oh good gravy. penn state related. (ETA also rpotd)

Wzz

coverage has been all day. i think it's good that people are still talking about this because it's clearing up a lot of misconceptions. at least, that is what i hope.

but for crying out loud, i can't really believe that people can't get it through their heads that the reputation of penn state was built on the ability of the heads of the football department covering up kids being molested. if the team didn't have the power they had, no one would have been afraid to investigate and do something about it way back in the day. it would probably be a different department than what has been for the past, oh, 3 decades.

and really, penn state is not the only college nor is it the only football team around. the people supporting the university and the FB team and sandusky and paterno gave them the power they had to get away with what they got away with.

ETA - this is an example of white privilege at it's best.

::off soap box::

ReturnOfKuus

I had this discussion with my parents yesterday.  They don't feel any sort of way about Penn state, and aren't really football fans in general, but they questioned the reasoning behind the punishment.  I said that it was the whole FOOTBALL! culture that created a social structure in which this could happen (and in which there are STILL people who insist that Paterno's winning football team should weigh more heavily on character judgment than covering up for a pedophile), and this creates a time-out for the whole Penn State community to step back from footballmania and get their damn heads on straight.

6fsn

I was watching the ESPN replay of the announcements and they kept showing these chicks being all aghast at the punishment.  I screamed at someone in the crowd to appluad the sanctions or someone they interviewed after to have some compassion for the TRUE victims.

tawillers

DH was listening to some sports station on AM radio yesterday.  One guy was all "Now no one wants to come play Penn State because of the stigma!"

The hosts were all "WTELMF are you talking about?!?!"

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO EFFING STUPID?

hmonkey

as for the sanctions punshing the current football players: they can keep their scholarships and move to a different school if football is so important OR keep their scholarships and complete their degree OR keep their scholarships and play at a now-crappy football school.  they are not being punsihed at all.

so -- not punished at all.

hmonkey

btw -- this had nothing to do with them being white.  it had everything to do with the culture of football being elevated above the welfare of children.

basically, it's the catholic church child abuse scandal being played out at a university.

6fsn

The people who will be punishe are the smaller teams who rely on football for their funding and scholarships.

hmonkey

[QUOTE]The people who will be punishe are the smaller teams who rely on football for their funding and scholarships.
Posted by 6fsn[/QUOTE]

i don't understand.  what teams?

AuntFlo

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_oh-good-gravy-penn-state-related?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e40fb46e-e3ae-4eb3-9130-d21149e970b9Post:7f9d981d-ccbe-47c5-a4e7-092348cb637d">Re: oh good gravy. penn state related. (ETA also rpotd)</a>:
[QUOTE]btw -- this had nothing to do with them being white.  it had everything to do with the culture of football being elevated above the welfare of children. <strong>basically, it's the catholic church child abuse scandal being played out at a university.</strong>
Posted by hmonkey[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

6fsn

In most schools the funds from football are also used as part of the athletic fund.  The money gets dispersed to say field hockey or track and field that don't actually make money.  It's used for equipment, travel, scholarships, and whatnot.  The football team will not make any money without going to a bowl game so there will be a lot of people that lose scholarships that won't be able to transfer.  They are most likely to be women and people that are using athletics as a means of funding their education.

ReturnOfKuus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_oh-good-gravy-penn-state-related?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:47Discussion:e40fb46e-e3ae-4eb3-9130-d21149e970b9Post:2c9078bb-c666-4f93-8bd6-fc848bea3129">Re: oh good gravy. penn state related. (ETA also rpotd)</a>:
[QUOTE]In most schools the funds from football are also used as part of the athletic fund.  The money gets dispersed to say field hockey or track and field that don't actually make money.  It's used for equipment, travel, scholarships, and whatnot.  The football team will not make any money without going to a bowl game so there will be a lot of people that lose scholarships that won't be able to transfer.  They are most likely to be women and people that are using athletics as a means of funding their education.
Posted by 6fsn[/QUOTE]


This should serve as a wake-up call for the overabundance of athletic scholarships and the simultaneous drought of academic scholarships, no?

**O-Face**

WORD, kuus. 

Wzz

no, it has nothing to do with being white. i do believe sandusky got away with a lot more than he would have if he were not white, though.

6fsn

While I don't disagree with you Kuus, there is money coming in for sports that is being dispersed for education. A lot of people getting the minor money are getting a few thousand and they  won't go on to anything at a pro level.  They will be able to use their education to further their lives.   If I could kick a ball I certainly would have used it to get some cash. 

On the flip side my SIL could kick a ball and was offered a full ride to Harvard to do so.  She knew she wasn't a Mia Hamm and she wasn't getting in on academics.  She turned them down.

Wzz

the people who might feel punished are the players who might hold great records as a player. but to that i say, big deal. at what expense did the team thrive. think about that one when you show your child your trophys.

hmonkey

many parts of that are not true.

1) bowl games can actually cost the university money, depending on how revenue is generated
http://www.mndaily.com/2011/10/04/bcs-bill-how-bowl-games-cost-football-programs
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-23/college-football-winners-still-lose-as-bowl-game-expenses-exceed-payout.html

2) football generates less than 2 percent of the university's revenue. 

3) the $60m penalty will be paid out over 4 years.

4) let's not kid ourselves and say that people who are on an athletic scholarship are getting an education.  at schools where athletics are paramount, like penn sttate, they are there to play a game, and that's it.  they are housed separately, fed separately, taught separately (if at all) and answer to a completely different code of conduct and ethics than regular students who are there for an education.

ReturnOfKuus

I was about to make the same first two points that Hmo made.  The myth of football financing academics is as pervasive as dog years being equivalent to seven human years.

6fsn

I'll take a major issue with #4.  There are different levels of athletic scholarship.  I know many, many student athletes that used what they are good at to get a good education.  They lived with and studied with and ate with every other student.  No I wasn't at a Big Ten school, but there were several at OSU that were on both academic and athletic scholarship. 

I'll not deny that there are those athletes that get special treatment, but I personally know many that were not getting that.

6fsn

To be clear, I did not say football funded academics.  I said it funded other sports and other sports scholarships.

ReturnOfKuus

Okay, but do we WANT other sports or sports scholarships?  If so, why?

Wzz

but the reason penn state gets the funding for sports it gets is because of the reputation paterno created for himself and the department. the department wouldn't have the reputation it had without the FOOTBALL! mentality and the willingness to shive the scandal under the rug. the department thrived at the expense of children and IMO it never deserved the attention or the funding it had been receiving in the first place.

6fsn

Believe it or not there are people that enjoy playing sports.  Some will do it without getting a scholarship, but the sport still needs funding.  Could they go to school without it?  sure.  Does it make school more enjoyable for some?  You bet.

There is a lot of fluff in college that I took advantage of.  Maybe it wasn't sports, but there were certainly some music and environmental activities that were not at all related to my education.  It wasn't funded by a football team, but it was funded by something. 

ReturnOfKuus

I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing for, 6.  It kind of sounds like you're saying that football, the craze and culture that fostered the whole mess, can't be sanctioned in ways that cost it money because kids just wanna have fun.  But knowing you, I suspect that's not really your stance.

6fsn

There are a lot of thoughts that aren't coming out clearly.  I'm just saying there are some student athletes that do it for enjoyment or so they don't have to take out a few more thousand in student loans.  The football program does support these groups and I do feel bad that they are getting a bit of the shaft because of these sanctions.

IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DO I THINK THAT THE PSU FINES OR SANCTIONS ARE OUT OF LINE OR UNDESERVED.  The people that allowed this to happen are monsters.  The children have been through hell and back and will bear this for their whole lives.

People feel sorry for the football players.  I don't.  The major plays will be mildly inconvenienced at best.  The small bit sports will be more hurt though.

I also take issue with painting every student athlete with a big brush.  Essentially saying everyone is there to play a sport and get special treatment is rubbish.  There were quite a few sitting next to me in class and being inducted into the same honor society as my brother. 

ReturnOfKuus

That is entirely too balanced and reasonable for a hot-button current event topic, 6. 

Out of the thread!

PMeg819

I'll agree with 6 on the scholarship thing. I went to a Big Ten school. I took classes with some of the football players, and some were truly dumb. They needed hand holding. Others were very smart, engaged, and took their studies seriously. My cousin's husband got a football scholarship and ended up playing professional football. But when his career ended he had to make a living and he was damn glad he studied in college. The same can be said of a lot of scholarships- let's not kid ourselves that there are any number of scholarship recipients d!cking around and doing jack sh!t.

The more and more I think about it, the more I wonder about the trickle down effects. How many scholarships, grant monies, etc. are going to go away because people are concerned that if the football program has no oversight, what else doesn't? But then again, I guess that increases funding opportunities for other institutions.

6fsn

I've been pooping a lot lately

hmonkey

i don't like 6's way of thinking, either, kuus.

tawillers

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_oh-good-gravy-penn-state-related?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e40fb46e-e3ae-4eb3-9130-d21149e970b9Post:265c3f38-8561-4921-92be-cdbcedbb6e8a">Re: oh good gravy. penn state related. (ETA also rpotd)</a>:
[QUOTE] I also take issue with painting every student athlete with a big brush.  Essentially saying everyone is there to play a sport and get special treatment is rubbish.  There were quite a few sitting next to me in class and being inducted into the same honor society as my brother. 
Posted by 6fsn[/QUOTE]

Agreed.  Both my DH and I were student-athletes on scholarship and we appreciated the opportunity to get a college education without taking out several thousands of dollars in loans.  We were in class and housed with the general population.  We received no special treatment.

GBCK

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_oh-good-gravy-penn-state-related?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:47Discussion:e40fb46e-e3ae-4eb3-9130-d21149e970b9Post:71bd1564-3af0-4088-9035-e70e29bb8773">Re: oh good gravy. penn state related. (ETA also rpotd)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: oh good gravy. penn state related. (ETA also rpotd) : This should serve as a wake-up call for the overabundance of athletic scholarships and the simultaneous drought of academic scholarships, no?
Posted by ReturnOfKuus[/QUOTE]

<div>Eh, I've seen schools that "only" give academic scholarships...never atheletic.</div><div>Convieiently, their academic scolarships are based on social/giving/weird criteria and only given to "well rounded" students who happened to play sports.  <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" /></div>

ReturnOfKuus

That's like UPMC saying they're a nonprofit because they call all their profit "surplus revenue".