Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion

sarah0725

I know it's an unsavory topic, but I'd also look into late-term abortions a bit and decide how you feel about them. After that doctor in Kansas was killed, I read some of the stories of the women that he helped, and they made me realize that there's a lot of misinformation out there about why women seek abortions that late. It's worth looking into, in case it comes up.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:088b20d0-0223-4790-8831-78e9559787df">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't know if this has been brought up, but it was a big deal in KS that teens were getting abortions without their parents being notified.  Basically, these girls under 18 were getting abortions mostly because they were too scared to even tell their parents they were pregnant.  I think that's a pretty terrible reason to have one.  There was an argument for a while about whether there should be parental consent to have an abortion, although I don't think it ever went anywhere. It ended up being a bigger deal because the doctor who was prosecuted for performing said abortions was later gunned down by a pro-life activist.  
Posted by marissa_claire[/QUOTE]
No just teens do this, women who are afraid to tell their husbands have abortions, too. So it's not a question of age, really.
The real question here is, should the parents have a right to force their child to carry a child to term?

Night_Sprite

Interesting and important video: http://jezebel.com/5672924/husband-stands-up-to-anti+choice-protesters

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:84eec4df-772e-40d2-81e1-a76a85e81aff">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : No just teens do this, women who are afraid to tell their husbands have abortions, too. So it's not a question of age, really. The real question here is, should the parents have a right to force their child to carry a child to term?
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]



No but parents should have the right to know about and consent to any medical procedure. particularly one that can kill them.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:be407480-a63f-4946-8401-65744d87c2e9">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : Pretty big gray area there.  Legally, parents have tons of rights until the girl is 18.  We can't allow them to sign contracts legally until they're 18, so why would they be able to make such a big decision on their own?  It's not a matter of whether parents decide for the girl, but more a matter of should parents be notified that their little baby is knocked up.  
Posted by marissa_claire[/QUOTE]
lmao, "little baby?"
If their "little baby" is knocked up, then she isn't a little baby anymore.


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:651b1c87-2439-4c7b-9f61-936bc2d85e50">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : No but parents should have the right to know about and consent to any medical procedure. particularly one that can kill them.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
Not all abortions are a medical procedure.
The abortion pill, I believe it's called mifepristone. The side effects can suck, but so can the side-effects of aspirin.
Pregnancy and labour can also kill them, by the way. More women die in childbirth and from miscarriages than abortions. Right now, the statistics stand at... I believe it's 1 out of 100,000 women die from abortions and about 9-13 out of 100,000 women die from childbirth. (in the US)

Not all teenagers feel comfortable, or even safe, going to their parents. They shouldn't be punished because of that.

No one should have their right to choose taken away from them by anyone, not even their parents. And no one should be forced to risk their own life for someone else.

leia1979

There was a parental notification measure on the ballot in California about two years ago. The ads in favor said "You deserve to know what your kids are up to."

The ads against the measure mentioned things like kids getting back-alley abortions or ones who feared retaliation from abusive parents.

Here's some information on the measure itself. You might find useful points in the arguments for and against.

http://www.smartvoter.org/2008/11/04/ca/state/prop/4/

This measure did fail, though not by much (48%-52%).

Blueyed228

Does anyone know the legality or ethics behind whether a Dr can perform a medical procedure on a minor?  Cause that could be argued.  A Dr cant take out your tonsils without parental consent, so I highly doubt it would be ethical to perform an abortion.  And typically some kind of pain medication is prescribed (usually high doses of motrin) after the fact.  Can a minor fill their own prescription?

And the abortion pill could cause clotting/hemorrhaging that a minor would not recognize as danger.

aplatanada

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:f5c4c9ba-21f6-47db-9626-291078aa40f2">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]Freakanomics has a fantastic chapter about how legalized abortion lowered crime rates. (as mentioned by a PP) basically, women who intuitively knew that they could not properly care for a child, were able to abort their pregnancy and 18 years later, a dramatic drop in crime.  they dug way down into the data and it's pretty solid evidence.  
Posted by flyjawn[/QUOTE]

Actually, several errors were found in their claim. A good summary is <a href="http://www.economist.com/node/5246700?story_id=5246700">here </a>(clicky).

FWIW, the original study can be found <a href="http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf">here</a> (clicky).  Most academics wouldn't accept Freaknomics as an acceptable scholarly reference since they draw their conclusions from other studies. 

Argument against parental aproval for abortions: pregnancy as the result of parental incest. 

This story of what happened in Nicaragua to a NINE year old girl and her family  is a great example of how extreme anti-choice laws can be harmful to women and children's health: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.attiegoldwater.com/rositathemovie/doc.htm">http://www.attiegoldwater.com/rositathemovie/doc.htm</a>

<a rel="nofollow" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2817051.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2817051.stm</a>

Argument against religion: even *if* we are a "Christian" nation, many Christians support abortion laws (Catholics for a Choice, for one).

Please report back on how the debate went when it's over. I'm curious!

ETA: Link.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:50bcc223-e1de-4243-872b-9c25170a85c5">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]Does anyone know the legality or ethics behind whether a Dr can perform a medical procedure on a minor?  Cause that could be argued.  A Dr cant take out your tonsils without parental consent, so I highly doubt it would be ethical to perform an abortion.  And typically some kind of pain medication is prescribed (usually high doses of motrin) after the fact.  Can a minor fill their own prescription? And the abortion pill could cause clotting/hemorrhaging that a minor would not recognize as danger.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
I think it depends on the state, but, yeah, I know that in at least some of them minors can definitely fill their own prescriptions.

You can get clotting and hemorrhaging even when there wasn't an abortion, so recognizing danger signs is probably something every woman should be taught at some point, anyway. <span style="font-style:italic;">(I wasn't and had a freak out one day when I was home from school with cramps.)</span>  And the parent might not recognize the signs, either, so I don't think it really makes a difference. Besides, unless the parent is, like, checking the pads or tampons, how would they even know, anyway?

Abortions are a right, not a privilege. It's not like driving or being allowed to stay out late. It's an actual right, like the right to vote. It can't be taken away by a parent because "they said so." Parental consent infringes upon that right.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_speech-topic-abortion?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8e4b92c-d868-4573-a30c-4fc500574f90Post:720a4438-3f0e-4889-ac23-eed238c28fef">Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Help me with a speech? Topic: Abortion : What would your cutoff age be then?  Because girls are now getting puberty as young as 7.  Say a 7-year-old gets raped, then pregnant, and then her rapist takes her to the doctor to get an abortion.  Would that be okay?  Under your logic I think it would be.   It's no different for a 10-year-old or 13-year-old.  There are girls that young that are having sex on a regular basis.  Not even going to argue those merits, but you don't think the parents of a 10-year-old should be notified that their daughter is having an abortion? And on your whole rights thing, you seem to forget that minors don't have access to a number of rights.  They can't vote, and through a series of judicial precedents, freedom of speech has its limits in public schools.  Look, I'm in the middle ground on abortion, but I do not see how it's okay for a girl to get an abortion because she's too scared to tell her dad what she's really been up to.  
Posted by marissa_claire[/QUOTE]
If a scared little girl came into a doctors office with a man who is not her parent or legal guardian, then I would hope the doctor would be trained enough to spot those signs of danger.
Usuing your hypothetical situation, if the girl was 27, instead of 7, they would still call someone in to talk to the rape victim.
So that point is moot.

You can't possibly know why a girl, no matter if she is 13 or 17, won't tell her dad she is pregnant. What if it was because of her dad she is even there? What if she tells her parents, and they refuse to consent and kick her out? Now she's 14, pregnant, and homeless.

The first amendment has nothing to do with what you say in school...
<strong>"Congress shall make no law</strong> respecting an establishment of religion, or <strong>prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech</strong>, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The first amendment doesn't say that other establishments, like schools, can't make rules forbidding certain speech. It's the same thing at work or in the home.

18 is the legal age to vote because in several states the voting age was higher than the draft age.
"Old enough to fight, old enough to vote"
"Old enough to have sex, old enough to have an abortion"

jasmineh7777

Hey ladies.
 Thank you so much for all of the ideas!
 I actually have more time to work on this now. The other people in my group didn't write their speeches, so we have to go next week. :S
 
 But I'm excited to read all of these links! And I really appreciate the pro-life people for giving me your perspective. It gives me a lot to think about and prepare for.