NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie?

emeejeeayen

(FYI, my wedding will not be black tie)

I've seen on here a few times people say that an event must be worthy of black tie to request everyone shell out to dress black tie. I'm curious what makes an event worthy of black tie? Some venues require it, I know that. 

I'm bored and just wondering what everyone's opinion is  

s-aries8990

I think the amount of ACTUAL formality of an event merits black tie, not the DESIRED attire. Like, a state dinner, formal benefit banquet, or "important" wedding. All of these venues are usually grand ballrooms or hoitey-toitey places, I feel. Also, these events probably cost like $200pp+ to run

I'm just speculating, but I think it has to do with the type of people and the way the event is hosted. I think??

msuprincess04

I have no clue. But I think there are times when black tie might seem out of place. Like a public park or informal beach wedding.

Edited: I'm going to a white tie wedding (a step above black tie) in March. They aren't important people, but they apparently come from some money and it's held a swanky resort (that we can't afford to stay at so we are at a Holiday Inn off the island).

s-aries8990

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-what-makes-an-event-worthy-of-black-tie?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0e274b99-0ff7-4202-a739-dfbe1e933fb8Post:928dffa5-357c-4dc0-a1b4-8023041f4930">Re: NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie?</a>:
[QUOTE]I have no clue. But I think there are times when black tie <strong>might seem</strong> out of place. Like a public park or informal beach wedding.
Posted by msuprincess04[/QUOTE]

Yes

jessicabessica

Top shelf open bar, plated meal (no buffet, potentially tableside ordering at the event rather than preselecting meals), live band, etc.  If you (general you, I understand not you, OP) are asking people to get their hair done and get a tux or gown, you need to be hosting a lux event.

emeejeeayen

Haha, I think it's easier to know when black tie is inappropriate vs when it's warranted. 

I think if I were invited to a black tie wedding I would certainly expect a full open bar and plated dinner. 

But other than that, I think I agree that it probably has to do a lot with the expected crowd, venue area, etc. 

::shrug::

ETA: oh, also time of day, obviously. I think it would be weird to be invited to a black tie brunch? 

thurmanpowell

Wikipedia is rather interesting (albeit unhelpful).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_tie

Peledreamsofrain

I've attended black tie affairs and it is a combination of items that lend to the formality of the night. One aspect is venue. It must be at least partially indoors, or have the option for guests to be indoors. Like a ballroom hall with a veranda. Outdoor only events are normally not black tie, but rather semiformal or cocktail. Another aspect is the food. Each table must have access to attentive waitstaff, and provided plated meals. Preferably that can be ordered there, but not exclusively. Formal placesettings and approlriate glassware is nonnegotiable. Yet another aspect is the alcohol. Under no circumstances should guests pay for it, nor have limited options. Full bar, with wine list. The wine can be limited to several selections, but must compliment food choices, and be available in several varietals. As a side note, a sommelier should be available to guests to assist with selections, but in the US, it isn't considered mandatory. Clothing is a gray area in the US as well. Many European black tie affairs will have jackets available for gentlemen if their own clothing is inappropriate.

dewingedpixie

Before we decided to cut the budget immensly due to heads and family stupidity we were going to do a black tie event. We were going to rent a castle food was about 150 a head. Wedding would have taken place at 6pm party in the evening.

Avion22

I also want to add that black tie or white tie events are in the EVENING!!!   Tuxedos shouldn't be worn before about 6pm.  So if it's a daytime wedding, tuxedos are inappropriate (morning suits should be worn to formal events in the daytime).  

TiffanyT816

My wedding is a 6 course plated meal, not pre-selected. It will have an open bar (though we've selected just beer and wine), to include butler service, doormen, etc. I definitely don't consider it black tie though.

NO2012

The last black tie wedding I went to was an evening ballroom wedding with plated dinner and open bar.  Was it a nice wedding? Yes.  Was the food or atmosphere any different than other nice weddings in hotel ballrooms I had been to? No.  I attend alot of fundraising and political events (lunch and dinner) that are held in similar hotel ballrooms with similar food (IMO it is hard to make the food "gourmet" when you have 350 guests to serve), so maybe that skews my perspective on whether this wedding was "special" enough to warrant black tie.  Essentially the bride just wanted everyone to wear black tie and made it a point to tell everyone months ahead of time that she preferred her female guests to wear long formal gowns (I could never get over the MOG telling me "you know she wants everyone in long gowns"- but this is also the bride who did not send thank you notes).  Nowadays, I think the idea of a "black tie" event truly exuding sophistication and luxury  is lost on many people.  Brides in particular seem to think if write "black tie" on their invitations or spread that idea word of mouth, that it automatically deems their wedding more special, more this, or more that than the next bride, regardless if they follow through on that notion.

emeejeeayen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-what-makes-an-event-worthy-of-black-tie?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0e274b99-0ff7-4202-a739-dfbe1e933fb8Post:b64a5f9b-0d09-4be7-a43f-38fab9f2f547">Re: NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie?</a>:
[QUOTE]The last black tie wedding I went to was an evening ballroom wedding with plated dinner and open bar.  Was it a nice wedding? Yes.  Was the food or atmosphere any different than other nice weddings in hotel ballrooms I had been to? No.  I attend alot of fundraising and political events (lunch and dinner) that are held in similar hotel ballrooms with similar food (IMO it is hard to make the food "gourmet" when you have 350 guests to serve), so maybe that skews my perspective on whether this wedding was "special" enough to warrant black tie.  Essentially the bride just wanted everyone to wear black tie and made it a point to tell everyone months ahead of time that she preferred her female guests to wear long formal gowns (I could never get over the MOG telling me "you know she wants everyone in long gowns"- but this is also the bride who did not send thank you notes).  Nowadays, I think the idea of a "black tie" event truly exuding sophistication and luxury  is lost on many people.  <strong>Brides in particular seem to think if write "black tie" on their invitations or spread that idea word of mouth, that it automatically deems their wedding more special, more this, or more that than the next bride, regardless if they follow through on that notion.</strong>
Posted by NO2012[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Or they think it will look better in their photos. *eye roll* </div><div>
</div><div>lol

</div>

zantster

I think that in addition to what PPs have said about venue, timing, lux factor, etc., etiquette can have quite a bit to do with the level of formality. A white tie or black tie event that is being held for people with certain titles i.e. diplomats, elected officials, royalty will have different etiquette protocols than others that identify them as another level of black tie event whereas at most weddings the expectations of invited guests is a lot more lax than it perhaps would have been some years ago due to a more casual approach to dress in society today. Of course these rules will probably still be more strictly followed in a place where "entertaining" is done regularly like the Hamptons or Westchester, CT where more attention to these details is expected and people have several tuxes and gowns in their "wardrobes."

libby2483

In addition to the gourmet food and top shelf open bar, PPs have mentioned, I think for a wedding to be black tie, you need to have a live band rather than a DJ.  

Peavy

A true black tie event is all about luxury and formality.  It is not the venue alone that sets an event as black tie, it is the host.  Black tie events at hotels are held at the most upscale hotels in town.  I have attended events at one of the most luxurious hotel ballrooms in town -- some have been black tie, some have been business attire.  Black tie events can be held outdoors, and they can be held in private homes.  Again, it is the host who determines the formality of the event, and provides his guests with a luxurious formal experience. 

Black tie events are only held in the evening, and will have the best of everything -- abundant hors d'oeurves and top shelf open bar all night long.  Live music playing during cocktail hour.  Lavish decorations, lighting and floral displays, conceived and planned by a professional party planner.  Multi-course served dinner.  And yes, you can serve a gourmet meal to 350 people...as long as you're willing to pay.  I would say that here in LA, it would be easy to spend six figures for a black tie wedding for food alone.  A black tie event will always have a live band, with a DJ to play during the band's breaks.  No expense is spared.

A black tie event will not:
Be held during the day
Have beer and wine only
Have a DJ
Have DIY decorations

HuckSC

FYI for all the people saying there aren't any events that are white tie unless they are diplomats or royalty, etc. There is a club where I live that hosts a white tie ball after inducting their new members. They do still occur and probably more often than you know, because lets be honest. Unless you've been to multiple black-tie weddings you probably don't know the people that do the white tie affairs to know their frequency these days.

Then there are also the debutant balls. Most of them I see are white tie. And I'm not talking about the crap they show on GG. That is not how you come out to society.

Avion22

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-what-makes-an-event-worthy-of-black-tie?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0e274b99-0ff7-4202-a739-dfbe1e933fb8Post:93e7a91b-d2a9-4093-a5ba-1ae5014f1ec6">Re: NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie?</a>:
[QUOTE]The guests should be held to "black tie" only if the venue requires it. Otherwise, limit "black tie" to the wedding party only.  Business attire has always been acceptable for guests to wear to a formal wedding.  It's discourteous to require your guests to wear formalwear to the wedding UNLESS you know that everyone in your social set owns a tuxedo and evening gown, or can afford to rent one. Not everyone can. My social circle ranges from middle to upper-class.  Most of them don't own tuxedos, and those that rent them only do so a couple of times in their lives - for the high school prom and their wedding. I own evening wear, but my husband doesn't own a tuxedo. Don't ask people to shell out just for your wedding. It's a great way to lose guests unless they belong to a higher income level.
Posted by RetreadBride[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>My husband and I are definitely "middle class" and we attend probably 3-4 black-tie events per year.  He owns a tuxedo and has gotten his money's worth out of it!  Having money and being rich have nothing to do with going to black-tie affairs.  

</div>

lyndausvi

The venue really doesn't matter.  I've attend black tie affairs at conventions centers before.  One day their was a car show, then next a black tie affair, then the was some tire conventions.       With the right amount of money you can turn any venue into a black tie affair.

Black Tie to me:

Top shelf open bar

decent wine list (sometime even wine pairs wth dinner)

cocktail hour with tons of passed food

Mulit-course meal

live music

formal invitation

DH and I are middle class and go to black tie affairs a few times a year.   One event is for a food fraternity of sorts.  It's held at a banquet room at a hotel with about 120 people.  

 Another is a Mardi Gras ball at the convention center with 18,000 people.   Women MUST be in long gowns and men in black or white ties.  NO  EXCEPTIONS.  They have wardrobe police.    In that case we did not have a multi-course meal, but we had reallly great food.   There are live bands and such.  For these balls each section is 'hosted'.  Each host brings their own food and drinks.  If varies from section to section.   We are in the VIP section and get the top shelf stuff.  From what I understand most of the larger Mardi Gras balls are the same.   

Other black-tie events are held in people's homes.

s-aries8990

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-what-makes-an-event-worthy-of-black-tie?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0e274b99-0ff7-4202-a739-dfbe1e933fb8Post:d99a2d9f-5b3b-47dc-ba09-6422f1cb27a9">Re: NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie?</a>:
[QUOTE]Idn Response to Re: NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie? : Is this another made-up "knot rule"  I have never heard that it is discourteous to state black tie.  Never heard of a venue that requires it.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

I'm sure some venues require it for evening events or certain functions, but I've never been to a venue with that rule. It's only discourteous to state "black tie" if the even isn't black tie worthy- limited bar, DJ, salad, entree and dessert only. That is telling your guest how to dress. If the event is truly black tie-worthy as the PP's have stated, it should be fine to denote "black tie reception" on the reception card- because there will be one because the event is that formal.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwr-what-makes-an-event-worthy-of-black-tie?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0e274b99-0ff7-4202-a739-dfbe1e933fb8Post:0d59a403-0946-45ed-b930-f0a454daa41c">Re: NWR - what makes an event worthy of black tie?</a>:
[QUOTE]My wedding is a 6 course plated meal, not pre-selected. It will have an open bar (though we've selected just beer and wine), to include butler service, doormen, etc. I definitely don't consider it black tie though.
Posted by TiffanyT816[/QUOTE]

Yes, we also had a plated meal, full bar, valet parking, evening wedding - but it wasn't black tie. (We also had a dj - on the other hand, my parents had a live band at their wedding, but they had a buffet and their venue was a fire hall.)

It's hard to get to black tie, unless it's an event where it's expected (State Dinner), and hardly all weddings are considered black tie! I think you also need to run in circles and live in an area where black tie wouldn't be out of place at a wedding.

In my family, weddings are basically semi-formal affairs, with men wering jackets, but not tuxedos, and women wearing cocktail dresses. I've been to weddings where people have dressed even more casual (skirts and blouses, khakis and button-downs) for friends.

handfast4me

Funny, I was going to write that I attend many Scottish events that are the equivalent of black tie each year, when gentlemen wear kilt, and the Prince Charley jacket, with black bow tie and "mini-medals" if authorized.  But first, I went over to the wikipedia link, and there, towards the bottom, were the rules for Scottish Formal Dress for me. 

abbiecorwin

I am having a black tie preferred/suggested/would be awesome wedding. (No, I have NOT said that to anyone formally!) The ceremony is Sunday evening in January, with a butlered cocktail hour, 5 course sit down dinner where the guests order their choice from the waiter tableside, wine service and topshelf open bar. The wedding party will be in floor length dresses and tuxes with tails. I think all of this warrants guests in black tie, but will be very happy if my uncles don't show up in jeans! The biggest black tie "rule" that we are violating is the live music; I actually like a DJ better, to play the versions of the songs we know and love. When people do ask me what to wear (my college roommate is buying her first "fancy schmancy dress"!), I suggest black tie, and then say that we are going for more formal than not. The only people that have actually asked are college/twenty-something friends, and as a group they have been pretty receptive to the request. 

ftrmrsweatherdon

I'm not sure what I expect of a Black Tie Affair. 

However, this summer I attended a wedding that was "Black Tie Optional" I expected a fairly exquisit event.

I was surprised when A- The Bridesmaids were in short Cocktail Dress. B- The Venue was Not Overly Decorated aside from the small floral centerpieces. C- There was nothing extrodinarly Fancy about the entire evening. Not at all what I would have considered Black tie.

Peavy

However, this summer I attended a wedding that was "Black Tie Optional" I expected a fairly exquisit event.

I was surprised when A- The Bridesmaids were in short Cocktail Dress. B- The Venue was Not Overly Decorated aside from the small floral centerpieces. C- There was nothing extrodinarly Fancy about the entire evening. Not at all what I would have considered Black tie.

That's because there are many people who think that Black Tie means, "dress up, dammit."  To them, Black Tie means don't wear jeans.