Ectopic Pregnancy

Calypso1977

So i started reading "what to expect when you are expecting" (no, not pregnant yet) and of course being the paranoid worry wart i am i skipped to the "complicated pregnancy" chapter where i read about all sorts of crazy things that can happen.

so one of the things listed is ectopic pregnancy.  what is the official church position on ectopic pregnancy?    Obviously, the pregnancy will never go to term since its in the tube, not the uterus.  however, it is still an embryo which is a life.  to remove it would be an abortion, right?  so is one supposed to let it run its course, rupture the tube, etc. and hope you dont die in the process? 

im sure ill never have one, but it really got me thinking.

mica178

Calypso, don't focus on the unlikely complications of pregnancy, you'll psych yourself out!  Remember, most pregnancies are relatively drama free and result in a live birth and healthy mother.  

Here's the best I could find.  There are ways of treating the ectopic pregnancy that do not directly kill the developing fetus, although the end result would be the death of the fetus.  No Catholic believes the pregnant woman should wait until tubal rupture to seek treatment, that would put her at unnecessary risk of death too.

http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=57

[Deleted User]

I agree with mica. I can't see how the Church or any other human being would value the life of the fetus over the mother's health and well being.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_ectopic-pregnancy?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:176bc8f8-c92d-40f3-bf3e-ca8c20658d35Post:42981e9d-7868-4a25-96cc-9be228b281e7">Ectopic Pregnancy</a>:
[QUOTE]So i started reading "what to expect when you are expecting" (no, not pregnant yet) and of course being the paranoid worry wart i am i skipped to the "complicated pregnancy" chapter where i read about all sorts of crazy things that can happen. so one of the things listed is ectopic pregnancy.  what is the official church position on ectopic pregnancy?    Obviously, the pregnancy will never go to term since its in the tube, not the uterus.  however, it is still an embryo which is a life.  to remove it would be an abortion, right?  so is one supposed to let it run its course, rupture the tube, etc. and hope you dont die in the process?  im sure ill never have one, but it really got me thinking.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]


IMO you're taking this too far

I had an ectopic the year before M was born.  I thought that I had m/c but my doctor said my blood work showed I was still pregnant.  He told me to watch for any pain on either side or shoulder pain.  Several days later I woke up with both.

They did an ultra sound to determine exactly where the pregnancy was.  Then they operated, opened my right fallopian tube and removed the embryo, Sometimes the tube has to be removed but that didn't happen to me. I had been about 6 weeks pregnant.  Much more than that, the tube could rupture. You would know there was something wrong, trust me on this one.

Chill out on this, you can make yourself crazy worrying about every little thing that can go wrong.  Most pregnancies go very smoothly.  Sometimes, accidents happen but not often.  Some 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage and quite often the mother doesn't even know.  They just thought it was a late period.

I don't know what they did with the embryo and I really don't wonder much. I had M the next year and she's beautiful and intelligent.  Everything a mother could possibly want!

I do remember asking the nurse going into surgery if they could have the embryo baptized.  I don't know if they did or didn't.

ootmother2

add on.

I read mica's article and I agree that a choice had to be made. I would have died if they hadn't operated.  The embryo would die either way although I do remember asking if they couldn't transplant it to my uterus where it could grow.  Perhaps today something like that is possible, I don't know.  But it wasn't possible then.

The mom of one of M's school chums had an ectopic about 15 years ago and they were able to remove the embryo by laparoscopy.  That may be the right way it's done now.

Either way, an ecoptic pregnancy cannot be saved

clearheavens

The Church teaches that abortion, which is the direct and intentional killing of a fetus, is murder and a sin.

In the case of ectopic pregnancy, we have to look closer at Catholic bioethics.  In this situation, the fertilized egg plants itself in the fallopian tube (or elsewhere) where the fetus has no chance of reaching full term.  And while it's there, it's fatal for Mom.  Moral principles can be applied in ruling out options for couples who are facing this.  The Church calls for medical treatment that respects the lives of both Mom and the unborn baby.

The most common treatment is that the diseased part of the tube is removed, and in the process, her fetus will die.  Mom lives.  The death of her fetus is an indirect and unintended consequence.  While removing the tube, if we had the technology to move her fetus from the tube to the uterus, we would obviously do it and fetus will hopefully live to full term.  This is the Principle of Double Effect.

St. Thomas Aquinas (a Doctor of the Church) was the first to write about it in his work, Summa Theologica.  It was a very influential Western civilization work and a classic for all philosophy and theology students, Catholic and non-Catholic alike.  You can read more about the Principle of Double Effect here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_double_effect

On the other hand, a treatment that isn't acceptable to the Church is if there's direct and intentional harm done to the fetus like in the case of a chemical abortion using methotrexate.  You have to clearly distinguish between a direct and intentional treatment of a diesease or indirectly and unintentionally causing the death of either Mom or fetus to save one or both of them.

If you or me or any of our friends face such a grave situation, don't feel like you gotta go at it alone.  You can contact the Pope Paul VI institute in Nebraska and Catholic bioethicists and physicians will help you out reviewing all your choices in cases like these.  That's what they're there for.

http://www.popepaulvi.com/

St. Gianna was born in the 20th century.  Her story is very similar to this.  In the 1960s, she had a fibroma on her uterus.  Being a physician and a Catholic, she was aware that the Church allowed her to make one of two choices: 1. have a hystorectomy, which would abort her fetus as an unintended side-effect, or 2. go on with the pregnancy and take her chances.  (In her case, there was some chance.)  She made the latter choice.

You can read more about her life here:

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20040516_beretta-molla_en.html

bel138

If I let my medical brain take over on matters of pregnancy and children, I would be reduced to cowering in a corner rocking back and forth based on what I've seen and confining any future children to a bubble not to be let out my sight. But those things are RARE and can't rule your life. An ectopic pregnancy isn't exceedingly rare, but still not something that happens to every woman.

As PP said, there is no chance for survival of the baby. A procedure to remove the tube is permissible, since it is a medical procedure which sole purpose is not to directly harm the embryo. There are many other surgeries that may be required in pregnancy. They all come with the risk of harming the fetus, but if they are truly needed to save mom's life, that risk can be taken. The others have given great resources.

Calypso1977

is there any way that the embryo could be removed from the tube and inserted into the uterus to give it a chance to try to implant where its supposed to implant?

mica178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_ectopic-pregnancy?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:176bc8f8-c92d-40f3-bf3e-ca8c20658d35Post:7db5dd5a-2584-4776-94e4-4238e1cf2f7d">Re: Ectopic Pregnancy</a>:
[QUOTE]is there any way that the embryo could be removed from the tube and inserted into the uterus to give it a chance to try to implant where its supposed to implant?
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

<div>That's been attempted in the past with very poor results.  I"m not sure if it's that the embryo couldn't develop properly while in the fallopian tube or if it's the stress of transplantation, but most of the pregnancies did not continue, and those that did had a high infant mortality.  I think most physicians do not attempt it any longer.</div>

Jasmine&Rajah

I didn't interpret Calypso's post as panicking about something negative that could happen during pregnancy, but rather as, "In this situation, what would I be called to do, as a Christian?" 

oot, I am so sorry to hear that you had to suffer through that.  I thank and praise God that you were blessed with your daughter.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_ectopic-pregnancy?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:176bc8f8-c92d-40f3-bf3e-ca8c20658d35Post:af52fc63-d2fa-463e-9594-7e323cf7a5f8">Re: Ectopic Pregnancy</a>:
[QUOTE]I didn't interpret Calypso's post as panicking about something negative that could happen during pregnancy, but rather as, "In this situation, what would I be called to do, as a Christian?"  oot, I am so sorry to hear that you had to suffer through that.  I thank and praise God that you were blessed with your daughter.
Posted by Jasmine&Rajah[/QUOTE]

ditto all of this!

rkatz8

it is permissable by the Church to remove the fallopian tube if it is deemed medically necessary, taking the fetus with it. it is not permissable to simply abort the fetus. it is also permissable to attempt to move the fetus to the ovary and try it that way. that is the baby's and the mother's best chance at living and staying healthy, so that seems like the win-win situation there.