Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion

jasmineh7777

I have a panel discussion in my communications class tomorrow. My group is presenting on whether or not abortion should be legal. Out of 4 of us, the other 3 are arguing that abortion shouldn't be.
 I am arguing that it should remain legal.

Here are my main points: We are not a Theocracy. Therefore religious arguments against abortion must be disregarded.
 Point two: We have a skewed perspective that abortion is often used as a quick fix. Statistics show that this is not true.

 Attack my argument please? Or tell me arguments why abortion SHOULD NOT be legal, so I can figure out a rebuttal.

I know it is a touchy subject. :S But I'd love some feedback if you're interested.


ETA: My class isn't until tomorrow night. If it's too late to talk about this, I'll check back tomorrow.

Blueyed228

Here is another one. 

It could be argued that an assault that results in a miscarriage warrants a murder charge of some kind from the law.  Why is it considered an "life" at 3 months then, but not for an abortion?

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Don't quote me on this - in fact, do some more research - but I want to say that I've heard somewhere that after abortion was made legal, the generation after that - crime went down.  I can't remember if it was nationally, or if it was just one specific area of the US. 

I want to say the book was Freakonomics.  But I'd check that for sure.  But basically, the case that was made was that abortions are more commonly attained by lower income or lower class women that would otherwise give birth to a child that would grow up to live a life of crime.

For the record - I would not dare make this assumption, nor generalize people in this way.  It's just a claim that I've heard that might be worth looking into. 

Frankly the argument kinda sucks because it basically says that people who will probably grow up in crappy home lives will just commit crime and don't deserve to live.  I don't believe that. 

But it's just another point.

ETA - Okay, I get why it's lopsided - I just think for debate's sake, if you want it to be fair, they should have had two against two or one against one.  Not three against one.  No matter what the opinion of the majority is.  Two cents

jasmineh7777

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:6c7c3b7c-3f91-46a7-a572-9575a84a37db">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]Here is another one.  It could be argued that an assault that results in a miscarriage warrants a murder charge of some kind from the law.  Why is it considered an "life" at 3 months then, but not for an abortion?
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

Because 1. the mother likely intended to carry that fetus to term, resulting in a bona fide "person."
 and 2. "It is based on the same religious idea (that we should disregard) that life begins at conception.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:8cd84cd0-4c7e-4b01-a95e-8c172abfbf37">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]FI says: I firmly believe, that just as with assisted suicide, pregnant woman who are considering abortions, should be required to meet with a psychologist / therapist, to determine if they are mentally fit to decide if abortion is necessary. OR, if they are so mentally unfit that they should not be having children. I think what he means, and I typed word for word what he said, is that <strong>if someone is considering abortion, there usually is a reason.</strong> And they should go and speak to someone about their reasoning, to make sure 1) it's a valid one,  and 2) they're not just using it as BC. There ARE other options, sometimes there just aren't viable ones. ETA: I don't necessarily agree with his idea, nor do I think HE does. We're just trying to help. And we're both exhausted. haha.
Posted by cupcakesfrosting[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the reason is, they don't want to have the baby.

In general, it can take awhile even get an apointment with a psychologist or any doctor, really... And while we're waiting for the appointment it becomes more and more of a health risk to the woman. The earlier you get it taken care of, the better.
...and if the woman doesn't have health insurance, then who is going to foot the bill?

And, wait, assisted suicides are legal? I'm confused by that, sorry, lol.

nda_roxybabe

I'm literally in the middle of dying (dyeing?) my hair and I don't want to debate but..
I think that once there is a heartbeat there is a life, it is a human imo. Afterall, if you wanted the baby you would admit it was a baby no? But if you don't want it, it is just a fetus? Imo, heartbeat equals life. Ending a life is not okay, especially when that life has no chance, no voice, no option.
I realize I'm in the major, major minority here.  I maybe gave you something to work with though?

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:3b213569-5221-4020-8048-fb9fe3db4a14">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]AATB- Because I go to a Catholic school, and they are all extremely religious/conservative.  I am the sole heathen. ;) (Joking, joking). Jesse- I have an adoption statistic. Only 3% of women that actually give birth give their children up for adoption. Which means the vast majority that decide not to abort also keep the baby, perhaps to the detriment of the child. <strong><u>Blue- At 7 months the fetus could survive without the women. Before that, the fetus is dependent on the woman. (Good poitns with "fetus" and "women", pp)
</u></strong>Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

Ok, so why do they try and save the "fetus" life if the woman goes into early labor?  If it is not considered a life yet, wouldnt they let nature take its course?

ps. I am totally pro-choice, I just like to debate :P

jasmineh7777

Assisted suicide is legal in Montana (woot! woot?) Oregon, and one other state. Colorado? Washington?

jasmineh7777

Good point Roxy. So, how do you feel about the morning after pill? 
Does it count as a human if it can't exist without a host?

Blue- I don't have a good answer. Great point! My on-the-spot argument is that the difference is the desire to carry to term. The ability to survive on one's own is what qualifies the fetus for "personhood" and with medical technology, a pre-term baby can survive independent of the mother.

cupcakesfrosting

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:ecdff005-9d9c-46a4-b3ac-a397566844e4">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : Yeah, the reason is, they don't want to have the baby. In general, it can take awhile even get an apointment with a psychologist or any doctor, really... And while we're waiting for the appointment it becomes more and more of a health risk to the woman. The earlier you get it taken care of, the better. ...and if the woman doesn't have health insurance, then who is going to foot the bill? And, wait, assisted suicides are legal? I'm confused by that, sorry, lol.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

In my case, it wasn't cuz I didn't want the baby. So, you can't generalize EVERY abortion to that. I'm just saying, a majority, sure.

Also, no, Assisted Suicide is NOT legal, at least not in California, but he's just making the argument, that there's no reason why it couldn't be, if there was some follow-through.

And, Planned Parenthood is there. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's still there. If they had a psychologist on staff, there would be that.

nda_roxybabe

Here's a video someone on my FB posted recently. There's a lot of talk of God but it may be good for you to draw ideas from.

I'm ok with morning after pill, at that point, there is no heartbeat, no?
ETA: yes, even if the life can not survive without the host body. Not sure if I have a reason behind that other than thats just how I feel. I guess, if someone tried to abort some puppies who couldnt survive outside their mother I'd still feel the same way. I feel that they should have a chance.

jasmineh7777

Nope, no heartbeat.
 I tried looking at a stages of life thing, but the pictures were disconcerting.
 
Maybe it's easier for me to argue this because of my immense fear of pregnancy? ha

jasmineh7777

Okay, I am headed out, but I will definitely check back tomorrow.
 Thanks for all the ideas!

Simply Fated

Oh, and my friend always uses this argument... "Women who have abortions always regret it and get really depressed afterwards."

He never has any statistics, so I'm going to completely disregard the who "always regret it" thing, especially since I'm sure there are mother out there who regret keeping their kid. Sounds harsh, but it's true.

As for the "really depressed afterwards" part...
Women who have babies experience "post-partum depression." For those who abort their babies, it's just called "regret."...Even though both women experience the same drop in hormone levels and could share other contributing environmental factors.
It's a complete double standard.

JennaV26

I agree with Blue that a lot of their arguments are going to stem from when you think the unborn fetus becomes a child.

22 days after conception the heart starts beating... does that make it a human?

FTR I'm pro life, but I'm also realistic. The only possible situation in which I can ethically see having an abortion is if the mother's life is at stake. I have a few friends whom have had abortions and it's all been for birth control purposes, I haven't even seen any remorse and that seriously makes me sick. But I also realize that women are going to do it anyway so we might as well give them a sterile enviornment in which to do it.  I also believe it's inevitable that it will become legal and that I am on the opposite side and many (and probably most) women so I don't like to talk about it too much. I just honestly believe that life begins at conception.

But when it comes to double murder charges on pregnant women they might bring up the Unborn Victims of Violence Act. If your school is like mine you probably aren't allowed to cite Wikipedia but here's a link to get you started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

avsfan33

The argument I've used against someone who was a bit overboard with the religious debate was that if God didn't intend for a woman to have an abortion, why are you using modern medicine to prolong your life? He didn't intend for you to have modern medicine to prolong your life. If you are sick, God intended for you to either get better or die  - naturally. She stopped responding to me...

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:b4f0c91b-b3d6-49b4-9e6e-b8608feaf3b7">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : Ok, so why do they try and save the "fetus" life if the woman goes into early labor?  If it is not considered a life yet, wouldnt they let nature take its course? ps. I am totally pro-choice, I just like to debate :P
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
My answer is...
It's the woman's choice (key word choice) if she wants to try to save the fetus. If she wants to carry it to term, she should be allowed to. And if she doesn't she shouldn't be forced to.
If the woman goes into labor early in her third trimester, then the fetus can usually survive on it's own, which is why I do agree that third trimester abortion should be illegal, mainly because they are pointless.

And, actually, I don't like the third trimester rule, I think it should be illegal starting at 6 months.


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:c25bf010-6a65-4711-b7c5-cbdd48752e44">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : In my case, it wasn't cuz I didn't want the baby. So, you can't generalize EVERY abortion to that. I'm just saying, a majority, sure. Also, no, Assisted Suicide is NOT legal, at least not in California, but he's just making the argument, that there's no reason why it couldn't be, if there was some follow-through. And, Planned Parenthood is there. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's still there. If they had a psychologist on staff, there would be that.
Posted by cupcakesfrosting[/QUOTE]
I phrased it poorly...
What I meant was, Whether your reason was financial or religious or physical or what ever... in the end, you didn't want to carry the baby to term. It all comes down to that. And no one should judge you or tell you that your reason is invalid. Sure, they might disagree that your reason is a 'good' one, but should they have the legal right to tell you that your reason isn't good enough?

The last I checked my planned parenthood clinic didn't have a psychologist on staff, though I would have to double check, to be honest. I think it would be a good idea to have one and not just for the women wanting abortions, either. Oh, and although planned parenthood are known for being free, they aren't completely free. I have no income coming in right now, but I still have to pay something.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:a4207dbb-5db7-4a3e-b4d5-36bc9eb1e67d">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]The argument I've used against someone who was a bit overboard with the religious debate was that if God didn't intend for a woman to have an abortion, why are you using modern medicine to prolong your life? He didn't intend for you to have modern medicine to prolong your life. If you are sick, God intended for you to either get better or die  - naturally. She stopped responding to me...
Posted by avsfan33[/QUOTE]
I saw someone use a similar argument somewhere else regarding invitro fertilization. They said that if the Lord wanted them to have children, then they wouldn't be infertile and IVF is wrong....
I wanted to ask them if they used band-aids and Bactine... or got flu shots... or ever took a Tylenol...
But I stayed out of that debate, for realsss.

reddy123

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:ebf8670e-e89b-4574-b08b-b625549e9ff1">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]Hmm, abortion.  Everyone's favorite topic.  It turns everyone into assholes :) I think you should make the point, jas - that no matter if abortion is legal or not, women are going to get them.  And if they're going to get them - it should be in a safe, sterile environment.  eBenjamin[/QUOTE]

<div>This is a great rebuttal for your side Jas and has an abundance of tangible proof. Look into countries where abortion is illegal and read up on the lengths women will go to to get it. Whether or not you are pro or con everyone deserves a safe and sterile procedure.</div><div>
</div><div>Wise words AATB!</div>

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:31f28dfd-a478-4dcf-b501-cf65b9849282">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : My answer is... It's the woman's choice (key word choice) if she wants to try to save the fetus. If she wants to carry it to term, she should be allowed to. And if she doesn't she shouldn't be forced to. If the woman goes into labor early in her third trimester, then the fetus can usually survive on it's own, which is why I do agree that third trimester abortion should be illegal, mainly because they are pointless. And, actually, I don't like the third trimester rule, I think it should be illegal starting at 6 months. In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : I phrased it poorly... What I meant was, Whether your reason was financial or religious or physical or what ever... in the end, you didn't want to carry the baby to term. It all comes down to that. And no one should judge you or tell you that your reason is invalid. Sure, they might disagree that your reason is a 'good' one, but should they have the legal right to tell you that your reason isn't good enough? The last I checked my planned parenthood clinic didn't have a psychologist on staff, though I would have to double check, to be honest. I think it would be a good idea to have one and not just for the women wanting abortions, either. Oh, and although planned parenthood are known for being free, they aren't completely free. I have no income coming in right now, but I still have to pay something.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

I wasnt looking to argue the topic of abortion with you.  I was simply trying to give Jas some ideas of what the other side might throw her way.

But if your argument is whether the woman *wants* to carry the baby to term or not, what about the father?  What if he wants if to go full term?  Did the woman not take on that *want* by having unprotected sex and knowing that a pregnancy will probably result?  So unless she was raped or was in the 0.1% of BC users that had it fail, would the expectation of the unprotected act not be a pregnancy, therefore the assumption that she *wants* the baby?

Also, as far as the psychological trauma, its not really something anyone can call "bullshiit" on unless they have experienced it firsthand

Roxy:  The morning after pill will not end a pregnancy, it will only force a period.  If you are already pregnant, it has no affect on the pregnancy

flyjawn

Freakanomics has a fantastic chapter about how legalized abortion lowered crime rates.

(as mentioned by a PP)

basically, women who intuitively knew that they could not properly care for a child, were able to abort their pregnancy and 18 years later, a dramatic drop in crime.  they dug way down into the data and it's pretty solid evidence.  

Simply Fated

^I know, I am doing the same... I'm just debating back with ideas, is all.


But if your argument is whether the woman *wants* to carry the baby to term or not, what about the father?  What if he wants if to go full term? 

If the child is outside of my body and needed a kidney to survive, the father can't force me to donate mine. Not that I wouldn't, but for arguments sake, he can't force me to keep our child alive. It works both ways. It's my body that has to go through the trauma and not his.


Did the woman not take on that *want* by having unprotected sex and knowing that a pregnancy will probably result?  So unless she was raped or was in the 0.1% of BC users that had it fail, would the expectation of the unprotected act not be a pregnancy, therefore the assumption that she *wants* the baby?
You also have young girls who truly believe that you can't get pregnant the first time or that you can't get pregnant when the moon is full.
Ok, I made that second one up.
My point is, "ignorance" or "apathy regarding BC" doesn't  mean that the girl wants the baby.
And who should be allowed to make such a call, anyway?
And considering that we have rapes hard to prove because of reasons like the "skinny jeans defense," rape alone isn't always enough of an exemption these days.

You can't always prove that BC was or wasn't used... and since BC is often part of your medical records and your medical records are protected, you shouldn't have to be forced to use your medical records to defend yourself, anyway.

For anyone interested....
Skinny Jeans Defense:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1270113/Youre-guilty-rape-Those-skinny-jeans-tight-remove-jury-rules.html

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:97ef770d-1e1f-4a16-b994-9b9b4e235f49">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]^I know, I am doing the same... I'm just debating back with ideas, is all. But if your argument is whether the woman *wants* to carry the baby to term or not, what about the father?  What if he wants if to go full term?  If the child is outside of my body and needed a kidney to survive, the father can't force me to donate mine. Not that I wouldn't, but for arguments sake, he can't force me to keep our child alive. It works both ways. It's my body that has to go through the trauma and not his. Did the woman not take on that *want* by having unprotected sex and knowing that a pregnancy will probably result?  So unless she was raped or was in the 0.1% of BC users that had it fail, would the expectation of the unprotected act not be a pregnancy, therefore the assumption that she *wants* the baby? You also have young girls who truly believe that you can't get pregnant the first time or that you can't get pregnant when the moon is full. Ok, I made that second one up. My point is, "ignorance" or "apathy regarding BC" doesn't  mean that the girl wants the baby. And who should be allowed to make such a call, anyway? And considering that we have rapes hard to prove because of reasons like the "skinny jeans defense," rape alone isn't always enough of an exemption these days. You can't always prove that BC was or wasn't used... and since BC is often part of your medical records and your medical records are protected, you shouldn't have to be forced to use your medical records to defend yourself, anyway. For anyone interested.... Skinny Jeans Defense: <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1270113/Youre-guilty-rape-Those-skinny-jeans-tight-remove-jury-rules.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1270113/Youre-guilty-rape-Those-skinny-jeans-tight-remove-jury-rules.html</a>
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

I would argue back that by her not telling him to use a condom means that she is entering into a "contract" of sorts that if she does get pregnant (and must want to since she is taking no measures not to), she will carry to full term.

Its a stretch....but it could be argued.

nda_roxybabe

Blue- yea, I know it's not an abortion pill and you're correct it will not end a pregnancy but if taken properly and immediately it can lower the chance of conceiving.

amber2123

Is that for real!  OMG all women need skinny jeans, think of how much nicer it would be not to have to worry about being raped!

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:80da8417-24f6-4ac5-b36f-5fdcb9e74f5f">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : I would argue back that by her not telling him to use a condom means that she is entering into a "contract" of sorts that if she does get pregnant (and must want to since she is taking no measures not to), she will carry to full term. Its a stretch....but it could be argued.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
The argument that she didn't know any better would override that. Like I said, there are still girls, and not just young girls, but older women, who still think you can't get pregnant the first time. Stuff like that.
And the law would have to be changed to make the "contract" a legal argument. Right now verbal and written agreements count as legal contracts in most cases, but if nothing is said, then there would be no legitimate case using that argument.

Also, depending on the age, it could be argued that they were too young to be entering into contracts, anyway.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:bae28dae-8df7-4d92-a67b-299e9e03aec2">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]Blue- yea, I know it's not an abortion pill and you're correct it will not end a pregnancy but if taken properly and immediately it can lower the chance of conceiving.
Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]

To take this another step further, the morning after pill could be used to de-bunk the "abortion for birth control" argument since, if taken properly, it has a very high success rate.

And even further, if the woman chose not to use this option, is that not an admission that she wants to carry to full term?  Since she had 2 other chances to prevent the pregnancy? Both that come at a much lower price tag than an abortion.
1: BC
 2: Morning after pill.

Although I may just be hitting Stretch Armstrong status now....

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:dcf7cc42-1f30-474e-ad28-db9dd3d7dcb5">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : The argument that she didn't know any better would override that. Like I said, there are still girls, and not just young girls, but older women, who still think you can't get pregnant the first time. Stuff like that. And the law would have to be changed to make the "contract" a legal argument. Right now verbal and written agreements count as legal contracts in most cases, but if nothing is said, then there would be no legitimate case using that argument. Also, depending on the age, it could be argued that they were too young to be entering into contracts, anyway.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

Well then if they are too young to know better, then they would be too young to be able to legally consent to sex, which would make the act a crime.  Plus, with sex education starting in elementary school, the "I didnt know I could get pregnant" claim could easily be refuted.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:c81f1b78-de9f-405f-9084-87266a993ccc">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : To take this another step further, the morning after pill could be used to de-bunk the "abortion for birth control" argument since, if taken properly, it has a very high success rate. And even further, if the woman chose not to use this option, is that not an admission that she wants to carry to full term?  Since she had 2 other chances to prevent the pregnancy? Both that come at a much lower price tag than an abortion. 1: BC  2: Morning after pill. Although I may just be hitting Stretch Armstrong status now....
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
The morning after pill only works... the morning after lol. It stops the pregnancy from even happening. Most people who aren't trying to have a baby don't find out until the pregnancy is already gone several weeks when the morning after pill would no longer have any effect.
Not using these methods aren't an admission of wanting to keep the baby, it's an admission of not knowing you were pregnant or you thought you couldn't get pregnant.
The pull-out method is a method. Not a great method, but a method. Same with the rhythm method. They don't involve taking any pills or anything. If the woman claimed to use a method, but it failed, how do you prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a method was not used?

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:6984b29b-6c9d-44e2-bde1-a464b39baeec">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : Well then if they are too young to know better, then they would be too young to be able to legally consent to sex, which would make the act a crime.  Plus, with sex education starting in elementary school, the "I didnt know I could get pregnant" claim could easily be refuted.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
On the contrary, the age of consent in some states are lower than that of agreeing to a contract.

I definitely didn't go to your school. We didn't start sex education until middle school.
Not all sex education is taught at the elementary level in all schools. And, of course, school districts, private schools and parochial schools all differ in their curriculum. Some schools teach 'abstinence only' as their sexual education, which wouldn't help the "But you learned this in school" argument.
My friend swears to me that in fifth grade we learned about periods, but I must have been absent that day because I was completely clueless when I first got mine.
But you raise an interesting question, should the person questioning the girl have to provide proof she was in class that day the subject was covered and that she knew the answers to every single question on every single quiz and test? And, should this person have to prove that she still knows the answers to those questions years later?
I can no longer remember how to multiply fractions and I learned that in elementary school.

Night_Sprite

Jas, there's always an imposition of your will onto another person argument: (I skimmed, so sorry if this has been mentioned.)  Essentially, how can one set of opinions be so much more accounted for in legislation than another set of opinions?  Giving people power to impose upon the will of other humans based on morality is an imposition of belief onto another person.  If abortion is legal, no one will ever be forced to get an abortion, it's just an option.

marissa_claire

I don't know if this has been brought up, but it was a big deal in KS that teens were getting abortions without their parents being notified.  Basically, these girls under 18 were getting abortions mostly because they were too scared to even tell their parents they were pregnant.  I think that's a pretty terrible reason to have one.  There was an argument for a while about whether there should be parental consent to have an abortion, although I don't think it ever went anywhere.

It ended up being a bigger deal because the doctor who was prosecuted for performing said abortions was later gunned down by a pro-life activist.