Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...

afrenchprincess

If you and your fiance or spouse met because both of you were in an affair with each other. Can you still have a valid marriage? How do you reconile this with God and the church?

You have an annulment so it is valid. But somebody was tellig me that God does not approve of this marriage. I know that what happened was wrong however it is still a valid marriage.

A parent doesn't want to attend the wedding as they feel as it is a 
sinful marriage"

monkeysip

If both of the people truly repented, then they would be forgiven of their sin.

Assuming that the first marriage wasn't valid, and was annuled, then they would be free to marry.

HOWEVER, I would suggest lots of counseling for this couple.  The affair might have been the result of some real problems going on for the woman or the man, and the affair might cause some problems of distrust and insecurity in their relationship.  Knowing that they cheated on their first spouses, it might make them wonder about each other whether they can stay faithful to their next spouse.

I think it's something that each couple needs to talk to their priest about and REALLY meditate on to make sure that they are ready to make a true, faithful, lifelong commitment.  And to make sure that their relationship is built on selfless love, not infatuation and attraction.

But I don't think there's any general rule against a couple like that marrying. 

lalaith50

I'm so confused. How does one be in an affair and then meet? Don't you have to know each other at least somewhat in order to have an affair?

But if monkey understands the question and I totally don't, then her answer sounds good to me! :-)

afrenchprincess

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:03f7a9a5-f7a0-45cf-90b0-8ad67ff552c4">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]If both of the people truly repented, then they would be forgiven of their sin. Assuming that the first marriage wasn't valid, and was annuled, then they would be free to marry. HOWEVER, I would suggest lots of counseling for this couple.  The affair might have been the result of some real problems going on for the woman or the man, and the affair might cause some problems of distrust and insecurity in their relationship.  Knowing that they cheated on their first spouses, it might make them wonder about each other whether they can stay faithful to their next spouse. I think it's something that each couple needs to talk to their priest about and REALLY meditate on to make sure that they are ready to make a true, faithful, lifelong commitment.  And to make sure that their relationship is built on selfless love, not infatuation and attraction. But I don't think there's any general rule against a couple like that marrying. 
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]<div>Yes both marriages annuled and yes people seem to forget that you can truly repent and be forgiven, It was wrong, very wrong however you can move past that once you feel that you have conconquered all those demons. Thanks you were very insightful.</div><div>
</div>

afrenchprincess

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:9f99276d-6eff-46a3-8ecd-0f243f832502">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm so confused. How does one be in an affair and then  meet? Don't you have to know each other at least somewhat in order  to have an affair? But if monkey understands the question and I totally don't, then her answer sounds good to me! :-)
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]<div>I'm confused as to what you are asking. But, I'm glad somebody else understood what I was saying. Thanks anyway.

</div>

Calypso1977

i get it.

Jason and Jane are married
John and Susan are married

John has an affair with Jane

Jane leaves Jason, divorces, gets annulment
John leaves Susan, divorces, gets annulment

Jane and John want to get married in the church.

While their relationship started out sinful, they are technically free to marry in the church.  i would hope taht both would make a full, sincere confession as well.

not sure why people would frown on this.  it is what it is, and hopefully the graces of a valid marriage would help them both stay faithful to one another and get each other to heaven.

monkeysip

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:d3fcbf76-250d-499b-b94b-7556bfef5d5d">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]i get it. Jason and Jane are married John and Susan are married John has an affair with Jane Jane leaves Jason, divorces, gets annulment John leaves Susan, divorces, gets annulment Jane and John want to get married in the church. While their relationship started out sinful, they are technically free to marry in the church.  i would hope taht both would make a full, sincere confession as well. not sure why people would frown on this.  it is what it is, and hopefully the graces of a valid marriage would help them both stay faithful to one another and get each other to heaven.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Calypso, but I will add that it can definitely lead to some angry and sad feelings.

I knew a woman who was married for many years, what she thought was a completely valid and happy marriage.  Her husband cheated, divorced her, and was granted an annulment (I don't know what reason it was granted... it wasn't an obvious reason like lack of Catholic form or anything).  Now her ex-H and his former mistress are now remarried in the Church, and the woman felt really bitter about it.  She lost the only man she loved, whom she was married to for years, and now he was happily and validly remarried to someone else.  She felt like it was really unfair.

I'm not saying she was necessarily right.  Maybe her Ex-H repented of his sin, and was fully in grace with his new wife.  If so, then there's nothing wrong with that.  But I can definitely understand why his old wife felt upset about it.

Of course, that's the difficulty with annulments in general.  Maybe the marriage wasn't really valid, but sometimes, for at least one of the spouses, it felt perfectly valid, and when the other spouse leaves it seems unfair for the Church to legitimize it.

Calypso1977

I knew a woman who was married for many years, what she thought was a completely valid and happy marriage. Her husband cheated, divorced her, and was granted an annulment (I don't know what reason it was granted... it wasn't an obvious reason like lack of Catholic form or anything). Now her ex-H and his former mistress are now remarried in the Church, and the woman felt really bitter about it. She lost the only man she loved, whom she was married to for years, and now he was happily and validly remarried to someone else. She felt like it was really unfair.

i can see that.  but at the same time, the wife is now also free to marry again and find happiness.  often times, people think they are happy and that their marriage is great, until its over and they find someone else and then realize how bad the marriage was.

what's alwasy sad in any divorce or annulment is when children are involved. 

Calypso1977

did anyone read that  book by Sheila Kennedy?  it actually explains a similar situation to what monkey wrote about.  she fought her annulment and lost and was very resentful towards her ex-husband.  i believe she even appealed it.  not sure what happened tho.
i think at the time, legitimacy of the children was a concern but now of course it isnt.

monkeysip

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:e9296c1b-7562-4598-9aac-278fadb39ef2">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE] i can see that.  but at the same time, the wife is now also free to marry again and find happiness.  often times, people think they are happy and that their marriage is great, until its over and they find someone else and then realize how bad the marriage was. what's alwasy sad in any divorce or annulment is when children are involved. 
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

True.  And she did have children with him.  I don't talk to her anymore, but I hope she was able to heal from that.

Calypso1977

i feel so bad for kids with divorced parents.  i couldnt even imagine if i had only gotten to see my dad a couple of days per month or every other holiday.
even in the best, most friendly situations, it really affects them more than people realize.

monkeysip

  I know

My Dad left when I was four, and since then, I've only seen him a few times a year.

But at least when I do see him, he's always tried to be a good Dad, and he did pay good child support.  So I know I had it better than kids whose fathers just disappeared and never came back.

afrenchprincess

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:e9296c1b-7562-4598-9aac-278fadb39ef2">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]I knew a woman who was married for many years, what she thought was a completely valid and happy marriage. Her husband cheated, divorced her, and was granted an annulment (I don't know what reason it was granted... it wasn't an obvious reason like lack of Catholic form or anything). Now her ex-H and his former mistress are now remarried in the Church, and the woman felt really bitter about it. She lost the only man she loved, whom she was married to for years, and now he was happily and validly remarried to someone else. She felt like it was really unfair. i can see that.  but at the same time, the wife is now also free to marry again and find happiness.  often times, people think they are happy and that their marriage is great, until its over and they find someone else and then realize how bad the marriage was. what's alwasy sad in any divorce or annulment is when children are involved. 
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

<div>There were no  children involved in either marriage. At least inncoent children didn't have to get hurt. That is one of the few "good" things that I can say about this situation.</div>

Calypso1977

french, what's kind of funny is how many people are out there wtih this very same situation, and people dont know about it.  so those taht are saying this marriage wont be accepted by God, etc. could look happy upon another couple wiht the same situation that they are just oblivious to, either because they didnt know them at the time they got married or the affair was not public.

my aunt and uncle have been married nearly 30 years.  im sure there are many people in their lives (not family, but co-workers, neighbors, friends) that probably have no idea that each of them were married before to someone else.

everyone has a past.  everyone has sinned and made mistakes.  you know the truth and god knows the truth and what others think is their problem, not yours.

Riss91

My friend's father is currently fighting an annulment.... out of spite.

They divorced years ago, but his (ex) wife is filing annulment papers now. They split up because he was not taking part in the marriage, in raising the children (the wife was a night nurse and he would sneak out when the children were asleep to go to bars and drink, leaving the children home alone with the sliding glass door unlocked) and he later came out of the closet. He has been living with his new husband (not sure if they are legally married, but they wear rings) for about 8 years.

He is responding to the annulment saying he is not gay and therefore invalidating her testimony and the testimony of many other family members and friends.

I feel awful for my friend's mother, who is trying to bring herself back into good grace and might not be able to.

afrenchprincess

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:04e9e648-0748-404e-8e73-dc8eaea8b964">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]french, what's kind of funny is how many people are out there wtih this very same situation, and people dont know about it.  so those taht are saying this marriage wont be accepted by God, etc. could look happy upon another couple wiht the same situation that they are just oblivious to, either because they didnt know them at the time they got married or the affair was not public. my aunt and uncle have been married nearly 30 years.  im sure there are many people in their lives (not family, but co-workers, neighbors, friends) that probably have no idea that each of them were married before to someone else. everyone has a past.  everyone has sinned and made mistakes.  you know the truth and god knows the truth and what others think is their problem, not yours.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
I totally agree and understand what you are saying. This was not take lightly at all. I know that is hard to believe. However, it is true. I just get the whole "Your marriage will be doomed!" "I don't care if you repented, you will be punished for what you two did!" "You can't expect to have a good and valid marriage." It's very sad and disheartening and I understand why this brings up anger and emotion in people. However, we have done LOTS of counseling, talking, etc. and our previous marriages were annuled for reasons that the Church felt was valid enough to allow us to freely marry again. So, it's just hard when you are trying but you hear that it will never be good enough! It makes you question is this (marriage) wrong? 

agapecarrie

The priest doing your marriage prep should know about this, as well as any other reservations you have about a catholic marriage and what is involved.

MrsMack10612

This is generally a topic I stay away from and I may have asked this before -

What are the ladies of this board opinion on the annulment of a non-Catholic marriage, so that one of the parties can then be remarried in the Catholic church?

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:df1564fc-4568-4a13-8606-ef59c9c6b556">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]This is generally a topic I stay away from and I may have asked this before - What are the ladies of this board opinion on the annulment of a non-Catholic marriage, so that one of the parties can then be remarried in the Catholic church?
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

<div>I don't know what kind of opinion there is to have? Catholics regard non-Catholic marriages as valid (and if both baptised, sacramental). So, they are not free to marry anyone unless the marriage is proven invalid. We consider them still married.</div>

monkeysip

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:6f352d42-f140-4d8a-a311-95b67bff0bf5">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with... : I totally agree and understand what you are saying. This was not take lightly at all. I know that is hard to believe. However, it is true. I just get the whole "Your marriage will be doomed!" "I don't care if you repented, you will be punished for what you two did!" "You can't expect to have a good and valid marriage." It's very sad and disheartening and I understand why this brings up anger and emotion in people. However, we have done LOTS of counseling, talking, etc. and our previous marriages were annuled for reasons that the Church felt was valid enough to allow us to freely marry again. So, it's just hard when you are trying but you hear that it will never be good enough! It makes you question is this (marriage) wrong? 
Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]

French, you need to worry about you, your fiance (husband yet?), priest, and God.  That's it.  People will talk, but as long as you've made things right, don't listen to judgmental people.

The only thing I will add is that an apology to the exes is a good thing too.  I know that if my Dad had ever apologized to my mom for the affair and divorce, it would've done wonders.

MrsMack10612

Except why should the Catholic Church hold judgement over a marriage that was not performed in their sacrament to begin with. 

But to me that shows the arrogance of the Catholic Church that they feel they can be the makers or breakers of any Christian marriage regardless of whether it was Catholic or not.

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:ad1c00a4-bacc-4ae7-be25-dd08acddfdf8">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]Except why should the Catholic Church hold judgement over a marriage that was not performed in their sacrament to begin with.  But to me that shows the arrogance of the Catholic Church that they feel they can be the makers or breakers of any Christian marriage regardless of whether it was Catholic or not.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

<div>It is God's and Divine law that determines marriage, not "Catholic rules". The church follows these laws in her determination. Free, total, faithful and fruitful. It's a GOOD thing that the church recognizes other marriages as valid, as even non-baptized can have a valid marriage. Out of charity, she realizes that just like some of her own members, some people have an impediment, and researches what is there. </div><div>
</div><div>It has nothing to do with arrogance.  It has to do with God's standard of what a marriage is. </div>

MrsMack10612

No, it has to do with the Catholic Church's interpretation of God's standard of what marriage is.

If it were God's standard than other churches would also find the need to annul marriages and as far as I know (I could be wrong) non-Catholic Christian churches do not.

Therefore it is arrogance thinking they know better than other Christian sects.

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:51868831-bfbf-4354-be0c-70b384fc4994">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]No, it has to do with the Catholic Church's interpretation of God's standard of what marriage is. If it were God's standard than other churches would also find the need to annul marriages and as far as I know (I could be wrong) non-Catholic Christian churches do not. Therefore it is arrogance thinking they know better than other Christian sects.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

<div>Not at all. It's pretty clear in scripture that marriage is for life. Most protestant faiths allow people to divorce and remarry. </div><div>
</div><div>The church holds authority given to her by Christ in Matthew 16. The church goes back to the time of Christ (historical fact) when he established her and promised the Holy Spirit to guide her. </div>

lalaith50

[QUOTE] If it were God's standard than other churches would also find the need to annul marriages and as far as I know (I could be wrong) non-Catholic Christian churches do not. 
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]<div>Well maybe they should! They are certainly wrong on many other things... why are you assuming they are not wrong in this?

ETA: Your "<strong>If</strong> it were God's standard <strong>THEN</strong>..." logic seems rather flawed to me.
<div>
</div></div>

MrsMack10612

But Protestant faiths do not feel the need to determine that the other marriage was invalid.

Lalaith - who are you to say they are wrong?  Just because it is not the Catholic way; or scripture is interpreted differently does not make it wrong.

lalaith50

Protestants disagree even with each other. That's why there are so many denominations. Therefore, logically, they can't ALL agree on EVERYTHING. Someone must be wrong about some things, so why are you assuming they AREN'T wrong in not holding marriage so highly that they don't find it necessary to give annulments?

ETA: I hope that made sense. That's why I can say they are wrong about "some things" - because they can't all be right about everything.

MrsMack10612

Actually the majority of break offs to form other denominations were mostly political within the church themselves because somebody stole somebody else's pig or something equally foolish.  It generally had very little to do with religous disagreements.

Additionally, disagreeing doesn't make it wrong.  Diffierent interpretations does not make it wrong.  Protestant churches do not believe in transubstantiation (not sure if I spelled that right); it doesn't mean they don't take communion just as seriously.  Who says they don't  hold it as highly?  A marriage does not have to be found invalid to know that it was a bad idea and perhaps two people should not have gotten married in the first place.  I know that some of the reasons looked at for annulments is lack of maturity or not going into the marriage freely.  People can be 100% sure that they are mature enough to get married - it doesn't mean that however many years down the road the couple decides maybe they weren't as ready as they thought.  It doesn't mean those years were invalid.  They are still an important part of their lives and how they grew as people - even if they grew apart.

That's what I mean about the arrogance - a lot of you on this board present the face that if it isn't the Catholic way it's wrong.

MrsMack10612

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-to-somebody-you-had-an-affair-with?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:28f7ed84-e34e-4fe5-aa37-21b3f4353897Post:9cd8ca57-80a6-49d6-ad45-9db5394a6b99">Re: Marriage to somebody you had an affair with...</a>:
[QUOTE]Well maybe they should! They are certainly wrong on many other things... why are you assuming they are not wrong in this? <strong>ETA: Your " If it were God's standard THEN ..." logic seems rather flawed to me.
</strong>Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

Why is it flawed?  Since a good deal of difference between the Catholic Church and most other Christian faiths has a lot to do with the intepretation of scripture; if the Catholic Church's standard for marriage was in fact God's standard, I think there would more Christian sects that had the same view.  The majority of them to frown on divorce and believe marrige is forever; however, if something goes awry they do not feel the need to invalidate a portion of persons life.

On that note, I am leaving my office and will not have access to a computer for the weekend.

I realize I shouldn't have started this as this is a sensative topic for me.  I meant no offense to anyone; but I was hoping to perhaps get more dialogue than just a spouting of Church dogma and maybe a little understanding how non-Catholics can feel violated by that particular act fo the Church.

lalaith50

Well, if I (or I'm sure most of us on this board) did think another way was more "right" than the Catholic way, we wouldn't be Catholic! Why does the fact that we believe in our faith and don't have a problem telling what our Church teaches to others, bother you?

Why is it such a horrible thing for someone to say "I am right and you are wrong."?

We can't both be right. Truth is not relative.

monkeysip

What would be more arrogant?

For the Catholic Church to recognize that the Protestant Church does have valid marriages, and therefore, if a Protestant wants to get remarried in the Catholic Church, they must get it annuled first?

*OR* for the Catholic Church to decide that there are no valid marriages outside the Catholic Church, and therefore, a Protestant is free to get remarried in the Catholic Church since there's no way their first marriage could have ever been valid in the first place?

Those are the only two logical options.  I don't find the first option arrogant at all.  The latter would be arrogant.