Teach Me?

SpokenVows

My FI and his family are Catholic, and I'm coming to find out more and more things about Catholicism as I read this board, and talk to FI's family. But I realise I don't really understand why some things are done the way they are, and I would genuinely like to understand. Perhaps you girls can help me out?

Some questions:
1. Why, exactly, is it a sin to be married to someone who is neither Catholic nor Protestant? I don't know if this is actually true, but it is was I was told.
2. Why do Catholics have to be married in a Catholic church? Whatever the reason, why can you be exempt from it?
3. Why do they require premarial counselling? Who does the counselling, and for how long?
4. If one parent is not Catholic, why must the children be raised Catholic? What happens if they aren't raised Catholic, like the Catholic parent said they would be?
5. What if both people start out Catholic in the beginning of the marriage, but one later converts...would the church still "acknowledge" their marriage?

doctabroccoli

Hi Spoken, welcome!  I'll answer a couple of your questions and leave the rest to those who are better versed in doctrine.

2.  Catholics don't HAVE to be married in a Catholic Church, but if they want their marriage to be recognized within the Catholic Church, then they need to be married in one.

3.  The Church requires premarital counciling to make sure that both parties are truly ready to enter the lifelong commitment that marriage is.  The counciling varies by location - some people go for a day, others for a weekend, and others for regular meetings for a set period of time.  The counciling (also known as Pre-Cana) is run by a mixture of priests, nuns, and ordinary people.

SoHappyToBeMrsC

In Response to Teach Me?:
I am going to try my best to answer, but there are others on the board who are FAR more expert than I am.Please, anyone correct me if something I've said is wrong.
 
1. Why, exactly, is it a sin to be married to someone who is neither Catholic nor Protestant? I don't know if this is actually true, but it is was I was told. It is NOT a sin to be married to someone who is not Catholic or Protestant. There is not a grain of truth to this.The only way I could see this coming up is if a Catholic marries someone who has been married before, and that person has not had their previous marriage annuled by the Catholic church. At that point the Catholic person would be seen as living in sin with a married person, at least until the married person gets his/her previous marriage annuled.While living in this state of sin, the Catholic person would be barred from the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

2. Why do Catholics have to be married in a Catholic church? Whatever the reason, why can you be exempt from it?Catholics have to be married in the Catholic church because marriage is a Sacrament, and must take place on consecrated ground. There is no exemption for this, unless it is an extreme circumstances. This would be very rare, and would not apply to the average person.

 3. Why do they require premarial counselling? Who does the counselling, and for how long? The Catholic church takes marriage VERY seriously. The church views marriage as a bond for life, and in order to decrease the amount of divorce and annulments, they require premarital counseling to ensure that the couple are mature enough to take this step, that they realize the committment they are making, and to uncover any issues that could be an impediment to a successful marriage, and resolve them prior to the wedding, or cancel the wedding entirely if the issue is severe enough.The person who offers the counseling varies by parish. Some places do Engaged Encounter, others do Foccus testing and meetings with married couples, or priests offer it, etc. It really depends on your church, ask them.

4. If one parent is not Catholic, why must the children be raised Catholic? What happens if they aren't raised Catholic, like the Catholic parent said they would be? When a Catholic marries a non Catholic, in order to get married in the church, the Catholic person promises to do all they can to ensure that children are raised Catholic. The Non Catholic person makes no promises, but acknowledges they are aware that the Catholic has made that promise. Nothing "happens" if the kids aren't raised Catholic, but that would really be between the Catholic person's conscience. They would definitely have to answer to God for their lapse as a parent.

5. What if both people start out Catholic in the beginning of the marriage, but one later converts...would the church still "acknowledge" their marriage? Yes, once married in the Catholic church, always married in the Catholic church. The church "recognizes" every marriage as existing, it's just that a non Catholic marriage would not be considered a Sacramental bond.

Hopefully I answered everything correctly and didn't screw that up, LOL.
 

linzluvsgzuss

1. Why, exactly, is it a sin to be married to someone who is neither Catholic nor Protestant? I don't know if this is actually true, but it is was I was told.
It's not a sin to be married to someone who isn't Christian (that includes Catholics). It's usually easier to be married to someone of the same or similar faith, but that has nothing to do with sin. Sins are thoughts, actions, or lack of action that separate us from God.

2. Why do Catholics have to be married in a Catholic church? Whatever the reason, why can you be exempt from it?
Marriage is a Sacrament and Sacraments are public, they are not personal. No one "owns" a Sacrament. And the public place where Sacraments are celebrated is in a church. That's one reason. Another is that since marriage is a Sacrament (an outward sign of the invisible God) we need to celebrate marriage inside God's house.

3. Why do they require premarial counselling? Who does the counselling, and for how long?
The Cathoic Church has to be the most genious of organizations for requiring pre-marital counseling...I wish more people knew and understood. Marriage is for a lifetime, can't be undone (annulments are another topic). Since marriage is forever, the Church gives us all of the best help humanity can offer for couples to have a happy marriage. And, as someone else mentioned, the Church gives us the opportunity to dig deeper and make sure we know who we are marrying and make sure we still actually want to marry that person. There was at least one couple on my Engaged Encounter Weekend that walked away knowing that there were issues and red flags telling them they shouldn't get married. The actual prep and counseling varies by Diocese and by parish.

4. If one parent is not Catholic, why must the children be raised Catholic? What happens if they aren't raised Catholic, like the Catholic parent said they would be?
If you believe that the world is round, you want to make sure your children know the world is round, right? You don't want them thinking it's flat or something. That's sort of analogous to why the Catholic parent promises to do their best to ensure that their children are raised Catholic - if you believe it, truly, why wouldn't you teach it to your kids?

5. What if both people start out Catholic in the beginning of the marriage, but one later converts...would the church still "acknowledge" their marriage?
Yes. Pretty sure. I'll let you know more when I get to marriage in my Canon Law class, haha.

Calypso1977

Some questions:
1. Why, exactly, is it a sin to be married to someone who is neither Catholic nor Protestant? I don't know if this is actually true, but it is was I was told.  It is not a sin.  In the old days, a "mixed marriage" was frowned upon and the ceremony was generally  not allowed to be performed in the church, but usually in the rectory or some other location other than the high altar.
2. Why do Catholics have to be married in a Catholic church? Whatever the reason, why can you be exempt from it?  A catholic is bound to be married in the church if they want their marriage recognized by the church.  an unrecognized marriage essentially means that you are living in sin.
3. Why do they require premarial counselling? Who does the counselling, and for how long?  The intent is to make sure the couple understands the sacrament they are receiving, and how to live a catholic marriage.  unfortunately, IMO, much of the pre-cana given today is more focused on secular aspects of marriage like balancing the checkbook, etc.  ours was given by our priest.  many are given pre-cana by lay persons either in sessions or in the form of an engaged encounter weekend.  the intent is to make sure all intentions are legit with the hope that hte marriage will last.
4. If one parent is not Catholic, why must the children be raised Catholic? What happens if they aren't raised Catholic, like the Catholic parent said they would be? a catholic is bound to ensure that their offspring is raised in the faith.  they have a responsibility for the souls of the children they bring into this world.  if the children are not brought up catholic, then that is something that the catholic in the marriage must bear on their soul, and IMO, will have to account for it with God when their time comes.
5. What if both people start out Catholic in the beginning of the marriage, but one later converts...would the church still "acknowledge" their marriage?  yes.  however, i was always taught that once a person was baptized catholic they were catholic for life, even if they chose later to convert.  however, i dont know if this is entirely true, its just what i was always told. 

SpokenVows

Thanks for all the replies! They're very helpful.

As linz said, a sin is a thought, action, or lack of action that separate you from God. So, wouldn't marrying a Pagan, for example, separate you from Him? A SO plays a large part in your life, and their religion is often brought into daily life situations, as well. But, if it's not considered a sin, I don't understand why FI's mother thinks it is. Hmm.

I guess I still don't really understand HAVING to get married in a Catholic church to have it recognised. But I also don't know what a Sacrament or a Eurcharist is. What is so different from a Catholic church and another church? Are they not both a house of God?

Now that I understand why they have counselling, I actually love the idea. I'm not sure how I feel it is something you must do, but I think it's very smart to have it.

And I understand the general idea of why they would want the children to be raised Catholic, but does it HAVE to be Catholic? Why not another denomination?

I find the later convertion an interesting thing. A couple people had suggested to me that I convert to Catholicism for the wedding, and then convert back just to have our marriage recognised by FI's church. Personally, I find it would be extremely offensive to both religions, in a way. It would be a slap in the face to both of them


Thanks again

SoHappyToBeMrsC

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:b9549303-d7d9-4c97-8cdf-40083c306eef">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks for all the replies! They're very helpful. As linz said, a sin is a thought, action, or lack of action that separate you from God. So, wouldn't marrying a Pagan, for example, separate you from Him? A SO plays a large part in your life, and their religion is often brought into daily life situations, as well. But, if it's not considered a sin, I don't understand why FI's mother thinks it is. Hmm. I guess I still don't really understand HAVING to get married in a Catholic church to have it recognised. But I also don't know what a Sacrament or a Eurcharist is. What is so different from a Catholic church and another church? Are they not both a house of God? Now that I understand why they have counselling, I actually love the idea. I'm not sure how I feel it is something you must do, but I think it's very smart to have it. And I understand the general idea of why they would want the children to be raised Catholic, but does it HAVE to be Catholic? Why not another denomination? I find the later convertion an interesting thing. A couple people had suggested to me that I convert to Catholicism for the wedding, and then convert back just to have our marriage recognised by FI's church. Personally, I find it would be extremely offensive to both religions, in a way. It would be a slap in the face to both of them Thanks again :)
Posted by SpokenVows[/QUOTE]

The Eucharist is another word for Communion. You will not be able to take Communion in the Catholic church since you are not Catholic. If you google, you can find out the exact definition of a Sacrament, I don't want to possibly define it incorrectly.

I don't know what to say to you if you don't understand why a Catholic promises to do everything they can to raise their children Catholic. Does it make sense to you that a <u>Catholic</u> person in a <u>Catholic</u> church would promise to raise their children Baptist or something? That's crazy. It should go against the Catholic person's beliefs. The way that it was explained to me in my confirmation classes is that if you don't believe the basic beliefs of the church, then you are not Catholic. Period. Just because you were baptized Catholic doesn't make you one in practice. If your FI does not believe in the Catholic church and does not practice it or attend Mass, and if he has no intention of making sure his children are raised Catholic, he has no business having a Catholic wedding and he's making a mockery of the church IMO.

It is NOT a sin to marry someone who is not Catholic. I'll bet money your FI's Mom most likely knows this, and she told this to you to manipulate you into converting so that her son can have a full wedding Mass. Ignore her. DO NOT convert to Catholicism if you don't want to.That is a terrible, dishonest, disrespectful unethical thing to do. By the way, there is no such thing as "converting back" so I don't know what you mean by that. Attending a different church is not "converting back". Once a Catholic always a Catholic.

mcdol3

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:b9549303-d7d9-4c97-8cdf-40083c306eef">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE] Now that I understand why they have counselling, I actually love the idea. I'm not sure how I feel it is something you must do, but I think it's very smart to have it. Posted by SpokenVows[/QUOTE]

My sister and her H had a civil marriage (they weren't religious and aren't Catholic) and they still did pre-marriage counselling. It wasn't required but they did it anyways and said it was a good decision.

We found it very helpful to us (Catholic) but I would completely recommend it for non-demonination marriages or other denominations. You learn a lot about each other and about marriage.

Calypso1977

the biggest difference between catholic communion (eucharist) and other churches is taht catholics believe in the True Presence.  we believe that is really the body and blood of Christ.  other relgiions, communion is merely symbolic.

And I understand the general idea of why they would want the children to be raised Catholic, but does it HAVE to be Catholic? Why not another denomination?

a catholic has a commitment and duty to their faith.  part of that duty is raising their children in the faith.  again, this is a big part of why mixed marriages were frowned upon in the first place.  because it would clearly have the potential to lead to issues with the children or issues with the catholic becoming weak in their faith withouth a spouse to help guide them and keep them on track.

spoken, your FMIL might be very old-school and still nto approve of mixed marriages.  she may also have fears that her son may be led away from his faith as a result of marrying someone who isnt catholic.  IMO, that's a legitimate concern. she may also be feeling guilt that she didnt do a good enough job raising her son in the faith, and may be questioning why he didnt find a catholic mate. 

i agree with you on conversion.  dont do it just for the wedding.  growing up, my sister and i were strongly encouraged to only date catholics.  of all my boyfriends, i only dated one protestant.  i knew it wouldnt last.  while mixed marriages can be successful, i personally never would have married someone who didnt share my faith.  interestingly, my sister married a non-practicing christian, and shortly after the birth of their first child, he decided to convert to catholicism.  my brother in law really blossomed in teh faith, and i think a big part of that was that my sister did not push him.  he also grew to see the importance of two parents united in the same faith.

SpokenVows

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:dd5c89df-9632-4543-9cbd-4fab56a344cc">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Teach Me? : I'm sorry, I didn't think I made any personal jabs, I didn't call her names. I understand not really knowing how the church works, but to even consider converting when you don't believe in the church, and saying that the church should be totally ok with children being raised in ANY religion really rubbed me the wrong way. OP, I'm sorry if I came across as offensive.
Posted by SoHappyToBeMrsC[/QUOTE]

If you actually read my post, you would know that I said <em>other people </em>had suggested I do, and that I said it would be wrong to do it. I don't know why you're so upset with me, when I never said I would even consider doing such a thing. It's completely disrespectful to ever do something like that.

And I'm not saying they should be raised in ANY religion. Obviously, I don't think the Catholic church should be happy with the child being raised Hindu or something. But saying that it HAS to be a specific denomination just seems a bit extreme, to me. Again, I'm very new to this and I have my own beliefs. It's the extremity in responses such as your's that turn me off to idea, in the first place. I'm trying to understand FI's faith for the sake of our marriage, his religion, my relationship with his family, our future family, and for my own personal knowledge.


Despite the slight frustration, I'm really learning a lot, and I'm really glad I decided to ask.

SpokenVows

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:84fe9a66-2d4a-4081-abee-1dd431e84e58">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Teach Me? : The Eucharist is another word for Communion. You will not be able to take Communion in the Catholic church since you are not Catholic. If you google, you can find out the exact definition of a Sacrament, I don't want to possibly define it incorrectly.<strong> I don't know what to say to you if you don't understand why a Catholic promises to do everything they can to raise their children Catholic. Does it make sense to you that a Catholic person in a Catholic church would promise to raise their children Baptist or something? </strong>That's crazy. It should go against the Catholic person's beliefs. The way that it was explained to me in my confirmation classes is that if you don't believe the basic beliefs of the church, then you are not Catholic. Period. Just because you were baptized Catholic doesn't make you one in practice. If your FI does not believe in the Catholic church and does not practice it or attend Mass, and if he has no intention of making sure his children are raised Catholic, he has no business having a Catholic wedding and he's making a mockery of the church IMO. It is NOT a sin to marry someone who is not Catholic. I'll bet money your FI's Mom most likely knows this, and she told this to you to manipulate you into converting so that her son can have a full wedding Mass. Ignore her. DO NOT convert to Catholicism if you don't want to.That is a terrible, dishonest, disrespectful unethical thing to do. <strong>By the way, there is no such thing as "converting back" so I don't know what you mean by that. Attending a different church is not "converting back". Once a Catholic always a Catholic.</strong>
Posted by SoHappyToBeMrsC[/QUOTE]


I suppose I just had more of the thought that even if they were raised another denomination, the child would still be raised Christian, and to believe in God, and that would sort of be the main point. For example, my dad is Episcopalian, but he doesn't care if my siblings are necessarily that denomination, so long as they believe in God.

By converting back, I meant returning to my original beliefs/religion. Just because you are baptised, I don't think that necessarily makes you that religion for life. If it's not something you truly believe in, it would be wrong (IMHO) to claim you are of that religion.

As for his mother, wouldn't saying something she knew wasn't true be a sin? Doesn't really seem right to me that she should do that, if she's that into her religion. Not that there's anything me, or anyone on here could possibly do about...just a thought on my end.

SpokenVows

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:dd5c89df-9632-4543-9cbd-4fab56a344cc">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Teach Me? : I'm sorry, I didn't think I made any personal jabs, I didn't call her names. I understand not really knowing how the church works, but to even consider converting when you don't believe in the church, and saying that the church should be totally ok with children being raised in ANY religion really rubbed me the wrong way. OP, I'm sorry if I came across as offensive.
Posted by SoHappyToBeMrsC[/QUOTE]

Well, I typed up a reponse, but it didn't go through, I guess. Let's try this again.

If you actually read my post, you would know that <em>other people</em> had suggested I convert, not me. I would never consider doing such a thing. It is totally disrespectful. Not only to Catholicism, but to my own, as well. I don't know why you're so upset with me about it, when I clearly said I was against the idea.

For raising children, I obviously don't think the Catholic church would be happy to have them raised ANY religion. It would make no sense for them to advocate them being raised Hindu. But I was trying to understand why it HAS to be Catholic. To me, it just seems a little extreme that it has to be exactly what they believe, and everything else is wrong. I would certainly hate to tell my mother she is wrong, just because she is not Catholic. She loves and believs in God just as much as anyone and really tries to live her life the way the Bible says. But she's wrong because she's not Catholic? It's the extremity in responses such as your's that turn me off to Catholicism, in the first place. Remember, I'm very new to this and I'm trying very hard to understand Catholicism for the sake of my marriage, FI's faith, his family, our future family, and for my own personal knowledge.


But I've learned a lot so far, and I'm so glad I decided to ask.

SoHappyToBeMrsC

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:bd9cf96c-00dd-4270-b4f2-06cf5b8b7b84">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Teach Me? : I suppose I just had more of the thought that even if they were raised another denomination, the child would still be raised Christian, and to believe in God, and that would sort of be the main point. For example, my dad is Episcopalian, but he doesn't care if my siblings are necessarily that denomination, so long as they believe in God. By converting back, I meant returning to my original beliefs/religion. Just because you are baptised, I don't think that necessarily makes you that religion for life. If it's not something you truly believe in, it would be wrong (IMHO) to claim you are of that religion. As for his mother, wouldn't saying something she knew wasn't true be a sin? Doesn't really seem right to me that she should do that, if she's that into her religion. Not that there's anything me, or anyone on here could possibly do about...just a thought on my end.
Posted by SpokenVows[/QUOTE]

The church doesn't want your child raised any in any old Christian denomination, they want them raised CATHOLIC. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for you to understand. I'm not trying to be snarky, but this is such a simple idea that I don't know why you're struggling with it.The Catholic church supports the Catholic church only. It would make no sense for them to be endorsing other religions as acceptable.

It is totally irrelevant that your Dad doesn't mind if you're not Episcopal as long as you believe in God. Your Dad is not the Catholic church, so it makes no difference how he feels. The church wants all its Catholic members to raise their children Catholic. It would be nuts if the church would say "Hey, it really doesn't matter if your kids aren't raised Catholic as long as they believe in God." If that was the case, you could raise your kids Jewish since Jews believe in God.

Once you are baptized OR confirmed Catholic, you are Catholic for life. It doesn't matter that you "don't feel" that it makes you Catholic for life. Your feelings or opinions don't trump the facts and beliefs of the Church.

You are right that it is wrong to say you believe in a religion when you don't, which is why converting to Catholicism is not the right thing for you to do, for yourself or the Church. Just don't do it.

I have no idea if your FMIL truly doesn't know that marrying someone who isn't Catholic is not a sin. It's purely speculation on my part. Any reasonably knowledgeable Catholic should know that it's not a sin, but maybe she's taking her personal opinion and pretending it's law, or maybe she truly doesn't know. Either way, she's wrong and that's it.

If you decide to have a Catholic wedding, it does not matter that you are not Catholic. Your marriage will still be recognized in the Catholic church. Your FI has to promise to raise his kids Catholic,and you have to confirm that you are aware he's made that promise. If he makes that promise when he has no intention of keeping it, or knows that you would stand in the way to make sure it was not done, then IMO, he is committing a grave sin and mocking the church.

I am not trying to be snarky, but it seems that you are placing your feelings and opinions above the truth and facts of the church.

How does your FI feel about all this? Does he practice and go to Mass and Reconciliation? Does HE want a Catholic wedding, and does HE want to raise his kids Catholic? I'm sure his mother does, but what she wants is totally irrelevant. What does HE want?

mswood1977

I would like to point out that you don't have to get married in the Catholic Church.  Since this will be a "mixed" marriage, your FI can speak to his priest about requesting a dispensation to marry in your church instead of in a Catholic church.  If such permission is granted (and it usually is in the case of "mixed" marriages), you would still need to complete Catholic pre-cana and anything else required for marriage in the Catholic Church,  but would be able to be married in your own church instead.

Calypso1977

its my understanding that the dispensation is only given when there is a dire circumstance that necessitates it.

mswood1977

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:7523d434-7033-4bd8-82c2-5583c8e5ab9c">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]its my understanding that the dispensation is only given when there is a dire circumstance that necessitates it.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

I  have known several couples that have received dispensation so they could marry in the bride's non-Catholic church and for no other reason other than one of them isn't Catholic.  This may be more common in some Dioceses than others.

MrsMack10612

My FI is Catholic and I am not.  We are going through pre-marital counseling with the priest.  We have been meeting with him every 2 months or so since last fall.

I have always had certain pre-conceptions about the Catholic church.  Through discussions with the priest these notions have changed.

One of the biggest helpers in this is a book called the Catechism of the Catholic Church.  It makes, for both Catholics & non-Catholics, very clear the whys and wherefores of the Church much clearer.  Rather than just saying - "do this because we said so" (which i understand is part of any faith/belief system to a degree), it gives the reasonings behind it; how/why the Church made the decisions it has; the logic if you will of their interpretation of the scripture.

I can't say how much it has helped me understand better - particularly things like why the ceremony has to be IN the church; and why the agreement to raise the children Catholic.

I got it on Amazon for about $10.  If you really want to have a little more guidance it is well worth the investment.

doctabroccoli

SoHappy -
You're coming on a little strong.  She's trying to learn, remember?  Watch the personal jabs, please.  Thanks

SoHappyToBeMrsC

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:c8434ca0-b97b-45a9-bd59-27bade6bdfa6">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]SoHappy - You're coming on a little strong.  She's trying to learn, remember?  Watch the personal jabs, please.  Thanks
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I didn't think I made any personal jabs, I didn't call her names. I understand not really knowing how the church works, but to even consider converting when you don't believe in the church, and saying that the church should be totally ok with children being raised in ANY religion really rubbed me the wrong way.

OP, I'm sorry if I came across as offensive.

SoHappyToBeMrsC

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:e4fa1bcc-5bb5-4233-9c06-1cacac5bb16d">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]Mica and Biblio - Okay, that makes a lot of sense, now! As an outsider looking in, <strong>I'll honestly say that it looks very, hmm, controlling? extreme? to have some of the requirements that the Catholic church does to the naked eye</strong>. But we also don't know the reasoning behind it. Knowing it now, though, it is definitely something that I could more easily get behind. While I don't necessarily agree with it, I see now where they're coming from. I cannot believe how much I'm learning from this, it's really great. There is a lot of misunderstanding about the Catholic faith in my family, so it's a really good feeling to have things really explained from the perspectives of those in the faith itself. Thanks again, ladies :)
Posted by SpokenVows[/QUOTE]

I understand your feelings. For the record, my FI is not Catholic either, and he feels like that about some things too. Heck, I feel that way about some things! I don't think that there is a religion out there that everyone can agree 100% on every single tiny thing they teach or believe. But overall, you have to agree with the tenets of the church.

If you have questions on particular doctrines, or if your FI does, maybe you could schedule a time to sit down with a priest and talk about them? Or do what PP mentioned, and get a Catechism and look things up.

doctabroccoli

Just some of the wording in general is a little strong given she doesn't know anything and is trying to learn.  Specifically,

"I don't know what to say to you if you don't understand why a Catholic promises to do everything they can to raise their children Catholic."

and

"I am not trying to be snarky, but it seems that you are placing your feelings and opinions above the truth and facts of the church. "

Your information is good.  Just watch how you word things, that's all

doctabroccoli

Spoken -
If your FI isn't sure about things right now, then I agree, maybe you should look into your other options.  You can always have a convalidation later (a short ceremony to have the Catholic Church recognize your marriage that was done outside of the Church) if you make your way to Catholicism someday.  Questioning one's faith is not a bad thing - in the end, you often end up with a stronger faith than what you started with.  I know I did.  (As I said, I spent four years away from the Church)  I think you and your FI should have a serious talk about the ceremony that is best for you as a couple.

SpokenVows

Thanks, kj. I'll have to look into that book.

SpokenVows

SoHappy -

Well, I typed up a reponse, but it didn't go through, I guess. Let's try this again.

If you actually read my post, you would know that other people had suggested I convert, not me. I would never consider doing such a thing. It is totally disrespectful. Not only to Catholicism, but to my own, as well. I don't know why you're so upset with me about it, when I clearly said I was against the idea.

For raising children, I obviously don't think the Catholic church would be happy to have them raised ANY religion. It would make no sense for them to advocate them being raised Hindu. But I was trying to understand why it HAS to be Catholic. To me, it just seems a little extreme that it has to be exactly what they believe, and everything else is wrong. I would certainly hate to tell my mother she is wrong, just because she is not Catholic. She loves and believs in God just as much as anyone and really tries to live her life the way the Bible says. But she's wrong because she's not Catholic? It's the extremity in responses such as your's that turn me off to Catholicism, in the first place. Remember, I'm very new to this and I'm trying very hard to understand Catholicism for the sake of my marriage, FI's faith, his family, our future family, and for my own personal knowledge.


But I've learned a lot so far, and I'm so glad I decided to ask.

SoHappyToBeMrsC

You don't have to tell your Mom that she's wrong for not being Catholic. The church does not tell us to tell anyone that. Of course it would be off putting to say to someone "you're not Catholic so you're going to hell!". It would not do much towards bringing people towards the church, that's for sure. I was not advocating for you to say that to anyone, I'm not sure where you read that in my post.

In terms of why the Catholic church says your kids have to be raised Catholic, since they believe Catholicism is the true religion, of course they would want you to raise your children in the true religion versus something that is not. That doesn't mean they believe that everyone who isn't Catholic is going to hell, but obviously they simply cannot advocate and give public approval of children being raised in any other way. If your FI did not promise to raise his kids Catholic and they allowed the wedding to proceed, they would be giving tacit approval to that plan, which would be hypocritical to the church's beliefs. Does that make sense?

Where does your FI stand on all of this?

SoHappyToBeMrsC

duplicate

mica178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_teach?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:b9933215-6ce7-4498-b543-054afdd18515Post:936577fb-3f21-458f-9e6b-92c1688e6f88">Re: Teach Me?</a>:
[QUOTE]SoHappy - Well, I typed up a reponse, but it didn't go through, I guess. Let's try this again. If you actually read my post, you would know that other people had suggested I convert, not me. I would never consider doing such a thing. It is totally disrespectful. Not only to Catholicism, but to my own, as well. I don't know why you're so upset with me about it, when I clearly said I was against the idea. For raising children, I obviously don't think the Catholic church would be happy to have them raised ANY religion. It would make no sense for them to advocate them being raised Hindu. But I was trying to understand why it HAS to be Catholic. To me, it just seems a little extreme that it has to be exactly what they believe, and everything else is wrong. I would certainly hate to tell my mother she is wrong, just because she is not Catholic. She loves and believs in God just as much as anyone and really tries to live her life the way the Bible says. But she's wrong because she's not Catholic? It's the extremity in responses such as your's that turn me off to Catholicism, in the first place. Remember, I'm very new to this and I'm trying very hard to understand Catholicism for the sake of my marriage, FI's faith, his family, our future family, and for my own personal knowledge. But I've learned a lot so far, and I'm so glad I decided to ask.
Posted by SpokenVows[/QUOTE]

I'm glad that you're asking!

There are things that are different between the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations.  As Catholics, we believe that our way of seeing things is correct, and therefore, we want those in our group to do things "our way."  So, if you and your husband are to marry in the Catholic church, that's a sacrament, and part of the vows is for your husband to say that he will try to raise future children as Catholics. 

Why?  Obviously we all believe in the same God, but we believe in the specifics of Catholicism.  Since we believe that our communion is the body of Christ, why would we encourage people who are part of the church to raise their children in a church where they cannot receive the body of Christ?  We Catholics believe that our way is the correct way, to advise people that they can choose another faith or way is to be untrue to our beliefs.  That does not mean that we should not be tolerant of other beliefs, but it does mean that we should continue to encourage those within our faith to follow the teachings of our specific faith.

bibliophile2010

Honestly, your FI's mother may just be mistaken. Lots of people think that Catholics may only marry Catholics or may only marry Christians. Sadly, many people are poorly catechised (taught the faith) through no fault of their own and don't know all the ins and outs of the faith. We're all learning together, which is what makes this board so great.

The Catholic Church teaches and really truly believs that she has the fullness of Truth. In other words, she has it right where others only have it partially right. As such, if someone really, truly believes that the Church has a grasp on the Truth, a Catholic wants to pass down the knowledge of the Truth to their children. This goes far beyond believing in God or being a good person. That's why another denomination isn't good enough. It would be like sending your kids to an okay school because you figure all they really need to do is learn to read, when you know how important math, science, social studies, etc. are and there is another school that will give them the best education possible. To a faithful Catholic, another decision just doesn't make sense.

As for once Catholic, always Catholic, the Church teaches that baptism, confirmation and ordination leave indelible marks on your soul. In other words, no matter how much you sin, how much you stop practicing, how much you hate the faith, turn your back on it, etc., the fact that you were baptised stays with you forever and ever and can't be undone.

SpokenVows

Sorry, my post was a bit confusing. I didn't literally mean I would tell my mum she was wrong. I just meant to imply that was the general idea that I got from your post. That anything other than Catholicism was essentially wrong. Again in your post, you say that the Catholic church believes Catholicism is the true religion, which means anything other than that faith is wrong.

It makes sense that they would want the children to be raised Catholic. I would want them to know my religion, as well. But, more importantly, I would want them to believe in whatever they truly believe themselves, not something I'm forcing on them. My mother shoved her religion down my throat growing up, and taught me of nothing else. It made me resent the entire faith. My sisters grew up believing the religion, but that was only after she learned to back down a bit.

FI is a bit confused on the whole matter, I think. There are things he agrees with, and others he doesn't. I'm not so sure he even truly believes in Catholicism, so it's making it a bit difficult. He believes in God, but he's not in full agreement with the church. He shuts down everytime religion is brought up because he gets confused. He wants to believe it because he grew up with it and it's what his family is, but he tells me all the time he doesn't know. He used to attend Mass regularly, but gradually stopped attending.

SpokenVows

Mica and Biblio - Okay, that makes a lot of sense, now! As an outsider looking in, I'll honestly say that it looks very, hmm, controlling? extreme? to have some of the requirements that the Catholic church does to the naked eye. But we also don't know the reasoning behind it. Knowing it now, though, it is definitely something that I could more easily get behind. While I don't necessarily agree with it, I see now where they're coming from.

I cannot believe how much I'm learning from this, it's really great. There is a lot of misunderstanding about the Catholic faith in my family, so it's a really good feeling to have things really explained from the perspectives of those in the faith itself. Thanks again, ladies

SoHappyToBeMrsC

Yes, the Catholic church believes we are the right religion and others are not. If your FI does not believe in the church, does not go to Mass, and doesn't intend to raise his children to believe that the Catholic church is the one true religion (and if you don't agree with it), then it sounds like a Catholic wedding may not be right for the two of you as a couple, or for your future family. I know that sounds harsh, but you have to make the right choice for yourselves.

If you do decide to skip the Catholic wedding, I would recommend presenting a united front to your MIL and family. They might have a very negative reaction.