nwr: what happens with wills and estates?

mocha beans

So, my googling attempts are coming up with a lot of confusing and possibly useless info, so here I come for help.FI's grandmother passed away earlier this week; his grandfather passed away last year, so now their estate and will is getting dealt with.  I'm curious about what this process of dealing with the will entails, if anyone knows or has dealt with it.  I know it's all state specific, but I'm assuming the general process is similar.  FI is listed as a beneficiary.Thanks.

mrsLesGrossman

You may be working off text books but I am active in my role.  I have my MBA, CFP, series 7, 63, 65, 24, and Life and Health insurance production certificate.  You are clearly not qualified to advise anyone based on your comments.  I gave my advice from memory only and did not have to google for info.  Even junior associates at my firm are qualified enough to advise on the basics of estates from memory.  I do not hold a license to sell variables, but I can sell fixed and income annuities (Life and Health license). I don't need additional licenses for the type of planning that I do.  Then you are not a financial advisor or estate planner, you must be qualified with at minimum standards, Series 6, 63 for variable annuities.  You also must have your Series 65 or 66 to give financial advice in association with being a CFP to advise on investments or planning.  You are lying and/or practicing illegally and should be reported according to NASD standards.  We maintain two residences, one here and one in the States, and I travel between them, so I can see my clients about once a month if necessary... So working from a laptop and a phone line for three weeks a month in Mexico works out just fine for me   Insurance law required licensed insurance producers to be licensed in their state of business and their state of residence, residence is defined where you live the majority of the month.  We both know that your claim is too much of a liability for any firm and you are not licensed or are lying about your designation to your firm.  You can also ask Oot to verify my info, she has also been NASD licensed. 

goheels05

Expat, you can't win this argument.  Mrs. E makes like $9,000 a minute.  It's true. 

mrsLesGrossman

Heels, even if I made less, she is making claims about the exact work I do in the financial industry.  If what she is saying is true, everything she has done since being in Mexico is illegal.  Every insurance policy she wrote could be canceled. 

foolforfood

Sorry to burst your bubble, but both of you are wrong.  State law varies, but in general, the only way to avoid probate (which is the court supervision of estate assets) is to transfer assets into a trust during your lifetime.If a trust is not utilized, and the decedent leaves a will, the estate will still be probated.  Some states have an exception for smaller sized estates, but in this situtation, it looks like the decedent died with $$$. The probate process is pretty burdensome.  Your husband probably won't get a final distribution for at least another 9 months.  Looks like the attorney wants to liquidate asap, which is great.You should find out who the the appointed executor is and direct all your questions to that person, who will in turn direct you to his/her attorney.  Finally, you should never rely on legal information from non-practicing attorneys.  I work wtih a lot of ppl in the PPs industries, and to be quite frank, they know jack sh!t about estates, yet purport to be experts.  Sorry, don't want to offend anyone, but it's just been my experience...

mrsLesGrossman

Foolforfood, you're name is great, at least you know you're a fool.  You are also very wrong.  A solid will with all assets satisfied would avoid probate issues.  I am more than qualified to discuss estates and trusts, this is the line of business I am in.  If you want to claim to be an expert in estates and trusts, what qualifies you?  Which licenses or assignments or designations do you hold? 

ExpatPumpkin

Actually you don't have to have extra financial licenses to hold the CFP designation. Many lawyers, for example, hold the designation. I don't need the series licenses because I don't deal in variables, and I don't trade with my clients' funds. Anyway, what I do is obviously different from the type of planning that you do, so we have different qualifications/experience/skill sets. And, no my policies aren't invalid as long as they were written in the state where I hold licenses, and they all are. Following that logic, how would a resident of New York write a policy in Texas, for example, if the agent doesn't reside there? It doesn't matter where I spend any or most of my time, as long as I'm not writing policies from another country, which I'm not. If I were actively trading the funds within a variable from my laptop in Mexico, for example, yes, that would be illegal. But I don't, so it's not.

redheadfsu

Foolforfood is right. A will has to be administered by a court (the court process is called probate)

ExpatPumpkin

Redhead and Foolforfood - I agree with the both of you - if you read my posts again, that's exactly what I was saying Foolforfood - It is completely reasonable for you to be concerned about estate planners and advisors. When you're dealing with a life's savings, you should check him/her out.

foolforfood

A solid will with all assets satisfied would avoid probate issues.I'm not sure what you mean by assets satisfied. Are you for instance talking about property owned free and clear?  It really doesn't matter if an estate asset carries debt.  You said you're licensed in 15 states, which region do you speak of?  In the Northeast and Tri-State area, my statements are legally sound. The bottomline is, if you are the second spouse to die, and you die with sizable assets disposable by will, your estate will be probated. Tangential issue, but most ppl should not worry about probate.  In my area, the probate fees are minimal.  Certain states, like CA set enormous probate fees, which prompts planners to devise inter vivos trust instruments.I gave the OP a 9 month time frame b/c final distributions don't occur until all debts of the estate are paid off.  That includes death tax. Most states generally follow the federal rule, that is, death tax returns are due within 9 months after the date of death.

redheadfsu

ExpatPumpkinSorry my comment was for Mrs. E. I didn't read everything you wrote, but you seem to know what you are talking about. 

ExpatPumpkin

No problem, Red

mrsLesGrossman

I know that people in different LOBs can become CFPs but I was talking about how I doubt you are one.  And, no my policies aren't invalid as long as they were written in the state where I hold licenses, and they all are. Following that logic, how would a resident of New York write a policy in Texas, for example, if the agent doesn't reside there?  I said live or work, if I have a client in Texas, I am required to be licensed in Texas.  I do have clients in Texas and am licensed there for Life and Health, they have also extended my 63,65 to Texas so I can trade and advise my clients that are there.  It doesn't matter where I spend any or most of my time  Yes, it does, according to the rules of insurance carriers, you are a resident of where you spend the majority of time.  If they know how much you are in Mexico, they would drop your assignment.  I know this from going for CE and because someone from my team started doing NY/Lon, with more time in London, same thing applied to him.  What makes you above the rules?  Redhead, no one is debating probate, we are discussing probate issues.  Foolforfood, I am in NY.  I am talking about all assets of the estate being accounted for via estate or trust.  The probate issue I rose from the beginning was if the will is missing specific assignments or if there is no will at all.  No one is arguing against probate existing. 

mrsLesGrossman

My only issue here is that expat seems to be FOS about being in finance, within the capacity that she claims. 

mocha beans

Grandma had no debt, she wiped out everything years and years ago, all the properties and cars are owned free and clear.  We just got word that everything down to the dishes and jewelery is to be liquidated after the funeral.The longer it takes, the better for us, we can do our research and decide a course of action.  We're both spenders, unfortunately, and having a possibly substantial amount of money dropped into our laps is actually really scary.  It's sad, but it's always been in the back of our minds that if worse comes to worse, there's always this inheritance.  But if we're unsmart about it and piddle it away or don't invest it wisely, there's nothing.

foolforfood

If real property and all assets are in the will, it avoids probate. Wrong.  A 1L law student would know better than this.If there isn't a will or there are parts of the estate not mentioned, that will go to probate. If the decedent does not leave a properly executed will, the estate must be probated as an intestate estate.  Distributions are made according to state intestacy law.  This is moot though, b/c the OP says there is a will.You also mentioned that if certain assets are not accounted for in the will, something else happens.  However, a will generally includes a residuary clause which instructs the disposition fo any asset not specifically named in the will.Bottomline: I think you are confusing intestacy law with non-probate assets.

redheadfsu

Mrs. E I promise i'm not trying to start anything, but you wrote "If real property and all assets are in the will, it avoids probate."Which is untrue- if real property is in the name of the deceased, it must be probated. Testate (Will) can be more difficult than intestate (no will)

ExpatPumpkin

Mocha - The good thing is that you recognize that you're capable of blowing it all, so you've already won half the battle. I'd recommend that you find a good planner, if you don't have one already, and let them help you exercise restraint. Then FI's grandma would be proud

foolforfood

Which is untrue- if real property is in the name of the deceased, it must be probated. Correct.  Unless of course it's held jointly with a surviving spouse.  In that case, it is classified as a non-probate asset transferred automatically to the surviving spouse.  The transfer will typically avoid death tax per the marital deduction. 

mrsLesGrossman

Do I have to repeat myself?  I said issues with probate, which I have seen.  Issues like the court deciding where the assets will go and what percent.  Again, I am not talking about probate in general. 

mrsLesGrossman

Expat, you never answered what I asked.  Why don't you just admit that you are not the most honest one here?  We both know you aren't being honest about your current role. 

foolforfood

But why are you wasting time talking about a decedent who dies w/out a will?  That's not what the OP described. I'm continuing this convo b/c I'm worried that you still abide by this statement, "If real property and all assets are in the will, it avoids probate."

redheadfsu

foolforfoodCorrect again. I didn't get into that since OP said both spouses had passed & I assumed no one else was on the deed.   Mocha Beans The attorney probating the will should help you. He even can help set up a trust for you (since you know you are bad with money) 

redheadfsu

Sorry it keeps bolding

ExpatPumpkin

E - I honestly can't understand why you think I'm being dishonest. Everything I've written about my situation and qualifications is the truth. I will look into what you said about US residency, however, as I could always lengthen the time I spend in the States in order to be in compliance, if it's necessary.

mrsLesGrossman

But why are you wasting time talking about a decedent who dies w/out a will? That's not what the OP described.  I mentioned both because I wanted Mocha to know both.  I already knew her situation and we have discussed other aspects of it before.  Expat, I don't believe you because you are either knowingly out of compliance or are just not telling the truth.  There is no way that you can be ignorant of the rules considering this is discussed in training and constantly in CE. 

foolforfood

One more time:I'm continuing this convo b/c I'm worried that you still abide by this statement, "If real property and all assets are in the will, it avoids probate."Do you still stand by that statement?

ExpatPumpkin

E - Can you point me in the direction of the regulations regarding residency? Living out of the country is not something that I ever remember being covered in CE classes. But I've also never taken any of the series CE's like you have. Also, my CFP coursework counted as my insurance license CE's for the next two years, and this issue was never mentioned. In any event, over the last year, I have spent more than half of my time in the States and I still own property and pay taxes there... So if what you're saying is true, I'm not out of compliance yet; but I could be in the future, and I definitely want to avoid that. Also, if I wanted to fake what I do online, I'd think of something much more glamorous and interesting than finance

mrsLesGrossman

I should correct my statement, you're right, and I missed that comment before.  I meant probate issues.

mrsLesGrossman

E - Can you point me in the direction of the regulations regarding residency? Living out of the country is not something that I ever remember being covered in CE classes. But I've also never taken any of the series CE's like you have. Also, my CFP coursework counted as my insurance license CE's for the next two years, and this issue was never mentioned.  I can give you links and details tomorrow when I am at work.  I have the very angry email from a compliance manager that was sent to our team because of my NY/Lon associate.  I am talking about insurance CE, not series CE which has completely different material.  This issue is covered in licensing coursework so it doesn't matter if you didn't get the info in your CFP coursework, it wouldn't be covered there anyway. 

foolforfood

You should also revise this statement: "If the letter of testamentary or assignment isn't given, then it through probate."Here's where you are confused:  Only the probate court has authority to issue letters testamentary.  Therefore, letters cannot be issued unless the estate is probated.  If there is no will, an administrator will be given letters of administration via the same probate process.