Agree or disagree?

karenttrouble

disagree- why is it better for the gov to pay for your housing so you can pay for your health insurance?

shannonalise

Really? Every time? Why on earth are you paying so much attention to what people in front of you are buying and using to buy their food? Seriously!And why do you think this is a "Southern state" thing?Agreed Irish. I think there are CERTAINLY people who abuse the system, but I think the biggest problem here is blanket generalizing. I saw "Capitalism: A Love Story" this weekend and it was incredibly eye opening. I have a somewhat (though not much since I've always agreed) different view on a lot of things now.

banana468

I still think taxing soda to pay for health care is one of the best ideas I've heard. Good to tax one of the biggest sources of our health problems in this country.Seriously?  This is one of the worst ideas I've heard.1) Why tax just the soda?  Tax the potato chips, Crisco, ANYTHING with high fructose corn syrup and diet drinks too.  Studies show that those who drink diet drinks have an increased desire for more sweet foods and switching to regular soda can actually have the reverse effect that people speculate - weight can be LOST.  2) What will you do when people stop buying soda?  I live in CT where the budget is based on revenue from slot machines.  In the last year, the casinos have not done well due to the economy so there was a HUGE deficit in the budget.  When you tax something that is a choice, people will make the choice to stop consuming that item - and you're left with the budget deficit again.Beyond that, you can find people who will use loopholes in gov't policies in ALL tax brackets.  My mother taught children in a VERY poor city and they owned more name brand clothing than she did.  The school was within walking distance of the children but they were all dropped off in nicer cars than my mother owned.   However there were still children in the school who did need the gov't assistance that was provided.  You'll find the same when you see a millionaire who has a child qualifying for tons of gov't college aid because of how he files his taxes. 

MeredithE

How does someone who makes so little money , they qualify for food stamps, qualify for a car loan in which they can afford an Escalade? Its possible the people you see in the Expeditions or Escalades are driving a relatives car in order to get back and forth to the store. Additionally the local governments dispersing food stamps have restrictions on what stores and the types of groceries you may buy. If the store is too expensive you cannot use Food Stamps, Independence Card, EBT card, etc. This may exaplin why I have never seen someone use Food Stamps at Whole Foods. My local Kroger has a big sign in the Seafood seaction saying EBT cards cannot be used to purchase any steamed items. I understand it must burn a bit to see items you believe are expensive being bought, but healthier food is more expensive. What should the person have been buying? Who's to say the person was having a celebration dinner for one of the kids doing well in school? Finally, there are measures in place to prevent people from abusing the system. Many times when further measures are proposed they are found to NOT be cost effective.

shannonalise

How does someone who makes so little money , they qualify for food stamps, qualify for a car loan in which they can afford an Escalade? Its possible the people you see in the Expeditions or Escalades are driving a relatives car in order to get back and forth to the store. Additionally the local governments dispersing food stamps have restrictions on what stores and the types of groceries you may buy. If the store is too expensive you cannot use Food Stamps, Independence Card, EBT card, etc. This may exaplin why I have never seen someone use Food Stamps at Whole Foods. My local Kroger has a big sign in the Seafood seaction saying EBT cards cannot be used to purchase any steamed items. I understand it must burn a bit to see items you believe are expensive being bought, but healthier food is more expensive. What should the person have been buying? Who's to say the person was having a celebration dinner for one of the kids doing well in school? Finally, there are measures in place to prevent people from abusing the system. Many times when further measures are proposed they are found to NOT be cost effective.Interesting! Agreed, agreed, agreed.

MeredithE

I live in Atlanta, my local Kroger serves lower income people.  On the first of the month there isn't a grocery cart in sight. That said, I hardly ever see these "abuses" people are speaking of.  IMO, people have cherry picked one or two incidents and have exaggerated the frequency of said incidents.

talltalltrees

I also there shold be a time-limit. Period. There are generations breeding generations who know nothing else than to live off the systemThere is already a time limit and in many states, a limit to how many children you can collect for too. I'm just amazed at how much some of you all know about total strangers' lives and finances.

fangsiting

EVERYTIME i go to the grocery store I'm behind someone using food stamps, buying luxury items, dressed head to toe in name brands (as are their kids) while I pay full price for whatever is on sale.I don't buy this for a second.  Good fashion in Alabama is hard to find, even in Birmingham.  You are not seeing people in lower Alabama dressed in name brands.  Of course there is abuse, but there are genuinely people out there that need help.  I have never seen anyone at the grocery store in designer clothes buying fancy food with food stamps even when I lived in a urban lower income environment.    Also, why are you paying full price for your items instead of the sale price?  That's pretty dumb.  

talltalltrees

I honestly don't care what she was buying it for, it was the point that she was spending $500 on unnecessary items. There was nothing else in the cart. No bread, milk, veggies, fruit, cereal, anything. I think its complete bullshiit that she spent government money on frivolous crap.But see, it's not like you get an unlimited amount of money. You get a set amount each month. If she wants to blow her entire food budget for the month on crab and lobster, then eat nothing at all for the last three weeks, why do you care?

MeredithE

In my example the woman was spending money on top of the line crab meat and steak. It would have been just as healthy and cheaper to buy backfin crab meat and sirloin steak. I honestly don't care what she was buying it for, it was the point that she was spending $500 on unnecessary items. There was nothing else in the cart. No bread, milk, veggies, fruit, cereal, anything. I think its complete bullshiit that she spent government money on frivolous crap.(1) It would cost tax payers more money to put in provisions preventing someone from buying Filet Mignon but allowing sirloin. (2) How do you know she wasn't' already stocked up on break,milk,veggie and fruit already?(3) These people only get a set amount of money per month, why on earth does it matter what they buy?

MeredithE

TTT-Jinx!!!!!

ThePinkSuperhero

Totally disagree.  Diseases like cancer or ALS don't care how much money you have; people of all income levels get them.

laboheme68

People who say stupid stuff like your friend really have no idea what they're talking about. Do they know how expensive healthcare can be for people with pre existing conditions? I had a heart condition a few years back, and my work wasn't providing insurance. No major healthcare companies would insure me because I was a liability. I could have gotten insurance through COBRA, but that was $400 a month. Eventually I found insurance through a small insurance company for $200 a month, but they wouldn't cover any medical expenses related to my heart condition. Pardon me, but isn't that the point of insurance? Oh, and at this time, I had just graduated college and was making less than $20k/year.

jennandnickgetmarried

Some of you have asked why we know so much about these people's lives...My FI works in a welfare office, and while there are definitely people who the money is helping, I can tell you from his experience that a good majority of those on welfare (at least, in our area, I'll try not to generalize for the whole country) are taking the government for a ride.When you live in the area we do, and you see what he sees every day, it does become difficult to understand that welfare is meant to help people who need it.

MeredithE

Jenn if your fiance knows these people are taking the government for a ride, why isn't he doing anything about it? With the state of the current economy and all municipalities being dead broke I am sure this would be useful information for your husbands employer. 

jennandnickgetmarried

Meredith, so happy that you enjoy assuming things.  I'm glad you know what goes into my FI's job day in and day out.  You should probably apply for it since you'd be so much better at it.He A) does deny people all the time.  Then they key his car.  Or there's not much he can do about it.  He can put in a note that he caught someone lying, and in some cases that helps.  Other times, without significant proof, he can do nothing.  Unfortunately, the loopholes are easy to jump through.

Elizabeth81

lovethebeach- Others have asked this, but you seem to be ignoring the question - if she wants to spend her ENTIRE monthly amount on lobster & filet and eat absolutely nothing for the rest of the month, why do you care?

talltalltrees

"My point in all of this is that I can't understand how it is okay to buy frivolous shiit with someone elses money. I have to come to work every day to afford filet mignon. She doesn't have to. She just goes to the mailbox and collects a portion of my check to buy it. " So it's OK to buy milk and cereal with someone else's money, just not steak? Can you please make me a list of what's OK to buy with someone else's money and what's not? I still don't understand what difference it makes if they spend that money on frivolous things or on basics. They get the same amount no matter what they spend it on. If they want to have one great meal and starve the rest of the month, what's it to you?

weaveral

No insurance=no family doctor.A 22 yr old college grad just died of pneumonia at Miami University (Ohio). She was working 2-3 part time jobs while waiting to get full time work in her field, so no health insurance. Her roommate said she knew she was really sick but was too afraid of hospital bills to seek treatment, especially since she was missing a week of work from being sick. She was buried on what would have been her 23rd bday last month.This should not happen in the wealthiest country in the world. The constitution promises to "promote the general welfare"--the gov't isn't living up to that promise.

talltalltrees

"And I care because its showing that its okay to do this and that you should have no responsibility. That its okay for other people to pay for your basic needs. " So you're against welfare and food assistance period, in all cases no matter what, is that correct?

MeredithE

He A) does deny people all the time. Then they key his car. Or there's not much he can do about it. He can put in a note that he caught someone lying, and in some cases that helps. Other times, without significant proof, he can do nothing. Unfortunately, the loopholes are easy to jump through.How do these people know which car has his name on it? Is his vehicle similar to the Pu$$y wagon in Kill Bill? With key chain and all? If he doesn't have significant proof, how does he know these people are taking the government for a ride? Sounds as if you and your man are making the assumptions.

talltalltrees

 I have to come to work every day to afford filet mignon. She doesn't have to. She just goes to the mailbox and collects a portion of my check to buy it. Actually you don't have to either. If she can sit around and collect food stamps and her life is so easy, why don't you just do the same thing? You can do it too, if you really think she has it better than you do.

copzgirl

I know that everyone who receives assistance isn't abusing the system. There are some people out there who really do need the help and I have no problem with helping them. I just can't approve of people who abuse it. and your ability to weed out the have's and the have not's is based on immediate bias or do you have a special ability to determine this that no one else seems to possess?I would let my tax dollars provide for every family in America before I would worry about one child going hungry based on your flawed logic

banana468

You seriously don't think that people will retaliate against others?I know of SEVERAL people who have had their car's defaced by people who threatened them (my mother included).  Those scorned figure out why they no longer get their way and retaliate on occasion.

jennandnickgetmarried

I'm not even sure this is worth answering, Meredith, because you're just so excited to jump down my throat, but whatever.As mentioned in my previous post, I'm sure it's not like this all over the country.  In our area, however, it's prevalent.  I don't think we should get rid of welfare, but I do think it's an abused system.  I'm not sure what the solution to that is, nor do I claim to.  Obviously, we can't get rid of it, and it's needed.Also, they know which car he drives because they can see him going to and from work, and the parking lot is right outside the office.  It's not really rocket science.  It's how I know what car my boss drives, my neighbors drive, etc.  You don't have to hang out with people to know which car is theirs.

buttaflai

So when my single mother accepted clothing from her rich (uber-rich friend) while we were on welfare, she was wrong to show up shopping in last season's name brand clothing?I KNEW we should have denied the help. Damn those rich people for giving us name brand clothing so that she didn't have to pick up extra overtime hours to afford clothes.

bel138

I know when I come home from work, I don't tell FI about all the normal, commonplace things that go according to plan. I tell him about all the horror stories and terrible cases. Isn't it possible that you have a skewed idea of that welfare system in your area because your FI comes home and complains about the people abusing it? Not many people would come home and say, "Today I saw 15 cases of people that were using their welfare in the 'proper' way and not abusing the system at all! Oh, and there was 1 that was totally abusing it." No, all you will hear are the bad things.

banana468

Here's the thing though: while many people don't abuse the system there are those that do and it's frustrating to see that on a daily basis.Just like most husbands don't abuse their wives, when you work in an environment where you see that happen a lot, you strives to come up with ways to help those who are being abused and to punish those who are abusing.

EastSideFluffy

lovethebeach, can you explain something to me? I'm confused about the logistics of this. I was pretty pissed when the lady in front of me at the grocery store with 4 kids used her independence card to buy $500 worth of jumbo lump crab meat and filet mignon then drove away in her brand new Expedition since I can't afford any of that. So since I'm feeding her gourmet lifestyle, I don't want to pay for her health insurance too.How can you see what the make and year of a car is if you are standing in the check out line?You know those minutemen that volunteer to stand on the Mexico/Texas border and shoot the illegals that come through?  Well, I think we need food stamp Minutemen.  My car is a piece of crap because all my taxes go to buying the poor filet mignon and skittles, so I don't care if they key it in retaliation for me reporting them.I'm just totally confused as to how you can see their car while standing in the check out line.  That's the real kink in my plan.

jennandnickgetmarried

Bel, that is definitely possible.  And with more and more work piled on him day in and out, and with the way our state is treating their government employees, it sounds like a terrible time.  Most of his clients are also miserable people, but I'm not getting into that.I will also agree with banana's comment... where if that's what you see day in and day out, it becomes incredibly frustrating, even if you know it does a lot of good.