Church Not-So-Funny?

Riss91

With yesterday being a holiday, and us hosting family from OOT, we attended a New Mass, instead of our Traditional Latin Mass. During Mass, the priest substituted the word "friends" for "disciples" as follows:

He broke the bread, gave it to his friends, and said: Take this, all of you, and eat it:This is my body which will be given up for you.

 

When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his friends, and said: Take this, all of you, and drink from it:

I guess I was wondering if this is common, since I had never heard this subsititution before and it was a bit alarming to me. We've been to other new masses in the past year and hadn't noticed this. Has anyone else heard this? Thoughts?

agapecarrie

Of course, the priest should not change the words, however..

in the children's Eucharistic prayers, "Friends" is used instead, at least in some of them. I'm not a fan of the children's Eucharistic prayers as it really dumbs things down, but it is a legit sanctioned EP to use at masses for children. It probably makes the substitution in his mind not as bad as making up something completely on his own. Perhaps it was even a mistake.

Meg1036

I am pretty sure I have heard this before.  Maybe even at my own parish?  I'm not sure - now I will definitely try to notice next weekend!

Riss91

ah...maybe it was a "Children's Mass" for Father's Day? I'm glad that it is legitimate - I was a bit worried, thinking that at some point the priest would be like "Then the Big Guy grabbed a chunk of bread, tossed it to his buds and was like "Dude! Try this stuff..."

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:27622be6-caf9-42ac-bbf3-0eb74a136145">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]"Then the Big Guy grabbed a chunk of bread, tossed it to his buds and was like "Dude! Try this stuff..."
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

*Snort*  Yeah, that would not be good.

Anyway, I don't hear it regularly, but I believe I have heard it before.  Maybe back in elementary school at our weekly in-school masses, but I couldn't say for sure......

lisa89760

I've heard it before - I think PP's are right that it's for the children's mass, because I believe thats when I hear it. 

ootmother2

I've heard the term "friends" used more than once but I must say that I've never thought twice about it.

One other thing I hear in the mass which seems different from one church to the next is the phrase

"Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but speak the word, and I shall be healed"

Some priests then say, "and that word is always given."

This latter one is mostly at a church with Franciscan priests.  Perhaps it's just the way in that order?

bibliophile2010

Why friends? What's wrong with disciples? There's nothing objectionable to the term. I get that it is in the children's EPs, but I don't really care for them generally.

OOT, I've been to several Franciscan masses, and I've never heard "speak" instead of "say," but to me, that's not such a big deal (and is going to be changed with the new translation anyway), though it does imply vocalization that God doesn't always do in this age.

I'm ready for the new Roman Missal. I hope it cleans some of this stuff up.

catarntina

Never heard "Friends" before.  Not even when I was in Kindergarten going to Catholic school.

agapecarrie

That part isn't changing , we still say "say the word" it's the line before hand that changes.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:e110cacc-b78f-4f07-81a5-5d346a6bc699">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]Never heard "Friends" before.  Not even when I was in Kindergarten going to Catholic school.
Posted by catarntina[/QUOTE]

My husband hadn't either... he was a bit confused!

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:27622be6-caf9-42ac-bbf3-0eb74a136145">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]ah...maybe it was a "Children's Mass" for Father's Day? I'm glad that it is legitimate - I was a bit worried, thinking that at some point the priest would be like "Then the Big Guy grabbed a chunk of bread, tossed it to his buds and was like "Dude! Try this stuff..."
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

LOL that just put a HILARIOUS image in my head.

waterfalllady84

They say "friends" at the children's masses.

Riss91

Other there other changes that are made for children's masses? This was the only one I noticed.

We attend the Latin Mass, (which would be pre-Vatican II) primarily because of the liberties taken with the translation of the new mass. It's nice that no matter which Latin Mass I go to, the words never, ever change!  I'd be pretty happy if our Bishop were more encouraging of the Latin Mass. Why are people unhappy with your Bishop?

agapecarrie

Riss,

There are several other allowances for children's masses, some might be surprising. One is that if a priest is not gifted to speak to children, that a lay person may do so at the homily time (of course, it isn't called a homily then). Not saying I like it, but its definitely in print in the children's lectionary (or possibly in the sacramentary near the children's eucharistic prayers, can't remember). Some of the EP's include brief musical acclamations throughout (more than the usual).

I've heard that these are going to be reviewed at some point (the church takes forever) and that its gonna go away. I believe though they can still be used even after advent this year.

Sanine

It is a part of the children's service. I went to the children's mass at my church for years due to having to work Saturday nights and not wanting to get up at 7 on Sundays. Anyways the readings are adapted to a simpler form for the children including the gospel readings. Like you noticed the word "disciples" is substituted with "friends," and as a PP said there is more singing during the Eucharistic Prayers. Growing up and going to the children's mass it was a song "glory, glory to god, praise and honor his name." something like that, now the new pastor of my church changed it to a phrase that is sung. I cannot remember it though. Growing up I remember the Lay ministers giving the homily and that the prayers after the homily were said by the children. Those are what I can remember from the children's service. Its been a while since I have gone to the children's mass. 

A few months ago my priest did say that the mass will return back to the Latin mass or similar to the Latin mass starting in the fall. I want to say he mentioned September or October this year but I don't remember exactly, but I got the impression from him that it would be reverting back to pre Vatican II. 

bibliophile2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:c544499c-d057-4237-bd3f-360ae29df00f">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]A few months ago my priest did say that the mass will return back to the Latin mass or similar to the Latin mass starting in the fall. I want to say he mentioned September or October this year but I don't remember exactly, but I got the impression from him that it would be reverting back to pre Vatican II. 
Posted by Sanine[/QUOTE]

Beginning on the first Sunday of Advent this year, a new translation of the mass (which will now be called the Roman Missal) will be instituted in all English-speaking countries. The text is a much (MUCH) more accurate translation of the Latin. It is not a return to Latin (the text is still in English), nor is it a reversion to pre-Vatican II (though it will hopefully correct some abuses that cropped up in the years following Vatican II).

This website has more information for you if you are interested: <a href="http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/</a>

Sanine

Thanks for the clarification Bibliophile. I have been wondering about it and waiting for my priest to mention more about it. I feel like I some reading to do now  

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:d3ef113f-9358-41e4-b3a8-56c738fae8ba">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : Beginning on the first Sunday of Advent this year, a new translation of the mass (which will now be called the Roman Missal) will be instituted in all English-speaking countries. The text is a much (MUCH) more accurate translation of the Latin. It is not a return to Latin (the text is still in English), nor is it a reversion to pre-Vatican II (though it will hopefully correct some abuses that cropped up in the years following Vatican II). This website has more information for you if you are interested: <a href="http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/</a>
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's literally an exact translation from the Latin if you look at the Latin and English side by side. 

Also, to clarify what Agape said about lay people saying part of the Mass for children - it's generally called "Children's Liturgy of the Word".  Its purpose is to allow the kids to participate in and understand the readings.  Basically, the children leave with one or more parishoners right before the first reading and return at the preparation of the gifts.  There is one reading and the gospel read plus music if applicable.  There is them ample time to discuss the readings and for prayer.  It's pretty much like what would go on in a religion class or PSR, just with the Sunday readings. 

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:52d71f5d-65bc-4a79-87e7-01a4f83c5168">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : Yeah, it's literally an exact translation from the Latin if you look at the Latin and English side by side.  Also, to clarify what Agape said about lay people saying part of the Mass for children - it's generally called "Children's Liturgy of the Word".  Its purpose is to allow the kids to participate in and understand the readings.  Basically, the children leave with one or more parishoners right before the first reading and return at the preparation of the gifts.  There is one reading and the gospel read plus music if applicable.  There is them ample time to discuss the readings and for prayer.  It's pretty much like what would go on in a religion class or PSR, just with the Sunday readings. 
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]
Interesting....one of the other parishes in our area does this, with the children leaving, however they don't seem to change any of the wording (ie "friends). The church we were at last weekend, didn't have the children leave, but they did change some wording. I guess it's somewhat flexible?

And a further clarification re: Latin Mass - The updated translation to English for the New Mass is much better, but there are still huge differences in the content between the two.

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:015822ac-8c7b-4ad5-9bd2-343952119ffc">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : Interesting....one of the other parishes in our area does this, with the children leaving, however they don't seem to change any of the wording (ie "friends). The church we were at last weekend, didn't have the children leave, but they did change some wording. I guess it's somewhat flexible? And a further clarification re: Latin Mass - The updated translation to English for the New Mass is much better, but there are still huge differences in the content between the two.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Oh, yeah, sorry, what I meant to say is that the parts of the wording of the New Mass that are being changed will more or less exactly reflect the Latin :).

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:52d71f5d-65bc-4a79-87e7-01a4f83c5168">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : Yeah, it's literally an exact translation from the Latin if you look at the Latin and English side by side.  Also, to clarify what Agape said about lay people saying part of the Mass for children - it's generally called "Children's Liturgy of the Word".  Its purpose is to allow the kids to participate in and understand the readings.  Basically, the children leave with one or more parishoners right before the first reading and return at the preparation of the gifts.  There is one reading and the gospel read plus music if applicable.  There is them ample time to discuss the readings and for prayer.  It's pretty much like what would go on in a religion class or PSR, just with the Sunday readings. 
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

This isn't what I was talking about. CLOW is something different, usually at normal Sunday masses.

In masses for children, the kids wouldn't leave the mass, because they are using the children''s lectionary at the mass. This usually happens at a weekday Catholic school mass, the attendance must be mostly children.

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:09aa5e55-d4cb-4de3-97ed-9584f43dafba">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : This isn't what I was talking about. CLOW is something different, usually at normal Sunday masses. In masses for children, the kids wouldn't leave the mass, because they are using the children''s lectionary at the mass. This usually happens at a weekday Catholic school mass, the attendance must be mostly children.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

I was confused because you specified the "homily time", and I'd never seen a lay person give a homily at a children's mass.  But yes, we had different versions of the readings in elementary school (also only one reading plus the gospel).  We always had a priest saying the whole mass, though. 

lalaith50

ugh. this is why I can hardly go to any churches besides my own. Not because we are an Extraordinary Form parish--I usually attend the Novus Ordo, but because apparently my priest is one of the very few priests in the city who actually knows how to READ.

caitriona87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:c6584187-ef5f-45c2-a0e8-6169ac63d1b1">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : Oh, yeah, sorry, what I meant to say is that the parts of the wording of the New Mass that are being changed will more or less exactly reflect the Latin :).
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

I think there is some confusion over the ambiguity of "Latin"--the new translation will be a more accurate rendering of the Novus Ordo as written in Latin (as it is done in Latin first and then translated into other languages.) The "huge differences in content" Riss is talking about are still present between the revised NO translation and the TLM (Tridentine Latin Mass.)

agapecarrie

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[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : I was confused because you specified the "homily time", and I'd never seen a lay person give a homily at a children's mass.  But yes, we had different versions of the readings in elementary school (also only one reading plus the gospel).  We always had a priest saying the whole mass, though. 
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

I haven't either, but its allowed at a children' mass. I doubt it will stay though.

Children' masses are generally done during the weekday, so there is only one reading anyway. The Children's lectionary on Sundays includes both readings before the Gospel.

Calypso1977

why do they even have children's masses?  why cant they just attend Mass as is?  i dont believe my parents ever had special childrens masses growing up, and i know i never attended one nor do my sisters children.  we just learned the regular mass alongside our parents.  im wondering if these special childrens masses incur extra expense for the parish?

while i still prefer the Latin, my priest says a beautiful novus ordo and i dont mind sitting through it, although it is very hard for me to follow and i dont feel as connected because it isnt familiar to me.  at other parishes tho, it continues to be a struggle for me.

Riss91

Our parish does a wonderful New Mass, as well. But typically, if we're going to a New Mass, it's because we couldn't get to our parish that day, so we rarely see it. We also know other priests that do a great job of the New Mass (usually because they also conduct the Latin), but they're really far so we don't get to them that often. It's been a struggle for us as well, to find a parish close-by that does a nice job of the New Mass. We keep hunting though!

agapecarrie

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[QUOTE]why do they even have children's masses?  why cant they just attend Mass as is?  i dont believe my parents ever had special childrens masses growing up, and i know i never attended one nor do my sisters children.  we just learned the regular mass alongside our parents.  im wondering if these special childrens masses incur extra expense for the parish? while i still prefer the Latin, my priest says a beautiful novus ordo and i dont mind sitting through it, although it is very hard for me to follow and i dont feel as connected because it isnt familiar to me.  at other parishes tho, it continues to be a struggle for me.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

The children's mass does not incur extra cost.

For us, the class  does the reading, offertory, petitions. They also suggest the music. I really am not a fan of the children's lectionary (and definitely not a fan of the EPs), however, when a kindergartener or first grade does the first reading, some of them can be very difficult. Having easier language and shorter readings help that problem.

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:f3cc6583-7aef-4362-8d29-f07719ea7732">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Church Not-So-Funny? : The children's mass does not incur extra cost. For us, the class  does the reading, offertory, petitions. They also suggest the music. I really am not a fan of the children's lectionary (and definitely not a fan of the EPs), however, when a kindergartener or first grade does the first reading, some of them can be very difficult. Having easier language and shorter readings help that problem.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

This.  I went to a large elementary school, so we had grades K-4 on Wednesdays and 5-8 on Fridays.  Imagine a bunch of K-4 kids trying to read some of the more complex bible passages......

leahwaz73

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_church-not-funny?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:717d76f8-ad53-4c92-8bbb-caa519d0f5a6Post:faa875b8-1492-494f-ab94-0418ed03eba9">Re: Church Not-So-Funny?</a>:
[QUOTE]I've heard the term "friends" used more than once but I must say that I've never thought twice about it. One other thing I hear in the mass which seems different from one church to the next is the phrase <strong>"Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but speak the word, and I shall be healed" </strong>Some priests then say, "and that word is always given." This latter one is mostly at a church with Franciscan priests.  Perhaps it's just the way in that order?
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

My church says "but only say the word and I shall be healed."

In regards to friends vs. disciples, I'm pretty sure I've heard it both ways.