Mandatory NFP advice?

all7dwarves

So we have to take a NFP class to get married in our church.   We are starting tomorow doing an online seminar.  I'm trying to take the attitude that I might learn something, but to be honest I have no intention of using NFP as our primary method of birthcontrol.  (Not judging either way... Its just not for me.  I'll spare you the personal details.).  The part that makes me really uncomfortable is the level of effectively medical information they want you to share with a stranger over the internet.  (The  limited local classes didn't line up with our work travel schedules).  Will they not "pass" me if I don't turn in my chart?  What's the best way to get through this?

Thanks!!

doctabroccoli

Wait, so you actually have to chart?  We had to take a class, but it was a one night instructional/introduction-type thing, so we didn't actually chart for the class.

chelseamb11

I don't find it right that NFP is MANDATORY to get married in the church.  It is a great form of BC for those who want to use it, but, as you said, for others it's not right.  Heck for some it's not even possible, so I'm not sure why they would require you to do it.  I have no idea how one could cheat the system, but just do some reading up on NFP and what SHOULD happen to your body.  If you're planning on faking the results, that would be the best way to go.
But honestly, I'd talk to your priest if I were you.  In the Catholic faith, birth control is not accepted but I know many people do it anyway.  If you have legitimate reasons for not using NFP then they might be more understanding.  If it's a "ew gross i have to do WHAT with my mucous?!" reason, I'd actually recommend doing the class anyway. (no worries I don't need the details )  It's a great way of getting in touch with your body.  It's a very powerful feeling.  But in the end it's up to you.  You might have to suck it up if you want that priest to marry you... I know it sucks but it is reality.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:0118ccc9-98b6-463a-8f25-524c2e63f916">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]Wait, so you actually have to chart?  We had to take a class, but it was a one night instructional/introduction-type thing, so we didn't actually chart for the class.
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

Tht was the other thing I was going to say.  I was surprised about you needing to send over your charts.  Normally you chart during class but you don't actually send it.  I'd find out all the details first.

Riss91

Hey there! I understand feeling awkward about handing over personal information to a stranger. Unfortunately, those learning NFP methods really need this kind of feedback from those that have experience. Just remember that these instructors look at this stuff all the time, and try your best not to think about that aspect too much.

Just a side note - if you are using birth control pills, the information you track for NFP will basically be inaccurate for charting purposes. You should be upfront with your instructor, because they will figure it out by the data you provide. Birth control pills mess up the indicators that you utilize in NFP.

I don't know your personal medical situations, but there are many ladies on here that have been told by their doctors that they must be on the pill due to their medical condition. In many of these cases, NFP methods are better at identifying underlying issues and helping women to treat them. PCOS is one that comes to mind, but there are others as well. Just something you might want to consider since the pill only masks symptoms, it does not solve the problem. It's like taking advil for a broken leg. You may not feel the pain, but as soon as you stop taking the advil, the pain comes back and your leg is still broken.

I hope that everything works out for you. Please feel free to ask more questions - there are many knowledgable and helpful ladies on this board.

Riss91

NFP courses were not mandatory for me, but I understand why the Church would require them as part of their marriage prep.

- The Church promotes abstinence before marriage
- Sex is a big part of marriage.
- Those married in the Church vow to be open to children
- The Church does not promote the use of artificial birth control

So, it's a basic equation. Married couples will have sex, the Church is teaching them about NFP as it is the only option for birth control within the Church's guidelines. There are only very rare cases where couples may utilize artifical birth control. And even then, it is always good to know about NFP. I think this stuff should be taught to everyone simply because you learn so much about the health of your body and your reproductive system.

Calypso1977

even if you dont want to use it for BC, it will be very helpful for when you do want to get pregnant.  the method works very effectively both ways - to avoid and to achieve pregnancy.  its worth learning.

i dont feel that the info you put on charts is overly medical.  its pretty much temps and mucous, physical exercise, any any abnormal feelings (i.e., headaches, cramping, etc.).  IMO, its not overly confidential.

bibliophile2010

Docta -- there are two levels of mandatory NFP classes that are required in different places: the intro class that you took and a full course (3 months) of NFP that I took. My diocese recently upped the requirement (though we would have done the full course anyway), so I'm somewhat familiar with both. The full course of NFP requires charting -- not to be big meanies or glean lots about your personal information, but to help make sure you're doing it right and effectively. As others have said, they see charts all the time, and it's no big deal to them.

OP and Chelsea -- I agree with Riss, it makes perfect sense that NFP is required as part of marriage prep, for the reasons she outlined. Also, it's not that the church does not support artificial birth control -- it condems it. Don't be fooled into thinking that because people identify as Catholic and use ABC, or because some priests turn a blind eye to its use that it is a-ok.
'
OP -- I don't know your situation, but I would really, really encourage your initial response which is to go into it with an open mind. If you have underlying medical conditions, I would encourage you to consider seeing a doctor well-versed in NFP who might be able to help treat the underlying issue, instead of making it with the pill.

agapecarrie

I think every woman should chart early on for their own medical benefit. I found issues with my health (and cured them) that I never would have found if I wasn't charting.

Resa77

This is my first post on this board, but I've been lurking here for a bit.  So...hello everyone!

I understand why the church requires exposure to NFP.  Unfortunately, it's not an appealing method for the majority of people because it's so technical and is open to so much "user error," whereas the pill is perceived as simple.  So it's somewhat a wasted effort with many people, because I think most people already have decided whether they'll use ABC, and aren't open to NFP from the start.

It's too bad NFP isn't a bit easier, because I think way more people (Catholic or not) are attracted to the idea of a natural BC that doesn't have tons of side effects, etc. 

Also, I've had friends who were annoyed at the priest for requiring NFP courses because they didn't want to use NFP or ABC -- they wanted to just "leave it up to God" and not have any sort of control over their fertility.  That's not against Catholic teaching, so it was annoying to them.  I could understand why she was upset.

monkeysip

I don't think most people turn away from NFP because it's so difficult.  I think even if it were magically much easier, most women still wouldn't do it.

The NFP/contraception battle must be one over morality.  Because even if you convince women to use NFP, they may still use it with a contraceptive mentality.  Then you really haven't accomplished much.  It's about making catholic couples open to life and helping them acknowledge that babies are the natural end of both sex and marriage.  

Sorry, that may not be a popular opinion, but that's how I see it.

Calypso1977

i honestly dont find NFP that difficult.  there are so many misconceptions out there that its difficult/ineffective.  that's what the courses, im sure, strive to teach. 

Riss91

It may be a wasted effort, but we shouldn't ever stop trying to share the knowledge. I know there are people who have been skeptical of NFP(former pill users) on this board that are amazed at how easy and helpful NFP is. Many wish they had learned it rather than being put on the pill in the first place. Like agape said, she found and cured a health issue through NFP which wouldn't have happened if she went on the pill.

Many people disregard NFP because they have been given misinformation. Many times by their own doctors. It would be smart for the medical world to start learning about these methods and sharing them with their patients. In the meantime, those of us that use it should continue to inform others and correct the inaccurate criticisms.

The side-effects and harm that artificial birth control yields are hushed because people enjoy the convenience. It's really sad.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:7646ed8e-b26f-428d-b063-b620690d3b95">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]This is my first post on this board, but I've been lurking here for a bit.  So...hello everyone! I understand why the church requires exposure to NFP.  Unfortunately, it's not an appealing method for the majority of people because it's so technical and is open to so much "user error," whereas the pill is perceived as simple.  So it's somewhat a wasted effort with many people, because I think most people already have decided whether they'll use ABC, and aren't open to NFP from the start. It's too bad NFP isn't a bit easier, because I think way more people (Catholic or not) are attracted to the idea of a natural BC that doesn't have tons of side effects, etc.  Also, I've had friends who were annoyed at the priest for requiring NFP courses <strong>because they didn't want to use NFP or ABC -- they wanted to just "leave it up to God" and not have any sort of control over their fertility.</strong>  That's not against Catholic teaching, so it was annoying to them.  I could understand why she was upset.
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

This.  That's why I don't like that the church recommends it.  Not all people want control of their fertility in that way, so why require them to do it.
I also don't like the idea of ABC because of what it can do to ones body.  I was on it in my late teens for medical reasons and coming off it was HELL.  My body didn't know what was going on!
That being said, I fully intend to take an NFP class, just to simply take it.  To know about my body.  I don't think we'll use it, but you never know.

Riss91

I see how it could be frustrating to someone who is going to let things happen, but it doesn't hurt to learn about the practice. You can diagnose possible fertility issues through these methods. Also, the courses should explore Catholic teachings on love, sex and the body in addition to the charting. So it would be helpful in that aspect, too.

It's kinda like how we learn calculus in high school and we ask "when am I ever going to use this stuff?". Even if you don't use it, there are benefits to taking the class...

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:2df57e30-0c2c-42e1-adec-5f4264c09d15">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mandatory NFP advice? : This.  That's why I don't like that the church <strong>recommends</strong> it.  Not all people want control of their fertility in that way, so why require them to do it. I also don't like the idea of ABC because of what it can do to ones body.  I was on it in my late teens for medical reasons and coming off it was HELL.  My body didn't know what was going on! That being said, I fully intend to take an NFP class, just to simply take it.  To know about my body.  I don't think we'll use it, but you never know.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

I mean requires lol, sorry

catarntina

FWIW, taking a pill was more difficult for me than doing NFP...

I was on the Pill for heavy bleeding and severe menstrual cramps.  I would sometimes forget to take it (reduces the effectives), and then I had to remember to refill it at my pharmacy, and I had to remember to pick it up from the pharmacy, and I needed to remember to ask my doc for a new script every year.

With NFP, it's something you do all day long and it becomes 2nd nature.  Go to the bathroom, wipe, check mucus.  Nothing difficult about that whatosever.  I had more issues remembering to take a pill -- you never forget to wipe.

Oh, I had to chart, and give my charts to strangers for my classes.  But they weren't QUITE strangers.  I actually worked with the guy who taught the class.  So here he is (along with his wife) talking about my cervical mucus and the next day at work we had to pretend it never happened.  I got over it.

Calypso1977

yes, but NFP doesnt control your fertility, it makes you aware of your fertility.   the pill and otheer ABC controls.

chelseamb11

Isn't the point of controlling fertility simply to not get pregnant when you don't want to be?  NFP has the same result as ABC without pumping fake hormones into your body.

Riss91

Not quiiiite, because controlling your fertility is controlling the ability for your body to be fertile. When you take abc, you're body cannot (for the most part) sustain a pregnancy even when you are actively engaging in sex because you have no "fertile" time in each "cycle".

With NFP, you aren't changing your fertility, or your body's ability to conceive, you are just tracking when you might be fertile and deciding to abstain or not. Also, even when you are abstaining, you are doing so with the mindset that you are subject to God's will and if he wills it, you may become pregnant.

It may seem like semantics, but I think it's an important difference.

Resa77

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:a247408e-33a9-4d51-80d9-be11b9b1f57c">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]With NFP, it's something you do all day long and it becomes 2nd nature.  Go to the bathroom, wipe, check mucus.  Nothing difficult about that whatosever.  I had more issues remembering to take a pill -- you never forget to wipe.
Posted by catarntina[/QUOTE]

Lucky you!  My cycle is too all over the place, so I have no pattern with mucus.  I have "fertile" mucus most days, regardless of whether I'm ovulating.  My temps also have no pattern.  I've been told I need to check my cervix.  I tried and fainted --- maybe I'll build up tolerance though lol? 

On another note, I think it's frusterating that they require it because they spend so much time on "why" rather than "how."  If it was voluntary, pretty much only people who intended to use NFP would sign up, and so they wouldn't need to be convinced about sexual morality within marriage, or the benefits of NFP, etc.  They could just learn how to do it.  I've heard that complaint from a few friends -- they were like "omg I know Catholic theology.  Please teach my NFP!"

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:ae54e231-6665-4f4a-94bb-161fe8b53ba0">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mandatory NFP advice? : Lucky you!  My cycle is too all over the place, so I have no pattern with mucus.  I have "fertile" mucus most days, regardless of whether I'm ovulating.  My temps also have no pattern.  I've been told I need to check my cervix.  I tried and fainted --- maybe I'll build up tolerance though lol?  On another note, I think it's frusterating that they require it because they spend so much time on "why" rather than "how."  If it was voluntary, pretty much only people who intended to use NFP would sign up, and so they wouldn't need to be convinced about sexual morality within marriage, or the benefits of NFP, etc.  They could just learn how to do it.  I've heard that complaint from a few friends -- they were like "omg I know Catholic theology.  Please teach my NFP!"
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

It's the same thing with parents who are required to take baptism classes even when they're on their 3rd, 4th, 5th child.

How can the Church differentiate between those who are eager to do it, and those who aren't? I just don't think it's something that can be done easily.

Also, if it was voluntary, many people would not go because they've heard that it is an ineffective method, or that they need to be on the pill. I think it is good that certain parishes require it.

bel138

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:ae54e231-6665-4f4a-94bb-161fe8b53ba0">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mandatory NFP advice? : Lucky you!  My cycle is too all over the place, so I have no pattern with mucus.  I have "fertile" mucus most days, regardless of whether I'm ovulating.  My temps also have no pattern.  I've been told I need to check my cervix.  I tried and fainted --- maybe I'll build up tolerance though lol? 
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

Are you doing STM? If so, you should check out Creighton. They have special instructions for women with frequent mucus that makes it a "basic infertile pattern" of mucus, thus decreasing your abstinence time. Also, the temp thing sounds like me. You may be having constant fertile mucus and no clear temp pattern because you have an underlying hormonal issue. A Creighton doctor would be able to diagnose and treat it.

all7dwarves

Wow! This is clearly a touchy subject!

Thought I'd give an updated:) We had our NFP class tonight.  Turning the chart isn't mandatory. And it is the full 3 session thing that people were talking about.

That being said, I'm just curious.  People talk about NFP classes as a great way to learn about your body and I want to know what you feel like you learned?  maybe I just wasn't open enough to it because at least after the first class the only thing I learned was peak plus 3 as a formal way out counting it out.  The rest of the theology/biology/body awareness was information I was already familiar and comfortable with....

agapecarrie

In creighton method, NFP-docs use the chart to diagnose issues. Some of the symptoms that can happen can indicate some quite serious things, including cancer. People who struggle with concieving turn to this method any many of them become pregnant.

There are 4 pages of small paragraphs of different symptoms listed that can indicate different problems.   I had a few of them that my docs treated and cured

Jasmine&Rajah

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:a83a9bec-e78e-4969-8267-c5db6a6fe02f">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE] I agree with Riss, it makes perfect sense that NFP is required as part of marriage prep, for the reasons she outlined. Also, it's not that the church does not support artificial birth control -- it condems it. Don't be fooled into thinking that because people identify as Catholic and use ABC, or because some priests turn a blind eye to its use that it is a-ok.
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

AMEN!  :-)   I'm sure we can all use reminders like this from time to time! 

Jasmine&Rajah

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:ae54e231-6665-4f4a-94bb-161fe8b53ba0">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mandatory NFP advice? : Lucky you!  My cycle is too all over the place, so I have no pattern with mucus.  I have "fertile" mucus most days, regardless of whether I'm ovulating.  My temps also have no pattern. 
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

Resa, have you heard of the book "Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition"?  It might be helpful for you!  Here's a link:

<a href="http://ccli.org/productsservices/other-books/fertility-cycles-nutrition.php" rel='nofollow'>http://ccli.org/productsservices/other-books/fertility-cycles-nutrition.php</a>

Jasmine&Rajah

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:2df57e30-0c2c-42e1-adec-5f4264c09d15">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mandatory NFP advice? : This.  That's why I don't like that the church (requires) it.  Not all people want control of their fertility in that way, so why require them to do it . . .  I don't think we'll use it, but you never know.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Chelsea and Resa, there was a point in our marriage - after three really awful miscarriages - where our doctors strongly advised us not to get pregnant for a while, out of concern for my health.  DH and I abstained for a time, but after that, we were <em>certainly</em> glad to know NFP until we were ready to concieve again!  The situation could never have been predicted, and NFP was an immense help to us.

newlyseliski

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:2df57e30-0c2c-42e1-adec-5f4264c09d15">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mandatory NFP advice? : This.  That's why I don't like that the church recommends it.  Not all people want control of their fertility in that way, so why require them to do it. I also don't like the idea of ABC because of what it can do to ones body.  I was on it in my late teens for medical reasons and coming off it was HELL.  My body didn't know what was going on! That being said, I fully intend to take an NFP class, just to simply take it.  To know about my body.  I don't think we'll use it, but you never know.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Yup... this is a good reason to take NFP classes.  One of my old roommates and her now husband are in the same camp...both being from large families, they aren't interested in avoiding pregnancy at all and were both very open to life from the get-go!  However, almost 6 months later and they've had no luck conceiving... They took symptothermal and she's been charting and suspects that she isn't ovulating... so it's a good starting off point to work with a doctor to resolve any potential health issues.  I've got PCOS and probably plenty of other crazy things wrong with me that my husband and I want to resolve before we start TTC, so the 10 months so far of NFP classes have been very helpful to make sure I'm charting things correctly and such.

<div id="forumPostAuthor[1]" class="Discussion_UserName">@<a href="http://community.theknot.com/cs/ks/user/default.aspx?membershipid=241967262503669&plckUserId=241967262503669" target="_blank" class="username_knot">all7dwarves </a>- I can understand the discomfort with having to "turn in" your chart as proof of completing your classes, especially if you haven't been working directly with the parish on the charting.  Do you have any sort of virtual instructor for your online class that would be able to work with you directly on learning NFP and reviewing charts that would be able to vouch for you to your parish?  My husband and I had an intro class plus 8 follow-ups one-on-one with our instructor and just had our instructor contact our deacon directly to let him know that we'd fufilled our requirement. </div>

chrissyinatl

I am in the same boat.  I feel like we are wasting our instructor's time (they are volunteers) but luckily the other couples in our class are already married, so I feel like they are probably there on their own (aka not mandatory).

We have been to our first class, and have learned a lot.  Actually we think this is a great method if you are trying to conceive.

I was on Depo for 10 years, and recently came off it but there's no way my charts are going to be normal (I probably won't have my period for years) so when I hand in my charts, they aren't going to really tell much.  But at least I AM recording the information - so if we decide to use NFP, we'll know how...

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_mandatory-nfp-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b2345480-0bb0-4a48-a570-22f85bad3e1ePost:8c9f948e-c494-4cf1-841a-9c73b8349f09">Re: Mandatory NFP advice?</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow! This is clearly a touchy subject! Thought I'd give an updated:) We had our NFP class tonight.  Turning the chart isn't mandatory. And it is the full 3 session thing that people were talking about. That being said, I'm just curious.  People talk about NFP classes as a great way to learn about your body and I want to know what you feel like you learned?  maybe I just wasn't open enough to it because at least after the first class the only thing I learned was peak plus 3 as a formal way out counting it out.  The rest of the theology/biology/body awareness was information I was already familiar and comfortable with....
Posted by all7dwarves[/QUOTE]
lol - it is a touchy subject, mainly because the majority of our society (including our doctors) are very anti-NFP due to lack of information OR complete misinformation. So, many of us have had to defend ourselves and the method over and over again. We are constantly told that it is ineffective, or that "I have a medical condition so I need to be on the pill" when, in fact, their medical condition is "bad periods" or something that is actually CURED by NFP and the pill is actually preventing a cure. So, it is kinda a hot-button thing for us. Hopefully, the medical community will pick up on this more and more and patients will not continue to be fed pills for no good reason.

As far as what I learned....I wasn't aware of really anything to do with cervial fluid and its patterns in relation to fertility (nor cervical position and texture). I didn't realize there were temperature indicators that ovulation occurred. I learned alot about symptoms or signs that signal possible problems. I learned about the medical harms of other methods as well as the spiritual harms. And the biggest thing I've learned is how SIMPLE it is to use NFP and how great it is for your health and peace of mind. I was a big skeptic, to be honest and now I honestly couldn't be more impressed with it.