Catholic wedding

doctabroccoli

Calypso - Neither?  Lol.  I was at a conference at Mt. Holyoke, but because there are a lot of international attendees, they bus people in and out of Boston instead of Hartford.

And Waterfall - he lost his faith as in he doesn't seem to believe in God anymore, or because he has issues with some Catholic-specific doctrine?

OutOfTheBlue612

I just randomly got an e-mail from TK telling me that doctabroccoli posted in this thread. Utterly bizarre. Maybe it's TK's way of telling me I should post on the Catholic board.

doctabroccoli

You probably accidentally subscribed to the thread. I've done that a few times on my phone by accident . At the top of the thread in the green box, it should say something about emailing replies. Click that and the emails will stop!

OutOfTheBlue612

Way to be all logical, it was funnier to just assume things my way.

Louisa1000

Something interesting that i learned was that while your abilitiy to produce children does not affect the validity of your marriage, your ability to consummate the marriage does (as well as being open to life). Could this be what some of these priests were trying to ask? That would make more sense to me.

rubyf

they do ask questions to see if you and your fiance are entering the sacrament of marriage willingly and generally on the same page on things.  If  they find that there are discrepencies in your answers, they will provide you with guidance and understanding (basically they talk to you).  The more strict churches will obviously be more rigid about the process.  Not going to church will not be a reason they will not let you get married in the church

jazzybacc

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:d6e9aa41-2d99-4237-aa58-4ab3da65f56f">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic wedding : I have to say that this comment rubs me the wrong way.  The implication is that being "old-fashioned" in this respect is a negative thing.
Posted by Jasmine&Rajah[/QUOTE]

I was gone all weekend, otherwise I would have responded sooner... I'm sorry that you interpreted my statement that way, but that's not how I feel.  Times change and being frowned upon because my fiance and I wish to live under the same roof rubs me the wrong way.  I respect couples who have the will power to "do as the Bible says" but personally I think that's not "the norm" anymore, so yes, it is old fashioned.  That does not mean it's a bad thing.. your implication, not mine.  There are a ton of old fashioned things that are way popular still... milk shakes, old cars, etc.  Again, I'm sorry you misread my intentions of the statement.  I simply meant to say that I think the church needs to rethink the <em>mandate </em>of having couples live separately before marriage.

lisa89760

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:e464f63d-3eb7-4016-9fac-205f69a4c839">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]docta, whatcha doing in Boston? you staying or passing through? yeah, teh old fashioned thing annoyed me too.  but whatevs. i also think its very erroneous when folks say "the priest doesnt care at all that we live together".  i guarantee you they do, but they are stlil happy to marry you.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

I can say that my priest 100% does not care that my FI and I live together, we've talked about outside of church (he is a relative) and he's even been to our house and asks about "our house".

He's talked to a lot of my cousins and I about he understands that times are different now so it's a lot more common for couples to live together before marriage.  He obviously doesn't want this neices and nephews to be living with tons of people before marriage but he sees why and how couples now do live with each other prior to marriage and why it's sometimes a good thing.   He also sees why couples use artifical birth control and even encouraged the couple leading our marriage workshop to talk about using what is best for the individual couple.  I would say him and our parish and a lot more "liberal" than some others I've been to (including my high school's parish) **liberal is in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right word to use but I can't think of anything else**

I think it depends on the priest...there are some priests that will care more than others, but I agree with PP that it's really none of the priests business if you have health problems that could possibly prevent you from having children. 

NotColloquial

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:c681aa82-fefa-44f1-9323-a0ce850c6e9b">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]We don't plan to have children, although we won't be using birth control. If we do have children, they will be raised Catholic.
Posted by waterfalllady84[/QUOTE]


FI and I live together and neither of us regularly attend Church. Neither of these were an issue.

What you said right here will have every single priest reject you. Change your tune or get married somewhere else.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:70dd3343-51e9-4be6-8595-be24a62a3178">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic wedding : FI and I live together and neither of us regularly attend Church. Neither of these were an issue. What you said right here will have every single priest reject you. Change your tune or get married somewhere else.
Posted by NotColloquial[/QUOTE]

Not Colloquial, you gotta read the rest of the thread before responding. She said that they believe they will not be able to have children, not that they weren't open to having them. So a priest will not reject them and they will not have to get married somewhere else.

And, to be honest, not regularly attending church should be a huge flag for a priest. I hope yours encouraged you to attend mass regularly.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:74188813-cd25-42f1-8946-42bdc0b8a115">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic wedding : I can say that my priest 100% does not care that my FI and I live together, we've talked about outside of church (he is a relative) and he's even been to our house and asks about "our house". He's talked to a lot of my cousins and I about he understands that times are different now so it's a lot more common for couples to live together before marriage.  He obviously doesn't want this neices and nephews to be living with tons of people before marriage but he sees why and how couples now do live with each other prior to marriage and why it's sometimes a good thing.   He also sees why couples use artifical birth control and even encouraged the couple leading our marriage workshop to talk about using what is best for the individual couple.  I would say him and our parish and a lot more "liberal" than some others I've been to (including my high school's parish) **liberal is in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right word to use but I can't think of anything else** I think it depends on the priest...there are some priests that will care more than others, but I agree with PP that it's really none of the priests business if you have health problems that could possibly prevent you from having children. 
Posted by lisa89760[/QUOTE]

Lisa, your priest should care. Calypso didn't say that the priest shouldn't permit you to live together, she just said that it is something he should concern himself with as it is against Church teachings.

I don't care how "liberal" a priest or a parish is, there is never an instance where a priest should explicitly encourage or allow his congregation to actively go against Church teachings. It is disgraceful to the Church and to those of us that uphold its beliefs. This doesn't mean the priest should refuse to marry a couple that is living together, just that he should encourage everyone to adhere to the Church's teachings.

Asking NFP teachers to encourage ABC (except for in extreme health circumstances where other options do not exist) is grounds for dismissal in my opinion. ABC use is strictly against Church teachings.

As far as it being the priest's "business" to be concerned with your reproductive health, again, the Church teaching requires the priest to be aware of any situation that would prevent the consummation of the marriage (ie impotence). This is not the same as having trouble reproducing, but if a couple is certain of impotence, this is something the priest must be aware of.

lisa89760

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:d5b62062-3b90-48a0-a52a-8121f7b4d4ed">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic wedding : Lisa, your priest should care. Calypso didn't say that the priest shouldn't permit you to live together, she just said that it is something he should concern himself with as it is against Church teachings. I don't care how "liberal" a priest or a parish is, there is never an instance where a priest should explicitly encourage or allow his congregation to actively go against Church teachings. It is disgraceful to the Church and to those of us that uphold its beliefs. This doesn't mean the priest should refuse to marry a couple that is living together, just that he should encourage everyone to adhere to the Church's teachings. Asking NFP teachers to encourage ABC (except for in extreme health circumstances where other options do not exist) is grounds for dismissal in my opinion. ABC use is strictly against Church teachings. As far as it being the priest's "business" to be concerned with your reproductive health, again, the Church teaching requires the priest to be aware of any situation that would prevent the consummation of the marriage (ie impotence). This is not the same as having trouble reproducing, but if a couple is certain of impotence, this is something the priest must be aware of.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

I think theres a difference between caring and understanding that there are situations out there and I think he understands that.  He obviously knows what the church's teachings are but I don't see the difference between understanding that there are a lot of couples out there that do live together

And it wasn't an NFP class I was in, it was our pre marriage counsling with a sponser couple.  He wasn't the one that said it because obviously a priest isn't going to say go use birth control but the couple said that he knows we talk about ABC in this class.  I think this goes into the category that he understands that there are situations out there the it might be better for people to use ABC even though that isn't the church's teachings. 

Along the lines of asking if a couple can conceive, I still don't think that's anyone's business.  Yes when we get married in the catholic church we are saying that we want to have children but as the OP said, they aren't going to actively try to NOT have children but there are issues that could prevent them.  All anyone in the church needs to know is that they aren't preventing having children.

There is a huge possiblity that because I'm related to this priest that he approaches me pre-marriage things a little differently than everyone else.  But I appreciate having someone marry me that is understanding to different situations and still loves and cares for me.  So it could be possible as why he is so accepting of my lifestyle, is because I'm his niece and would love and support me no matter what.

lisa89760

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:7313b4b9-6666-468c-bf86-fb129e2653e6">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic wedding : Not Colloquial, you gotta read the rest of the thread before responding. She said that they believe they will not be able to have children, not that they weren't open to having them. So a priest will not reject them and they will not have to get married somewhere else. <strong>And, to be honest, not regularly attending church should be a huge flag for a priest. I hope yours encouraged you to attend mass regularly.
</strong>Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

I agree with this...I get the talk from my uncle if he doesn't see me for a few weeks (which has been the case as we go to different parishes a lot)

Riss91

lisa, thanks for clarifying... I think we're more on the same page. I believe caring and understanding go hand-in-hand.

I still would expect a priest to be sure that a sponsor couple is not encouraging ABC (unless in extreme health circumstances).

You're correct that the Church's teachings allow for couples to be married that have a small possibility of conceiving (as long as they are open to children). I do believe, however, that there is a difference between having trouble conceiving and importence. See below.

Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.

bibliophile2010

Lisa, have you had any of your pre-marital work done with priests besides your uncle? I just wonder if you would have gotten different answers had you worked with someone who does not have the vested interest in maintaining family peace. Not that your uncle can't provide great pastoral care in a lot of situations, but I know I wouldn't be comfortable telling my family that they need to shape up if it is a hard conversation.

That said, I agree that we should all, especially our priests (leading by example), love and care for one another no matter what. It's just that sometimes loving someone means telling them the truth: that living together outside of marriage, having premarital sex, and using ABC are against Catholic teaching. What someone does after that is their business, and I know that sometimes its hard to do those things. Change often comes slowly. I think the witness of others helps. People here, on this board, have shown that it is possible to stop sex until marriage, to live as brother and sister, and use NFP effectively.

Ditto Riss on the impotence issue. I also think that a couple who openly plans to use ABC or perpetually TTA using NFP should be counseled appropriately. That is a priest's business, because he's concerned with creating strong, valid, holy marriages among his flock.

Finally, I 100% agree that irregular church attendance should not prevent marriage. However, I would strongly encourage the couple to make a change.

lisa89760

Biblio - No I've only met with my uncle and his deacon.  And it's extremely possible that if I met with a different priest I would hear something different. 

And I should clarify that the sponser couple didn't tell us that we should use ABC but rather that the church teaches us to you NFP and explained all of that but added that they are other way for birth control not sanctioned by the church and talked about that for a little.  I think she threw in the "Father knows we say this" because I was there and she knew it was my uncle and didn't want to get in trouble haha  I actually thought the last part about ABC was a little redudant since we were all adults and knew what ABC was but maybe some people didn't?

And I agree its the priests business to know if a couple does not plan on having children but I don't think anyone should have to go in details about their health issues - and Riss that passage was good, and I totally agree on the impotence issue. 

Calypso1977

I don't care how "liberal" a priest or a parish is, there is never an instance where a priest should explicitly encourage or allow his congregation to actively go against Church teachings. It is disgraceful to the Church and to those of us that uphold its beliefs. This doesn't mean the priest should refuse to marry a couple that is living together, just that he should encourage everyone to adhere to the Church's teachings.

Asking NFP teachers to encourage ABC (except for in extreme health circumstances where other options do not exist) is grounds for dismissal in my opinion. ABC use is strictly against Church teachings.

As far as it being the priest's "business" to be concerned with your reproductive health, again, the Church teaching requires the priest to be aware of any situation that would prevent the consummation of the marriage (ie impotence). This is not the same as having trouble reproducing, but if a couple is certain of impotence, this is something the priest must be aware of.

This.

I am starting to equate some of these "liberal" priests with parents who like to be "friends" with their children.  your priest is not your friend.  he's your priest, your spirtutal leader, and he has a responsibility to help lead you down the right path.  there may be times he tells you things you dont like or dont want to hear.  but you need to hear them and then formulate your decisions and choices from there.

there is a big difference between being "friendly" with someone and being "friends".

waterfalllady84

First of all, I never wanted to reveal my current inability to have children. I understad that some people were confused by my statement that I planned not to use birth control but I also planned not to have children.

I'm wondering if I can get this thread deleted. I felt forced to give out information that was very personal to me and had every aspect of it analyzed. The initial question was if we could be married in a church despite my fiancee's lack of Catholic religion. The reproductive part is something I can go over with my priest, and I felt forced to share that information because of opinions other board members were posting. This was my first serious question I posted.

Thank you for all your opinion but I've made my decision about what to do.

lisa89760

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:452b86d5-6bda-495d-93bd-b51c085e6423Post:4dfb3bbd-f2dc-47a6-9428-5b7af829a719">Re: Catholic wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't care how "liberal" a priest or a parish is, there is never an instance where a priest should explicitly encourage or allow his congregation to actively go against Church teachings. It is disgraceful to the Church and to those of us that uphold its beliefs. This doesn't mean the priest should refuse to marry a couple that is living together, just that he should encourage everyone to adhere to the Church's teachings. Asking NFP teachers to encourage ABC (except for in extreme health circumstances where other options do not exist) is grounds for dismissal in my opinion. ABC use is strictly against Church teachings. As far as it being the priest's "business" to be concerned with your reproductive health, again, the Church teaching requires the priest to be aware of any situation that would prevent the consummation of the marriage (ie impotence). This is not the same as having trouble reproducing, but if a couple is certain of impotence, this is something the priest must be aware of. This. I am starting to equate some of these "liberal" priests with parents who like to be "friends" with their children.  your priest is not your friend.  he's your priest, your spirtutal leader, and he has a responsibility to help lead you down the right path.  there may be times he tells you things you dont like or dont want to hear.  but you need to hear them and then formulate your decisions and choices from there. there is a big difference between being "friendly" with someone and being "friends".
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

If you read my response, you would notice that I clarified it's possible that he treated me differently than other people since he is my uncle.  Since he's been around my entire life and baptized me and was there for both my first communion and confirmation, he has been my spirtual leader.  It's probably a tough situation becuase he is my uncle and loves me no matter what my lifestyle, even if I chose not to be catholic he would be there and support me.  My guess is that since he has been my spiritual leader my entire life he didn't touch on certain things like living together. 

And waterfall - I believe you can edit your responses to delete anything you want to take down.  If anyone quoted you though, they will have to delete it.  I'm sure the mods can do something too.  I'm sorry things turned this way and I wish you luck with your meeting with the priest!!

doctabroccoli

I just shot a message to Riss to decide what we want to do.  For the time being, Waterfall, you can edit your own posts to delete information if you feel it to be necessary.

waterfalllady84

The problem is other people have quoted me.

Riss91

hey waterfall -- it seems like the info you had deleted from your own posts is not quoted by others. As moderators, we are not really supposed to delete posts unless they violate the terms of service. There is a lot of great information here that would be very helpful to others in a similar situation, so it would be a shame to get rid of it. Since you're a bit new and didn't realize you were offering up personal info on the internet, please PM me (or docta) and let me (or her) know if there is an individual piece of info you want deleted - we can try to eliminate that stuff specifically from the post. Just be more careful in the future!