our wellness 'score' and can prevent someone from reaching the threshold required to get the incentives too.  It isn't an honor system - bloodwork is done to determine who smokes and who doesn't.  Insurance premiums are the same for everyone, though.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:a3f46846-ecc0-4c0b-8dd4-75e706449509">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : The smell, your teeth, the percent of oxygen in your blood.
Posted by LedZeppelin[/QUOTE]

But none of that is foolproof.

dmiller9274

Blue and JCB, That's where I have a hard time with this.  As a smoker, I will not deny that I'm potentially creating health problems for myself.  But, I don't think it's fair to single out the smokers.  If they are going to lump it into "risky behavior" I think it should apply to employees that drink alcohol.  I smoke, but I don't drink so I've cancelled out self inflicting another potential health risk.  Also, the overweight issue...we have at least 10 people on my floor that are at best 200lbs overweight.  How am I a risk and they aren't. Sexual behavior is another one.  I can agree that I might be more of a liability to insure, but so are these other folks. 

It feels very big brother to me, what are they going to try and control next?

Celles

What if someone is obese due to a medical condition rather than poor lifestyle choices?  And how do you define "heavy drinking" vs. light, moderate, or social drinking?  I understand where you ladies are coming from, but it's a lot easier to identify a smoker vs. a non-smoker than it is to make judgment calls about weight or drinking habits. 

Frankly, I don't care if it isn't "fair" that smokers are penalized while people who are deemed high risks in other ways aren't.  It isn't fair for nonsmokers to share in the higher premiums assessed on group policies when there are smokers in the group, either.  IMO, if you're adult enough to light up, you're adult enough to deal with the consequences (financial and medical).

SarahPLiz

Our university is part of an insurance pool, and it is interesting when they release their claim statistics. Most people (85%+) never even reach their deductible in a year. Then there are like 3 people who hit their lifetime max each year (back when you could actually have a lifetime max). I imagine these are catastrophic illnesses. They insure thousands of people who work for 12 different universities and hundreds of churches. The said that if their charter allowed them to charge different rates based on age or riskier behaviors, that they could lower our premiums at least 10%, if not more. I am on a plan that I don't pay anything for, but if the premiums were lower, perhaps the institution could afford raises. 

I think its very interesting to look at the statistics. They are proposing a plan now that is like a health savings account hybid, where the institution pays a really really low premium, but then covers all expenses up to a $3,000 deductible for each person before the insurance kicks in. Depending on the age and health of the workforce at each institution, this can save them lots of money if people really don't reach their yearly deductible. $3000 is like 8 months of premiums, instead of paying 12. 

dmiller9274

Also, they are upping our deductible for all employees from $750 to $2000.  It seems like our company is mostly looking for ways to get out of paying much for our insurance.

dmiller9274

I know, it's junk.  The smokers can avoid an increase by dropping to a lower plan that has a $6000 deductible...that plan costs the same for a smoker as our current Cadillac package.  In 6 months I can drop the damn insurance, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much, I just hate how smokers are always getting the shaft.

ricksang

I detest smoking and this seems a little unfair to me. If one bad habit./addiction is going to be punished, they all should.

LedZeppelin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:a73024c7-62a4-4e1d-ac09-f1c288172f8c">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : But none of that is foolproof.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but I have yet to meet a person by whom I'm surprised to find out they are a smoker.

Celles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:43206d22-7d9d-4d14-97ac-5217b5b13396">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]I know, it's junk.  The smokers can avoid an increase by dropping to a lower plan that has a $6000 deductible...that plan costs the same for a smoker as our current Cadillac package.  In 6 months I can drop the damn insurance, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much, <strong>I just hate how smokers are always getting the shaft.</strong>
Posted by dmiller9274[/QUOTE]

Then don't smoke? 

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Smokers get to take smoke breaks at work, and because I don't smoke, I don't get to take breaks like that.

They get to go outside and socialize with the other smokers and I'm stuck inside here working (err, knotting) while they enjoy themselves.

Boo. 

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:20e4eb28-43d3-4804-9161-829d4571c8fe">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : Maybe, but I have yet to meet a person by whom I'm surprised to find out they are a smoker.
Posted by LedZeppelin[/QUOTE]

I have.  Have I even been surprised to find out that someone smokes a pack a day?  Well, no.  But one or two a day, or socially?  Yeah, I have been surprised. 

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:166af4b7-51c7-49a3-89af-e47d98c97f17">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : <strong> I would think it's obvious that no one is going to punish someone for being overweight when the cause is genetic/medical.</strong> And if you're adult enough to chose to eat a big mac or pizza everyday, then you're adult enough to deal with the financial and medical consequences, no?
Posted by LessThanZero[/QUOTE]

But if you tried to differentiate in order to charge them the "right" premium, you'd be requiring people to provide you with confidential medical information.  

LedZeppelin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_smoking-insurance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:baf3706b-3bb6-47dd-885f-8baea83399a0Post:786104c5-f705-4d46-a6e3-099684ba84c1">Re: Smoking and Insurance</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Smoking and Insurance : So, they're going to randomly nicotine test people?  Or do it before they pay for services?  <strong>How long does nicotine STAY in your blood?</strong>  I'm not trying to be a brat to you, Les, I promise, I'm just saying I don't really feel like there's a really good way for them to prove anyone has smoked in the last 2 years if someone wanted to lie about it, you know? 
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]
<pre>According to "The Facts About Smoking."
University of Rochester.
<a href="http://www.rochester.edu/uhs/healthpromotion/Tobacco/smokefacts.html">http://www.rochester.edu/uhs/healthpromotion/Tobacco/smokefacts.html</a>

"Several different factors can affect the rate of metabolism and
excretion of nicotine. Measurements of nicotine or its by-products
will vary depending on the fluid being measured (blood, urine,
or saliva). <strong>In general, a regular smoker will have nicotine or cotinine
present in the body for about three to four days."</strong>

Not trying to be a butt, just trying to help with my googling skills.
</pre>