Catholic Weddings

Anyone not doing NFP?

I am wondering if there are any other Catholic women out there who are NOT planning on doing NFP once they get married, and will be (or already are) on the pill instead. I have seriously looked into both as an option and have decided that the pill will be able to provide me with the best security and the least amount of stress, especially since I will be working full time and going to grad school part time, and my fiance will also be working full time. Does anyone else have different reasons for doing so? 

Sometimes I feel like I am alone in my decision to use the pill instead. I also have mixed sources as to whether or not it is actually "forbidden" by the Church. My mother has always said that it is, but my MIL (who is licensed to teach the Catholic faith) says that it is not. What are your understandings about this matter? I am very interested to hear!!

(*Disclaimer*: I am posting this message to get feedback from women who are choosing to/thinking about using the pill instead of NFP, and to have a good discussion about it. I am very sorry, but my mind will NOT be changed about using the pill, so please do not post here to try and convince me otherwise, tell me that I am a horrible person for not using NFP, etc. Sorry to sound like a meanie, but I just have to be sure :)



Adrienne & Jonathan
image

Wedding Countdown Ticker
«13

Re: Anyone not doing NFP?

  • ootmother2ootmother2 member
    Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    My guess is that your FMIL was married in the early 70s.  At that time, many priests advised young couples that the pill was accepted by the Catholic Church. 

    I was married in 1978 and we had DD 6 months later. NO, not pregnant at my wedding, my daughter was a 27 week preemie and survived!  A miracle in those days

    There was a great debate at that time and the pope finally came out with an absolute that the BCP was not natural family planning, rather artificial contraception.

    I take no stand on this as I am divorced MOB and I doubt the subect will come up again ;)
  • catarntinacatarntina member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    The Pope says that any form of artifical BCP is not appropriate.  The reasons are it separates sex from its true meaning -- procreation. It kind of degrades the act because now you're doing it just for pleasure without meaning behind it.  They also say it promotes promiscuity.

    I'm pretty sure it's "forbidden."  I haven't heard anything to contradict that.  Condoms are approved to prevent the spread of STI's and AIDS *only*.  But the Pill is definitely against the rules.

    Check out "Good News about Sex and Marriage" by Christopher West.  He explains the church's view on artificial BC very well.

    I think you should do what you need to do though.  If you absolutely cannot take the risk now, then do what you need to do.  Maybe when your life slows down you can come back to NFP.  Once you have time to learn it, it's really a snap to manage every day and can definitely be done whether you're working FT or not.
    ---------
    Anniversary

    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers
  • clearheavensclearheavens member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments Name Dropper 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_anyone-not-doing-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d5a03c93-a38e-4dd0-9daa-c0180815adb6Post:79aa4858-ff0b-48cd-96a2-f678f7b23a6a">Anyone not doing NFP?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I am wondering if there are any other Catholic women out there who are NOT planning on doing NFP once they get married, and will be (or already are) on the pill instead. I have seriously looked into both as an option and have decided that the pill will be able to provide me with the best security and the least amount of stress, especially since I will be working full time and going to grad school part time, and my fiance will also be working full time. Does anyone else have different reasons for doing so?  Sometimes I feel like I am alone in my decision to use the pill instead<strong>. I also have mixed sources as to whether or not it is actually "forbidden" by the Church. </strong>My mother has always said that it is, but my MIL (who is licensed to teach the Catholic faith) says that it is not. What are your understandings about this matter? I am very interested to hear!! (*Disclaimer*: I am posting this message to get feedback from women who are choosing to/thinking about using the pill instead of NFP, and to have a good discussion about it. I am very sorry, but my mind will NOT be changed about using the pill, so please do not post here to try and convince me otherwise, tell me that I am a horrible person for not using NFP, etc. Sorry to sound like a meanie, but I just have to be sure :)) 
    Posted by afmilner[/QUOTE]

    <div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">I will never judge a person for the decisions they make, especially someone who is struggling with Catholic teaching.  Actually, I'm really happy you posted this issue.  And I will do my best to answer your bolded question.</div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">
    </div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">Until 1930, every Christian (Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Catholics) was unanimous in the condemption of contraception.  But in 1930 the Anglicans broke away from that teaching.  And until the pill became marketed to the public in the 1960s, there wasn't a need for the Church to clarify this teaching.  That's why there came <em>Humanae Vitae </em>by Pope Paul 6.  <span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, geneva, sans-serif;font-size:12px;color:#000000;" class="Apple-style-span">The teaching is infallible.</span></div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, geneva, sans-serif;font-size:12px;color:#000000;" class="Apple-style-span">
    </span></div><div style="background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">I also want to share facts about the effectiveness of NFP.  I am not trying to convert you into NFP but I think mentioning it will help those who don't know flip out thinking they're doomed to choose between abstaining for 21 days of the month or to have 12 children.</div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">
    </div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">Ssveral secular and comparative studies on NFP show that it is 98-99% effective.  (Don't confuse NFP with your grandma's rhythm method, which is obsolete.)  Usually when I hear a person is scared of getting pregnant while using NFP, I believe what they're really scared of is having to abstain.  And I can understand that, who wants to say "no" when you're in the mood to rip up the sheets.   But if you are using NFP and decide to make love, you know clearly the chances of conceiving.</div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">
    </div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">The Couples to Couples League teaches that most women who are conservatively using NFP or are just starting out NFP abstain for 7-12 days of the month.  But after so many charts you can cut those days less.  After you get the hang of it, you may not even have to chart the entire month since the last phase tends to be very redundant.  Understanding your body is a learning curve.  With NFP, you will know which of the 3 phases you're in, and that gives you more control and information over your body  than if you were on the pill.</div></div>
    Follow Me on Pinterest

    BabyFruit Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    I have to take the pill for medical reasons related to an imbalance hormones. In the end, you have to do what you feel is right for you - perhaps speak to someone you trust in your congregation to determine your specific parish's views on the issue?
  • lisa89760lisa89760 member
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I'm taking the pill and I plan on taking it after we get married until we decide to have kids.  I'm fully aware it's not what the catholic church teaches.  My mom was on the pill in the 70's and is totally ok with me being on it now. 

    I really believe that you should do what is best for you.  Like OP, I'm working full time and getting my MBA and my FI is working full time, coaching 2 varsity HS teams and is in grad school, it is best for us if I stay on the pill so that we don't have any kids early.  After everything kinda slows down, we might look into NFP, but I'm pretty sure we will be TTC at that point.
    August 2011 sig challenge: Honeymoon!! (We bought a boat!!)
    Photobucket
  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    Sometimes I feel like I am alone in my decision to use the pill instead. I also have mixed sources as to whether or not it is actually "forbidden" by the Church. My mother has always said that it is, but my MIL (who is licensed to teach the Catholic faith) says that it is not. What are your understandings about this matter? I am very interested to hear!!

    it is forbidden except in cases where it is medically necessary.  there is wide debate, tho, on what constitutes medically  necessary since many feel that alternative treatments such as diet and exercise can often be just as effective as popping a pill.

    im curious about this statement:
    I have seriously looked into both as an option and have decided that the pill will be able to provide me with the best security and the least amount of stress

    based on your research, why do you feel its the best security?  effective rates with NFP are at least as effective if not more so than the pill.  i have at least 3 friends who got pregnant while on the pill.

    i can understand the stress element, at least initially.  the first probably 10 times we had sex while on NFP i was thinking, boy i hope i did my charts right!    but i also know i felt that same way years ago when i first took the pill - "boy, i hope this thing really works!".    i think with any new method there is some stress/distrust even before you get comfortable with the method, particularly if you are TTA.
  • lalaith50lalaith50 member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    your FMIL is "licensed to teach the Catholic faith?" not sure how that happens... I didn't know that there was licensing procedure! lol

    And her "licensing" is all the more laughable if she is teaching things blatantly contrary to Catholic teaching.

    She (and you!) should actually read Humanae Vitae
    just to clarify that artificial birth control is NOT permitted by the Church, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

    (I realize that you've already said you're going to use BC, I was just trying to clarify this since you seem to think there is some "confusion" in the Church's teaching. Yes, there may be confusion, but that only comes from people like your FMIL trying to teach things that aren't true because of their own personal agendas; like maybe trying to justify what they have been doing for years?)
    Anniversary
  • edited December 2011
    I posted this lately on a similar thread.  I understand the teaching on NFP, and have still decided its not for me.  I'm currently on BCP, I feel better on them than I do without them, and I use a lot of other medical products to make my life a bit easier and convenient.

    So no, I don't think you're alone.  I can't find them right now, but if you look at national statistics, many Catholics use artificial birth control (not saying its right or wrong, just saying it is).
  • mica178mica178 member
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    OP, I'll admit that I was sceptical about NFP too, especially since when I was in school, I was told that it was synonymous with the rhythm method.  However, after spending time on this board and reading Taking Charge of Your Fertility on my own, I felt confident enough to start NFP.  So far I feel like I really know when to abstain, and there hasn't been an oops/nail-biting incident yet.  I really believe this method works.  (Oh, and to reaffirm what PPs said, the use of artificial birth control goes against Church recommendations.  The use of hormones for other medical purposes is acceptable.)
  • caitriona87caitriona87 member
    Fifth Anniversary 100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_anyone-not-doing-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d5a03c93-a38e-4dd0-9daa-c0180815adb6Post:b87b58c9-e091-45eb-8c40-cd765aa489b4">Re: Anyone not doing NFP?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I have to take the pill for medical reasons related to an imbalance hormones. In the end, you have to do what you feel is right for you - perhaps speak to someone you trust in your congregation to determine your specific parish's views on the issue?
    Posted by cgielow[/QUOTE]

    Part of being a Catholic church is not having "parish specific" views. A church in communion with Rome cannot take positions contrary to what the Church teaches. That's not to say it never happens, but more that it is an error on the part of the priest and in no way releases a parishioner from the obligation to form one's conscience in accord with the teaching of the Church.

    Also, clearheavens had a great response but I wanted to just add that the Church did indeed respond to the Anglican's choice to toss out over 1900 years of Christian Tradtion with an encyclical called Casti Connubii.

    <a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html</a>

    Anyway, OP, I won't try to "convince" you otherwise other than to answer one of your questions; contraception is indeed "forbidden" by the Church (not in the sense of making rules for their own sake, but out of love for Her children because it is contrary to our nature,) supported by Scripture, Tradition, ordinary magisterial teaching, the Catechism, etc. As PP's mentioned some priests have misled their flock about this, but that does not change what the Church teaches.

    If nothing else, one should at least attempt to study what the Church teaches and why with a prayerful, open heart and a true desire to do the holy will of God.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_anyone-not-doing-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d5a03c93-a38e-4dd0-9daa-c0180815adb6Post:9dac9e09-a78c-4d68-a23c-fd53bfec12d0">Re: Anyone not doing NFP?</a>:
    [QUOTE]If nothing else, one should at least attempt to study what the Church teaches and why with a prayerful, open heart and a true desire to do the holy will of God.
    Posted by caitriona87[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this. The decision to use NFP or to ignore church teaching on the subject, which others have articulated much better than I, should be made with your heart and a fully formed conscience (not one that forms to what will be the easiest or most convenient). I will be the first to admit that I used to feel the same way as so many others -- skeptical, at best, of NFP and of church teaching on the subject. I opened my heart and have since done a total 180.

    That said, what you do or don't do is between you and God, and I'm not going to judge you for it.
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    I am on the pill now and WILL NEVER consider using NFP.  It might work for some women, but definitely not for me.  I like the security and effectiveness of the pill. 
  • edited December 2011
    First off, I want to thank everyone for their input--it is really interesting to hear different opinions on the issue! I know I have a lot of things to reply to, and I'm not sure how to quote multiple posts in my posts, so I'll just address them one at a time here.

    I know that a lot of the agruments about whether of not BC is against the church rests on the interpretation of the teaching that "couples must be open to fact that each sexual act could result in conception." One interpretation is more strict, saring that it means absolutely no methods should be in the way. Another, more broad, says that couples should be open to the fact that their own method of birth control, natural or not, will always have a small margin of error. If you are going with the strict interpretation, my question is this: if a couple is using NFP specifically not to conceive children, and are having sex with the hope and desire that a child will not result from it, then aren't they still, in their minds and hearts, not open to the possibility of children at that moment? With that said, I suppose I do not see how NFP and BC are fundamentally different.

    Despite this, I still personally see BC as being more secure. I have simply heard way to many instances of NFP not working properly to trust it (for example, FMIL conceived all three of her children while attemping not to with NFP--maybe this means she has an agenda, but it is not for lack of experience). I know that I cannot apply these particular circumstances to NFP as a whole, but that is the way I feel about it. Accidently having kids too soon could put a huge burden of stress on me and my fiance, and I do not want that to affect our marriage. Don't get me wrong, I think that children are wonderful and a miracle, but I wouldn't want to be raising a child knowing that she/he was a mistake or came into the world in a very stressful time. Also, I am an older sister to three significantly younger brothers, and ever since I was 12 I have been like a third parent/second mother to them. In many ways I feel as though I have already had kids, and now that I am moving into a different stage of my life, I would like to have some years in which kids are not a part of it.

    Also one post mentioned that BC "degrades the act because now you're doing it just for pleasure without meaning behind it." I honestly think that is a VERY unfair thing to say. My fiance and I have been wating almost 5 years to get married, and to, yes, have sex. I know that sex, even if it is protected, is going to be such a magical and MEANINGFUL experience for us. Pleasure is a natural by-product of sex and of course we are going to enjoy it to the fullest! But that does not mean it will not be as intimate or emotional for us.

    Again, thank you to everyone who posted and shared their opinions, and for not being too judgemental. I am still a very deeply spiritual person, even if I don't agree with everything. I think it is important to have women choose what will work best for them, as long as they have the right intentions behind it :)

    Adrienne & Jonathan
    image

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • mica178mica178 member
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    AF-

    Here's how I look at birth control from a Catholic perspective:
    As Catholics, part of our marriage vows is to welcome children into our lives as a result of sex.  While using NFP, the couple abstains from sexual intercourse to prevent a pregnancy.  Both individuals are sacrificing a few days of sexual pleasure to avoid creating a child that they are not ready to have.  When using other methods of birth control (condoms, the Pill, etc.), the couple has sex during the woman's fertile period knowing that she likely will not get pregnant because of this artificial barrier.  They are enjoying their sex but not willing to deal with the consequences.

    Do you see the difference?  It's subtle.  Some may disagree, and that's between them and God.  But I think that it's important to think about why the church has these rules and why we make the decisions we make.

    And I'll re-iterate right now that there are people who have successfully been pregnancy free for years by using NFP.  When people get pregnant on NFP, it's usually because they're choosing to take the risk by having sex when their bodies are fertile, but it's not the fault of the method.  An analogy would be couples who decide to have sex when they've run out of condoms or out of their prescription to the pill.  It's not the fault of the method, it's the fault of the user.
  • lalaith50lalaith50 member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    since I assume that it wasn't recently that your FMIL got pregnant while using "nfp," are you sure that she isn't referring to the "rhythm method?" (pretty much obsolete now, but there's a good chance that's what she used 30 years ago-- perhaps you already know this, but the understanding of the signs and changes in a woman's body that are used now has greatly improved!)
    Anniversary
  • catarntinacatarntina member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_anyone-not-doing-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d5a03c93-a38e-4dd0-9daa-c0180815adb6Post:54bcfcb3-96b2-48cb-97c6-9705f288b4a1">Re: Anyone not doing NFP?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Also one post mentioned that BC "degrades the act because now you're doing it just for pleasure without meaning behind it." I honestly think that is a VERY unfair thing to say. My fiance and I have been wating almost 5 years to get married, and to, yes, have sex. I know that sex, even if it is protected, is going to be such a magical and MEANINGFUL experience for us. Pleasure is a natural by-product of sex and of course we are going to enjoy it to the fullest! But that does not mean it will not be as intimate or emotional for us.
    Posted by afmilner[/QUOTE]

    It may be unfair to say.  But it's what the Church believes.  By having contraceptive sex, you're tearing sex away from its #1 purpose: making babies.  It's the same reason why the church does not believe in invitro fertilization.  That's babies without sex.  Birth control is sex without babies. A <em>by-product</em> is the pleasure and intimacy. Not its #1 purpose.  I'm not judging you. You asked what the church believes. 

    The church says NFP is acceptable because God made a woman fertile only during a small window of time.  If you're having sex thinking, "God, I don't want to get pregnant!" then you're forgetting what its #1 purpose is.  The church also asks that you be <em>open</em> to having children.  If you're contracepting, you're not open to having children.  Right now, DH and I are charting to avoid.  But I never have sex thinking, "Oh my God I hope I don't get pregnant from this!" If I did get pregnant this cycle, I'd thank God for blessing me with a child because that would mean He felt I was ready to have children.  One of my favorite quotes: "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans."
     
    Again, I'm not judging. If you cannot have children now, and you want to use BCP, use BCP. You specifically asked how the church feels, and I'm explaining why they feel it degrades the act when you contracept.  Again, read <em>Humanae Vitae</em> or <em>Good News About Sex and Marriage</em>.  It'll answer all your questions.
    ---------
    Anniversary

    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers
  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    OP, another big reason the pill is a no-no is because it causes abortions.  while it may not directly abort a child, it makes for a hostile environment by thinning the uterine lining and making it very difficult for a fertilzed egg to implant.  IUDs also prevent implantation of a fertilzed egg.

    I like the security and effectiveness of the pill. 

    i again, dont get comments like this.  NFP is secure and effective, and even more effective than the pill!
  • caitriona87caitriona87 member
    Fifth Anniversary 100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Also one post mentioned that BC "degrades the act because now you're doing it just for pleasure without meaning behind it." I honestly think that is a VERY unfair thing to say. My fiance and I have been wating almost 5 years to get married, and to, yes, have sex. I know that sex, even if it is protected, is going to be such a magical and MEANINGFUL experience for us. Pleasure is a natural by-product of sex and of course we are going to enjoy it to the fullest! But that does not mean it will not be as intimate or emotional for us.

    Ditto what catarntina said, but also:

    Besides how we feel, our emotions, there is also an objective reality that is not affected by our emotions. The Church teaches that contracepted sex is, by its very nature, not as complete or as unitive as natural sex. That is because sex in its natural state is a full, complete gift of self, holding NOTHING back from one's spouse. Contraception holds back one's fertility, as well as rejecting the fertility of the spouse. It is a refusal to give one's entire self and to receive the spouse's entire self. So no matter how we feel about it, contracepted sex is objectively different from natural sex.

    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • chrissyinatlchrissyinatl member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I can honestly say that "I'm not sure" yet.  If you happened to read my other post on this subject recently, you will see that in my parish we HAVE to take this class.  It's 3 times (3 months in a row) for 2.5 hours/session.  After 7.5 hours of education, perhaps I will change my ways.

    However, I have been on depo provera for 10 years and I love not having a period.  I realize that for a few years (while hopefully child-bearing) that I will have to go a little more natural. 

    I know it will be good in general to take my body off the chemicals, so we'll just have to see. 

    I got jumped all over (like you are in this thread) for thinking that depo is okay.  So my thoughts are with you, OP!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    I know I'm not going to change minds or anything like that, but just wanted to share that I work 40-60 hours a week, am working on my Master's and FI works, has an intership, and is going to school so he can become a firefighter (so his internship consists in 24 hour shifts). It creates more of a hardship now and will continue to be a challenge when we're married, but we don't want to settle for what we see as second best. I like to think of it as a food analogy: junk food is quick and easy and gets the job done (of making you full), but a feast from scratch takes much more work and is much healthier and more satisfying in the end. Anything less than God's design is less than the banquet feast. So we're putting in the classes and work for NFP.

    Good luck on your search and journey and may God bless you and your FI. And kuddos for waiting to share the joys of sex for your married life together - it's not that common anymore and I respect you and your FI for making that choice.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_anyone-not-doing-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:d5a03c93-a38e-4dd0-9daa-c0180815adb6Post:08f1e2a7-973b-4e6a-9961-2bb4d7edf65e">Re: Anyone not doing NFP?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I can honestly say that "I'm not sure" yet.  If you happened to read my other post on this subject recently, you will see that in my parish we HAVE to take this class.  It's 3 times (3 months in a row) for 2.5 hours/session.  After 7.5 hours of education, perhaps I will change my ways. However, I have been on depo provera for 10 years and I love not having a period.  I realize that for a few years (while hopefully child-bearing) that I will have to go a little more natural.  I know it will be good in general to take my body off the chemicals, so we'll just have to see.  I got jumped all over (like you are in this thread) for thinking that depo is okay.  So my thoughts are with you, OP!
    Posted by chrissyinatl[/QUOTE]

    I haven't had a period in two years. For the year prior to that my periods were 10 days long, heavy and accompanied by intolerable cramping. Remembering that, I've been quite at peace with my birth control method and lack of menses.

    I started going to church and did RCIA about a year into my current method. I know its unacceptable in the eyes of the church, but right now it works for FI and I. After the wedding though, I <em>do</em> intend to do NFP. Using the method I do now, I feel very out of touch with my body. I'm at a point where I'm ready to take "ownership" and work with my natural self rather than use artificial hormones to control things.
     
    We get married in 48 days (yay!) and I will be all natural by the end of June. Our intent is to have a baby relatively soon, but ideally the first couple months of charting will be a way for me to get the hang of things and avoid pregnancy but eventually my intent is to use it to become pregnant.

    OP- I think its best for you to do what works for you.
  • clearheavensclearheavens member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments Name Dropper 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    That's awesome you and your FI have been waiting for five years for the "marital embrace."  Same for us, it's also been five veeerry long years of dating.  I wish you and your future DH hot sex when you get married. :)

    Also not to change anyone minds when they already decided not to use NFP.  But I did want to mention that Theology of the Body, a collection of talks given by Pope John Paul II, teaches artificial birth control goes against your wedding vows.

    Here's what you profess to one another at the altar:

    "(Name) and (name), have you come here freely and without reservation to give yourselves to each other in marriage?" (free and total)

    "Will you honor each other as man and wife for the rest of your lives?" (faithful)

    "Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?" (fruitful)

     

    To sum this up, the marriage commitment is 1. free, 2. total, 3. faithful, 4. fruitful.


    1. Freedom exists when there is a choice where you can say yes or no.  The obvious violation of freedom is rape.  Another obvious one is when it's used as punishment or reward.  Artificial BC wasn't invented to prevent pregnancy.  We already have a perfect method of that: abstinence.  Artificial BC was invented for the license to have sex without having to say no.  But only those who can say no to sex show that when they say yes, they do so freely.


    2. If you reserve any part of yourself, including your fertility, there is no total self-giving.  This one takes maybe years of observation.  Seeing how NFP allows husbands to know which phase their wives are in and appreciate the beautiful way nature designed women's bodies to work.  It is a powerful experience when you're making love and you know precisely that it's likely to end up in conceiving.


    3. An obvious violation is adultery, porn, or fantasizing about someone else.  But fidelity also means faithfulness to your vows to one another, through thick and thin, no matter how difficult or challenging, or how much sacrifice.  If you decide to intentionally sterilize acts of intercourse because you decided it was not worth it to abstain while fertile, and thus violate the other 3 vows, you're violating this one, too.


    4. This one is the most obvious. Humanae Vitae said, "each and every marriage act must remain open to the transmission of life."


    This does not mean in any way that couples who contracept don't love each other or have no regards to their wedding vows.  But artificial BC does not help couples love each other better.  NFP can.  An understanding of the prophetic and sacramental meaning of sexual union is essential.


    I hope that throughout this, you're not feeling overwhelmed or that anyone's jumping down your throat.  You asked a question about whether artificial BC is against Church teaching, and that isn't a matter of opinion, it's about a doctrine of faith.  We can answer it using the teaching body of the Church.  We care for you and respect you no matter what you choose.


    Christopher West is a good read and he writes in a light and easy-to-relate-to way on John Paul II's Theology of the Body.  One of my favorites by Christopher West is Theology of the Body for Beginners.  Another good one is Good News about Sex and Marriage (as someone mentioned).


    http://www.amazon.com/Theology-Body-Beginners-Christopher-West/dp/1932645349

     

    http://www.amazon.com/Good-News-About-Sex-Marriage/dp/1569552142

    Follow Me on Pinterest

    BabyFruit Ticker
  • edited December 2011
    I feel guilty about not using or having a desire to use NPF. As many women on this thread have stated, it is a personal decision. No one can make you choose which option to utilize but yourself. 

    I have been taking the pill for a few months now in order to be regulated and adapted by the wedding. I can honestly say that the taking the pill was one of the best decisions that I have made. Not only have my period symptoms lessened severely but so has my period. There are other pros than protection from unplanned pregnancy. 

    It really is a decision that each individual has to make. As with many things in the Catholic church, people have points and matters that they disagree upon. The questions is: can you handle thinking to yourself that you are going against what the church says?

    For all of the people that claim their friends got pregnant while taking birth control: as with all methods of pregnancy prevention, there is no 100% guarantee other than abstinence. NFP is not 100% nor is the pill or using condoms. BUT the prevention rates increase based on the effectiveness of use. Perhaps those individuals were not taking the pill on a specific daily time regime. People that get pregnant using condoms may be using ones that are expired or put on incorrectly. Just because unplanned pregnancies occur with the pill and condoms does not make NFP better. It is also less than 100% effective.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    160 image 94 image 16 image 50 image
  • mica178mica178 member
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Thanks, clear!  That is a very eloquent and easy to understand way of explaining things.
  • meep2meep2 member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Basically, I'm on the pill for other medical reasons, am personally conflicted about it for birth control reasons, and have not yet decided how to handle it further given my medical and generaly NFP risk reservations being in contradicton with Church teaching. The following are things I've weighed very seriously.

    Every person I know who has done NFP (NOT rhythm) has gotten pregnant within a year. It may be because they decided to have children or made a mistake, but the odds I've seen aren't good. This may be because some women report increased libido during peak fertile points. In addition, NFP is NOT intended to be a long-term birth control plan or substitute. It's intended to be used only as a necessity; you're always supposed to be open to more children. I've actually talked to two priests about it (both generally doctrinally conservative), and both expressed serious reservations about it based on what they have seen in their parishes.

    If you choose to use birth control, you do need to understand that it is in contradiction to the church's teachings. I use it currently even though we are not having sex before marriage. I have been taking the pill for several years, and did so before we were dating. I do this because it was the only option left (and the only one that worked) for preventing painful and occasionally scarring cystic acne. Whether the church considers this to be medical necessity is something I'll have to consider, and if not, it's a big decision to make.

    Before taking the pill, I did a lot of research on the abortifacient effects of the pill, as well as IUDs (I like to plan for the future). The most current and unbiased research I have found (i.e. not from sources such as NFP groups or Planned Parenthood) says that while both may lead to lost fertilized eggs (in other words, prevent implantation) their primary purpose is to prevent fertilization. There may be no net increase in the number of fertilized eggs lost by use of birth control compared to the number lost naturally. The question that is up for debate is whether this means that it is not the pill or IUD really causing the miscarriage at all, or whether that is, well, merely a rationalizaton.
  • edited December 2011
    Angie and Meep, when used to it's maximum effectiveness, Creighton Method is more effective than artificial methods at their maximum effective usage. And Meep, as someone who is planning on using NFP, your experience makes me pause for a moment, but I feel really confident that I know what's going on with my fertility and I have friends that have been married for a few years and did not get pregnant in their first year of marriage practicing NFP - just to counter-balance the experiential evidence out there :)
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • meep2meep2 member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_anyone-not-doing-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:d5a03c93-a38e-4dd0-9daa-c0180815adb6Post:53565090-4b44-4a9c-b940-b5cc443c4d52">Re: Anyone not doing NFP?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Angie and Meep, when used to it's maximum effectiveness, Creighton Method is more effective than artificial methods at their maximum effective usage. And Meep, as someone who is planning on using NFP, your experience makes me pause for a moment, but I feel really confident that I know what's going on with my fertility and I have friends that have been married for a few years and did not get pregnant in their first year of marriage practicing NFP - just to counter-balance the experiential evidence out there :)
    Posted by linzluvsgzuss[/QUOTE]

    I'm glad that you're confident and happy with your choice to use NFP! I'd never criticize someone for choosing to use it, especially since there isn't a question of whether the Church approves. As a note, as a result of reading more about NFP from the boards, particularly the Creighton Method, I've been researching whether there are possible ways of addressing issues with acne and migraines that I have had, that have thus far been partially regulated by the pill, through other means.

    The thing that always makes me nervous about NFP stats is that technically, it works even if the people using it get pregnant because its proponents are not supposed to use it as a "birth control replacement," so to speak. But in support of your stats to some degree, Human Reproduction Today found it to be as effective as the pill. And in some studies, the pill was more effective than abstenance! (Yeah, don't ask me how that works. Self-reporting's an interesting thing.)
  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    Every person I know who has done NFP (NOT rhythm) has gotten pregnant within a year.

    two years and counting using NFP.  not pregnant.

    but as angie pointed out, the only 100% way to avoid is abstinence.  that's why when you know you are fertile, you abstain.

    i definteily want sex more (as does H) when i'm fertile.  that's pure nature, i think.  that's where discipline and self control come in.  you have ot be able to say "no" if you dont want a baby.  some choose to throw caution to the wind and take a chance.  they may or may not get pregnant.

    rather than "get into the moment" and have to say no, we have a system where in i say to H "we are good to have sex now until i tell you otherwise"   or "we cant have sex until i tell you otherwise (unless you want a baby)".  that way, we can still have some spontenaeity and it avoids us getting into a situation where saying no can be hard or when trying to make a rational decision abotu whehter we are ready or not for a child could be difficult.
  • lalaith50lalaith50 member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    While I certainly agree that many people who use NFP get pregnant quite quickly... I've asked (or been present when someone else asks) several of my friends who fall into this category, basically the question, "so, did the method fail?" And they ALWAYS giggle and say, "oh, we knew EXACTLY what we were doing..."

    I think that part of the beauty of NFP is that it makes a couple reevaluate "do we reeeeeeaaaally not want any kids right now?" 

    While, yes, many people who "use" NFP have kids more and faster, I suspect if you asked them you'd find that there are almost no "surprises." You *always* know when you are fertile.
    Anniversary
  • catarntinacatarntina member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Meep, if you read TCOYF, it explains in there that it can be used as a long term birth control.  She said something about being on her 384th cycle while writing the book.  If people get pregnant, it's not a method failure, it's user error.   Similiarly to forgetting to take your pill, or using an expired condom.  You may get pregnant.  The difference is, NFP is highly unforgiving to those types of mistakes.  It's possible the people who did get pregnant did not quite understand something in their charts, and rather than abstaining, they took a chance.  Or they completely understood it and threw the method out of the window.

    And yes, you do experience increased libido during your fertile phase. But as Calypso said, it's about self-sacrfice and self-control.  DH has a pretty good feel for what my charts look like by now.  He'll ask around the time I'm normally fertile, "How does your chart look today?"  And I'll tell him no way Jose, or let's go upstairs... It's all about being aware.
    ---------
    Anniversary

    Lilypie Second Birthday tickers
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards