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Illinois-Chicago
ItalianBride87
member
Old St. Pat's- What a pain in the **** (Long Rant!)
I hate to talk bad about a church, but some are just so ridiculous...
So, my fiance and I live 2 blocks from Old St. Pats, so whenever we decided to set our wedding date, we knew we wanted to have our ceremony there. And, the church is beautiful. Well, a couple of months ago, we decided to set our date when we found our reception venue...
I contacted Old St. Pats about 3-4 times, but no one ever returned our messages. Finally I called one day and got ahold of someone and the time and date I wanted had just been temporarily booked/awaiting deposit "15 minutes before I called"! WTF!! So, I put my name down and if that time was released, I wanted it!!!! She said it would be held for 7 days for the other bride and she would call me if it was released.
So a week and a half later, no phone call. I thought the other bride put her deposit, but I decided to call anyway to make sure. Again, 3-4 phone calls over the next couple days, no answer, and no return calls after i left messages. Finally I got ahold of the lady and she says the other bride did not contact her so she was going to call her and she would let me know. In the mean time she sent me an email with some information about weddings at Old St. Pats.
While the 3-4 weeks or so had passed, I had booked my photographer, and was finalizing my videographer. So, I check the email and they have a preferred vendors list!!! WTF again!! This is the first time I heard of this from a church. So neither my photographer or videographer are on the list, and Old St. Pat's has dissed me again.
Ultimately, I learned several things through all this stress:
1. Old St. Pat's forces you to pick a photographer and videographer from a list of like 5 big name companies that may not even be in your budget.
2. Old St. Pat's does not follow up with their brides and does not return messages.
3. Old St. Pat's is like a wedding factory, performing 4 weddings every saturday.
4. Old St. Pat's has so many strict rules, that they make it impossible to have any creativity during your ceremony.
5. You have to have a decent budget to have a wedding here b/c they force you to pay high fees, and use their specific vendors!
Okay, I feel better. Sorry for the long rant.
So, my fiance and I live 2 blocks from Old St. Pats, so whenever we decided to set our wedding date, we knew we wanted to have our ceremony there. And, the church is beautiful. Well, a couple of months ago, we decided to set our date when we found our reception venue...
I contacted Old St. Pats about 3-4 times, but no one ever returned our messages. Finally I called one day and got ahold of someone and the time and date I wanted had just been temporarily booked/awaiting deposit "15 minutes before I called"! WTF!! So, I put my name down and if that time was released, I wanted it!!!! She said it would be held for 7 days for the other bride and she would call me if it was released.
So a week and a half later, no phone call. I thought the other bride put her deposit, but I decided to call anyway to make sure. Again, 3-4 phone calls over the next couple days, no answer, and no return calls after i left messages. Finally I got ahold of the lady and she says the other bride did not contact her so she was going to call her and she would let me know. In the mean time she sent me an email with some information about weddings at Old St. Pats.
While the 3-4 weeks or so had passed, I had booked my photographer, and was finalizing my videographer. So, I check the email and they have a preferred vendors list!!! WTF again!! This is the first time I heard of this from a church. So neither my photographer or videographer are on the list, and Old St. Pat's has dissed me again.
Ultimately, I learned several things through all this stress:
1. Old St. Pat's forces you to pick a photographer and videographer from a list of like 5 big name companies that may not even be in your budget.
2. Old St. Pat's does not follow up with their brides and does not return messages.
3. Old St. Pat's is like a wedding factory, performing 4 weddings every saturday.
4. Old St. Pat's has so many strict rules, that they make it impossible to have any creativity during your ceremony.
5. You have to have a decent budget to have a wedding here b/c they force you to pay high fees, and use their specific vendors!
Okay, I feel better. Sorry for the long rant.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Old St. Pat's- What a pain in the **** (Long Rant!)
(Oh and to clear up any confusion for those who know I am Jewish, my mothers family is Catholic and most of them attend this church).
However, your comments do not make sense to me. My understanding of your comments is that because the church has such a high demand for weddings, they are allowed to treat me "that" way. Regardless, I am a member of the church and I am within their resident "boundaries". Unfortunately, I cannot afford their vendors and their "NO EXCEPTIONS" policy does not allow me to use anyone else. Their staff is unresponsive (however, polite when you do get a hold of them).
I understand I could go somewhere else, and as a matter of fact, I have chosen a different church. However, this post was my review/experience with THIS church, thus the comments on my experience with Old St. Pats.
And perhaps I have misunderstood the purpose of the knot boards. Am I allowed to review churches and give my opinions? Am I allowed to tell my story the way it happened to me?
I feel like every time someone gives a bad review on the board, there is someone who is personally insulted. Old St. Pat's is a business like any other and I will review them accordingly.
Again, I apologize if my review of Old St. Pat's offended anyone. I probably should have been a bit softer with my words.
My point was: so many people want to get married there so they need to come up with ways to determine who will be able to have their wedding there (this is basic law of supply and demand). If they set their price too low, more people will want to be there than they can hold and they will lose out on the business of people who might have been willing to pay more. For example, if they charged only $1000 to get married there, then 100,000 people would want to get married there. But if they chage $10,000 to get married there, then only 1,000 people will want to get married there. But since there are only 52 days they can hold weddings (assuming 1 wedding per week), they still have more people who want their wedding there than they can supply. So they raise their price again to $20,000 because now only 50 people are willing to pay that much to get married there.
Basically, they can afford to charge you a lot/make you use their vendors because many people are willing to pay to get married there. So they need to set the price to maximize the number of people who get married and their profit.
As for being unable to reach people, like I said, all their staff are working part time.
The knot boards are meant for people to get advice. If someone says "Hey, have you used Old St. Pats before, what did you think?" then that would be an appropriate time to come on and say "Ugh, they sucked, they did this this and this to me." But if you just post a flame of a vendor (church, photographer, etc), those posts are not allowed. I don't remember the reason why.
Anyway, I have recently started to use this site on a regular basis, so I may not be well versed in the rules of the knot. However, whether or not this board is limited to advice only does not matter because my post is a vendor review and in essence provides opinionated advice to other members.
The only thing I may be guilty of is being too harsh with my choice of words. And for that I again apologize.
Also, from what I remember, I have seen several other posts on this board complaining of long response times or lack of contact from vendors. I still do not understand how this post is any different.
Anyway, if there is a way to delete this post and relieve the tension I have caused, I would suggest doing so. This result was not my intention.
[QUOTE]Thank you for the mini lecture on supply and demand. However, I understand the basics of economics. (Just as a side note, there are other ways of preventing "women clamoring to get married just because its pretty". For example, limiting weddings to members only). Anyway, I have recently started to use this site on a regular basis, so I may not be well versed in the rules of the knot.<strong> However, whether or not this board is limited to advice only does not matter because my post is a vendor review and in essence provides opinionated advice to other members. </strong><em>I think you should feel free to speak your mind....this is a public message board. </em>The only thing I may be guilty of is being too harsh with my choice of words. And for that I again apologize. <strong>Also, from what I remember, I have seen several other posts on this board complaining of long response times or lack of contact from vendors. I still do not understand how this post is any different. </strong><em>I didn't view your post any differently from others who were frustrated with vendors not getting back to them. </em><strong> </strong>Anyway, if there is a way to delete this post and relieve the tension I have caused, I would suggest doing so. This result was not my intention.
Posted by ItalianBride87[/QUOTE]
I don't see anything wrong with someone posting their experience with a vendor, be it a church or not. We all post good and bad reviews here. Maybe the moderator of this board can clear it up for us.
I think that "recommended donation" should be changed to say "REQUIRED donation".
Its a real bummer that they cant get back to you in a timely manner. I completely condone posting your experience on TK, thats what the boards are here for. Another approach to talking about this on here is to maybe ask what other bride's experience was (communication wise) and maybe there could be a good reason as to why they weren't getting back to you? They maybe should have communicated to you that they were experiencing a high volume of inquiries as the reason why they arent getting back to you as quick, so that you could be more understanding. I'm on your side about this!
However, I do not condone slamming a ceremony location due to their rules. If you don't like it or agree with it, pick something else. I went to a venue that was very clear on their limitations on what can and can't be setup for the ceremony and after I found out all the information, I realized this isnt the venue for me. Was I sad? Absolutely, because it was beautiful and possibly everything I dreamed of. But they have rules and they have them for a reason. From what I recall, these rules at OSP were enforced earlier this year. If you don't like it, move on. Your whining about how ridiculous you think they are is merely your disappointment. But it came off as (well, to me at least) "they are terrible, how dare they." How dare they? If they are doing 4 weddings per Saturday, they probably have a good understanding what is and what isn't working at the church. Can you imagine having to explain to every single new vendor that comes in their rules? That would probably make it so only 1 or 2 weddings could be hosted per saturday instead of 4.
I really think you need to step back and look at this objectively and see their point of view as to why they have the rules the way they do. There are plenty of gorgeous church's that you have the opportunity to get married at in Chicago. If the Church portion is that important to you as well, it might have been better to wait and make sure church AND venue were available for your selected date.
Love is Bald,
Perhaps I was a bit to emotional on this subject, but Old St. Pat's doesn't put their preferred vendor list online, so if they won't get back to me or give me this information when I call and 3-4 weeks passes, what the heck am I supposed to do!! I didn't even know they had a preferred vendors list until like 3 weeks into me communicating with them! And in my opinion, Its almost impossible to book a reception and church at the exact same time.
Its not really the fact that they have a preferred vendors list that upsets me, its that they fail to supply this information on their website or to brides that contact them within a reasonable amount of time.
I guess I am a little angry b/c I couldn't have my wedding here the way I wanted to, so it probably plays a part in my biased comments. :-/
Oh well, I ended up finding another BEAUTIFUL church in Chicago with less strict regulations. I am super excited to have my wedding there!
I know there were some knotties who had their ceremonies at St. Pats who were very pleased, but did mention the restrictions with photography. I think the preferred vendor list was started in the past year or so?
I'm sure it sucks that they have all those restrictions, but I assume it's because it's a historic church in Chicago. It's been around since the 1850's and I think survived the Chicago fire? I don't know if this is a good example, but recently I went to the Vizcaya Gardens in Miami and we couldn't take pictures inside of the house (even with no flash) because it was from the early 20th century and they wanted preserve it. It's like you don't see a big deal with taking pictures, but I've been told that cameras do cause wear and tear on those type of things.
That being said, it sucks if their vendors are very expensive. I know I dealt with that with some of the reception venues. I'm also really glad that my church was really laid back with our photographers and it is a church with a lot of fresco art, stained glass, etc so OP I do understand your frustration with the photography.
Also, I did want to mention that I work for a non-for-profit company and we deal with a lot of churches and sometimes it takes FOREVER to get in contact with someone. It's not really anyone's fault, but some of those people have other jobs and voulunteer at the church and everything turns into a giant game of phone tag. Also, I didn't hear from one of my vendors for 2 months. I was going to pick someone else, but I just gave my vendor the benefit of the doubt and everything worked out wonderfully.
I know this is all stressful, but everything will work out. Hopefully all my ramblings made sense
[QUOTE] And in my opinion, Its almost impossible to book a reception and church at the exact same time. Posted by ItalianBride87[/QUOTE]
Not sure I understand this...
But I am very glad you found something you are happy with because that is most important! It will be everything you want it to be :) Welcome to the board!
[QUOTE]Thank you butteryfly, for understanding where I am coming from. Sometimes I feel like the whole wedding industry revolves around overcharging. When i can't afford the "recommended donation" at my own church, they won't even think twice about moving onto the next bride with bigger pockets. I think that "recommended donation" should be changed to say "REQUIRED donation".
Posted by ItalianBride87[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with you and glad you found another church. It would upset me too, but I'm sure it is for the better, because it's your wedding and you should be in control. That is how I see it! You can now use who you want and be a happier person for that.<img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-sealed.gif" border="0" alt="Sealed" title="Sealed" /> One of the church's we looked at would only allow photos and videos to be taken at the back of the church in the belcony. I passed on that church, even though it was beautiful, no thanks.
Not trying to add fuel to the fire, but mostly every Catholic church that I've been to in the Chicago area makes a point of saying in the bulletin that you should have your date secured with the church first before booking anything else. So, I'm not sure how you can be annoyed when you went against their protocol by booking the venue and other vendors before the church. They even mention on their website that photographers must be from their approved list- so it's not like they were trying to keep this secret.
[QUOTE]So, I'm not sure how you can be annoyed when you went against their protocol by booking the venue and other vendors before the church. They even mention on their website that photographers must be from their approved list- so it's not like they were trying to keep this secret.
Posted by u_rica77[/QUOTE]
Don't you find it odd though that a church is going to tell you, who you can have as a vendor? Are these "so called" approved vendors paying kick backs to be St.Pats elite group? Things like this just burns me up. Those may be their rules but I find the rules to be like a dictator. The church mind as well be in Cuba!
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Old St. Pat's- What a pain in the **** (Long Rant!) : Don't you find it odd though that a church is going to tell you, who you can have as a vendor? Are these "so called" approved vendors paying kick backs to be St.Pats elite group? Things like this just burns me up. Those may be their rules but I find the rules to be like a dictator. The church mind as well be in Cuba!
Posted by butterflyfan[/QUOTE]
Again, Thank you butterfly. I couldn't have said it better any other way.
When I called about our wedding, they had like zero availability for the days/times I was looking for, so it was out almost immediately. And while everyone that I dealt with there during the wedding planning was nice (and side note, everyone I've dealt with at the church in general has been great), what I found to be very off-putting was how much I felt like the church was acting like a vendor. I know they techinically are, but I haven't had this experience with the other churches I looked into or the one we ultimately ended up selecting. Like MrsMLRB said, they're essentially charging what they do and using exclusive vendors because they can and I find that wrong. I know that the church needs money to stay afloat, but for a church to be turning a wedding into how they can profit the most from it doesn't seem very Christian to me. To me, the most special part of my wedding will be when my FI and I take our vows. I'm excited for the party, but without the vows, we wouldn't be having a wedding. I wanted to find a church that was excited to have me celebrate such an important event, not a church that sees me as a $.
There are a lot of people want to have their wedding there who have no connection to the church outside of their wedding (which is fine), so I feel like the people who actually want to have their wedding there because the church means something to them are the ones that are turned off the most by their rules.
Ultimately for me, and what it seems like for you, is that I realized that I didn't want to deal with their rules (and FWIW, I think that a lot of the preferred vendors, especially photogs are preferred because a lot of photographers don't like photographing there b/c of all the restrictions on where they can/can't be and how they can't really move around) so I looked elsewhere.
I think what could be a really simple solution for them is to just post this info online, so that people know right away what they're dealing with and then won't be upset when they find out about their rules later on in the game.
I'm glad you found a church that you're happy with!
[QUOTE]I understand what you're saying about Old St. Pat's. I also live really close to the church and while we aren't members, it's the church that we go to frequently and my FI actually did their adult confirmation program there over the summer. We had wanted to get married there because we live close and attend fairly regularly, so it felt like it was "our" church. When I called about our wedding, they had like zero availability for the days/times I was looking for, so it was out almost immediately. And while everyone that I dealt with there during the wedding planning was nice (and side note, everyone I've dealt with at the church in general has been great), what I found to be very off-putting was how much I felt like the church was acting like a vendor. I know they techinically are, but I haven't had this experience with the other churches I looked into or the one we ultimately ended up selecting. Like MrsMLRB said, they're essentially charging what they do and using exclusive vendors because they can and I find that wrong. I know that the church needs money to stay afloat, but for a church to be turning a wedding into how they can profit the most from it doesn't seem very Christian to me. To me, the most special part of my wedding will be when my FI and I take our vows. I'm excited for the party, but without the vows, we wouldn't be having a wedding. I wanted to find a church that was excited to have me celebrate such an important event, not a church that sees me as a $. There are a lot of people want to have their wedding there who have no connection to the church outside of their wedding (which is fine), so I feel like the people who actually want to have their wedding there because the church means something to them are the ones that are turned off the most by their rules. Ultimately for me, and what it seems like for you, is that I realized that I didn't want to deal with their rules (and FWIW, I think that a lot of the preferred vendors, especially photogs are preferred because a lot of photographers don't like photographing there b/c of all the restrictions on where they can/can't be and how they can't really move around) so I looked elsewhere. I think what could be a really simple solution for them is to just post this info online, so that people know right away what they're dealing with and then won't be upset when they find out about their rules later on in the game. I'm glad you found a church that you're happy with!
Posted by AshleyK2011[/QUOTE]
Very well put... this is exactly how I felt.
To marry in a Catholic church implies that you are there to receive a sacrament....and as such, will act in a manner accordingly. I know in our church, even on the simplest of occasions, photography, whether professional or by parents, is forbidden during the mass itself, because it is a rite, not a runway event. My guess is that the approved photographers are required because they have demonstrated an understanding and respect for the church and its protocol.
If you are more concerned about pictures than sacraments, it is probably best to look elsewhere for a "venue"...not a church.
[QUOTE]Did you ever consider the point that not everyone who enters a church enters it with the respect and decorum due a religious environment? To marry in a Catholic church implies that you are there to receive a sacrament....and as such, will act in a manner accordingly. I know in our church, even on the simplest of occasions, photography, whether professional or by parents, is forbidden during the mass itself, because it is a rite, not a runway event. My guess is that the approved photographers are required because they have demonstrated an understanding and respect for the church and its protocol. If you are more concerned about pictures than sacraments, it is probably best to look elsewhere for a "venue"...not a church.
Posted by mobkaz[/QUOTE]
Agreed. LIB, you also stated it well.
Italian, I am glad you found somewhere that you like that will work for you.
Alpha, I don't remember who said it, but I have seen it before that people who post ONLY a rant about a single vendor are supposed to be reported and removed. I don't remember the reason behind it and as I just got home, I am not feeling up to a post search. You post rants about a specific vendor to find information from other brides in a similar situation. I feel like that is a different thing.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Old St. Pat's- What a pain in the **** (Long Rant!) : Agreed. LIB, you also stated it well. Italian, I am glad you found somewhere that you like that will work for you. <strong>Alpha, I don't remember who said it, but I have seen it before that people who post ONLY a rant about a single vendor are supposed to be reported and removed. I don't remember the reason behind it and as I just got home, I am not feeling up to a post search. You post rants about a specific vendor to find information from other brides in a similar situation. I feel like that is a different thing.</strong>
Posted by MrsMLRB[/QUOTE]
Not trying to belabor this anymore, but I disagree with this. Do others remember the post about the couple who had their reception at the Metropolis Ballroom? This was the place that served wedding cake after it fell on the floor and the bride specifically requested it not be served. Anyways, I recall that the bride's sister or SIL posted on this board about the situation and no one flamed her for venting about a single vendor.
My post is merely a review of a vendor. A review that happens to rate a vendor poorly and unfortunately caused some people to be personally insulted. I have not made any statements such as Old St. Pat sucks or that their staff is useless or anything of that nature. I have not "slammed" (quoting Love is Bald) Old St. Pats in any way. My post is merely MY story of what happened to ME! I'd like someone to point out this "slamming" language that I have been accused of.
After reviewing "the knot's" rules, there are no rules that I have broken here and I should not be "reported and removed' (quoting MrsMLRB). I have not made any defamatory statements, I did not use any vulgar language, and I did not harass or threaten anyone.
As a fellow knottie has mentioned. I should be free to speak my mind, this is a public message board (Thank you Aimers1525). I have not seen one person point out a specific part of my post that violates any of the knot rules. I see no fault in my post.
I would NEVER have thought of a church, in particular one to which I am a member, as a vendor. That in and of itself, I find disrespectful. The lines between the religious component of the marriage, and the "after" party/reception, have become more than merely blurred......
So I think OP's attitude of "how dare they have all these rules and not respond to me right away" is inappropriate. As PPs explained, they are understaffed and trying to organize a large number of weddings. You could have gone somewhere else if you wanted, but since you chose this church you should go along with their rules. And everything I've ever heard/read about getting married in a Catholic church says not to book your other vendors or set a date in stone until you have the church definitely booked.
And I completely understand the approved vendors list. It allows them to screen photographers and videographers who are respectful towards the sacred space and the ceremony. Rather than explaining their rules to 4 different photographers a week (and then trying to follow up to chastise them if they break the rules), it's much logistically easier to have an approved list. And it gives them leverage to make sure that the vendors follow the rules so that they don't get kicked off the approved list.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Old St. Pat's- What a pain in the **** (Long Rant!) : Don't you find it odd though that a church is going to tell you, who you can have as a vendor? Are these "so called" approved vendors paying kick backs to be St.Pats elite group? Things like this just burns me up. <strong>Those may be their rules but I find the rules to be like a dictator. The church mind as well be in Cuba!
</strong>Posted by butterflyfan[/QUOTE]
A little dramatic, no? For the record, I'm not even Catholic, but this sounds so silly.