John and Jane Doe VS. Jane and John Doe

kimka83

I know this seems like minutiae, but I cannot decide which of these is "correct" for our save the dates.  For our younger married friends, we are foregoing the more traditional Mr. and Mrs. John Doe.  We prefer to list the first names followed by last name, but etiquette websites/books either give conflicting advice regarding this situation or, more frequently, don't discuss this less formal option at all.  Thoughts?  Is "don't separate a man from his name" the way to go (i.e. Jane and John Doe)?  Or stick with the same order as the traditional Mr. and Mrs. (John and Jane Doe)?Wow, I'm over-complicating this.  Help please.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Traditional IS Mr. and Mrs. John Doe. Technically, when you get married and take your husband's last name, your formal name is Mrs. John Doe. I don't get why people are offended by that when they made their choice. That said, STDs can be less formal, so you COULD write "John and Jane Doe" or "Jane and John Doe."

tidetravel

Mrs. Jane and Mr. John Doe or Mrs. Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe.Personally, I would just use Mr. and Mrs. John Doe and be done with it

rhodesign

I don't think choosing to take someone else's name necessarily means that you shouldn't be upset when people neglect to use your first name. That is still yours. I wouldn't want to be Mrs. J.A--that's not my name.Anyhoo...I put everyone, regardless of age, as their full name with no Mr/Mrs.ex. John and Peggy Smith or John Smith and Patty Johnson (if they weren't married but invited together).

cupcake_rampage

I also think it is bull to say that I'm not allowed to be offended when someone ignores my first name.  Personally, I probably would just roll my eyes, but seriously, getting married doesn't mean I'm giving up my entire identity.I myself plan to use both first names on our invitations, as we're also going for a less formal take on it.  Because I'm apparently strange like this (and/or OCD?) I would probably just list the first names alphabetically on the invitation if I were concerned about both husband and wife getting their first names on it.  I realize there are "traditional etiquette" rules, but I don't see why either person is necessarily more appropriate to separate from their now-legal name.

tidetravel

If you list first names, etiquette says the woman's name goes first.

tenofcups4me

I'm surprised you've seen conflicting answers from etiquette sites. As far as I'm aware, the only "correct" answer is the woman's name goes first in that construction so Jane and John Doe. That said, I follow "my own" rule, which is to address the person I know best first. So if it's going to my cousin John and his wife, I would write John and Jane Doe. If it's going to my friend Jane and her husband, I would write Jane and John Doe. That's not an etiquette rule, just what actually makes sense to me. FWIW, when I was addressing my invitations, we opted for: Mrs. Jane Doe and Mr. John Doe OR Mr. John Doe and Mrs. Jane Doe (same rule--whoever we knew best was listed first)

[Deleted User]

Traditional IS Mr. and Mrs. John Doe.this is so FUUCKING offensive.and "don't separate a man from his name" is also a crock.

Bippy

Well, I was going to try and contain my rage against The Man, but yeah, you know what, I'm with Daff. I just took off my bra and burned it.WHAT NOW.(seriously, consider going with what YOU believe, because change comes with habit and with grassroots, not by a modern day Emily Post writing in a rule book. And FWIW, I doubt that anyone but Aunt Thelma will be offended that you remembered their first name.)

eastunder1

I would probably list the people in the order of who I knew best.  Girl first for couples that I was better friends with the woman, and vise versa.  I just can't find it in me to really give a sh*t about envelope addressing in any sense.  Thinking about it for more than a moment is too long.  It's an envelope.  I simply don't care.

SarahPLiz

I think my friends and family will not even pay attention to how I address the envelope, as long as it gets to their house. My sister didn't change her last name.. so does etiquette say that I do Mr. Paul BILlastname and Mrs. Annie OurlastName?? I usually just address their packages and cards to Annie & Paul Ourlastname. BIL gets a kick out of it. He could care less as long as there are goodies in the box. Seriously, one name has to go first if you use first names. If its that big of a point of contention, just go with Mr. and Mrs. Lastname. Really, would you or FI/DH be offended if one of your first names were first and you thought it should be the other.. does that really matter to people?

tidetravel

Sarah - the woman's name should go on the invite first, so it would be Mrs. Annie and Mr. BIL.

tenofcups4me

Sarah, I'd assume your sister goes by Ms., not Mrs., so: Ms. Jane Doe and Mr. John Smith But she's your sister--just ask her.

SarahPLiz

Someties she goes by Dr. too, because she is a PhD. But I really don't think she cares. They do their return address a different way every time. But thanks for the input. I'll list her first.

Kristin789

This: "don't separate a man from his name" the way to go (i.e. Jane and John Doe)

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Uh, yeah, it IS offensive. I agree. Why do you think it was a huge bone of contention during the second wave of the feminist movement? Because that's what our culture SAYS your "new" name is. I totally disagree with it. That said, that's why you have options when you get married. Also, no on "forgets" your first name. There's just no good etiquette for doing something formal and using both individuals first name if they are a married couple with the same last name.

tenofcups4me

[i] There's just no good etiquette for doing something formal and using both individuals first name if they are a married couple with the same last name. [/i] And that's why we need to make it up! Etiquette experts don't make up the rules; they simply tell us what society considers the accepted norms. As we change what we do, the norms -- and etiquette -- will change too. I actually don't think this is minutae or a detail. It's a small way that people can reflect what's important, and to me, ensuring that women have names is important. My personal preference is: Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Smith That's not what I did, though, because it didn't work with the physical constraints on my envelopes so I went with my second choice. Some were: Mrs. Jane Smith and Mr. John Smith and others were: Mr. John Smith and Mrs. Jane Smith

tenofcups4me

Sorry, meant to write "minutia" spelled correctly!

cupcake_rampage

Yeah, I'm sorry, but having the choice at marriage to choose a new last name does NOT mean that I am giving up the right to have my own first name.I completely 100% agree with everything tencups said in the post above.  When etiquette rules get to the point when they are actually offensive, doesn't that go against the entire POINT of etiquette, which are basically guidelines for polite behavior that makes as few people uncomfortable as possible?  That's what someone said in another post pertaining to the nature of etiquette, and I think it applies here.My personal opinion is that the most egalitarian and polite options with regards to naming are probably also going to be the most unwieldy, and then you have to decide which is more important to you.  Regarding whose name actually goes first, I agree that it's ridiculous to care about that part, which is why I originally stated alphabetizing is my favorite idea.

lyndausvi

I'm with East on this one.An envelope addressed as Mr and Mrs John Doe  is not offensive to me.  IMO it's looks cleaner on the envelope.   I also have a long address so just one name takes up a lot of room let alone trying to fit both our our names.  The only time I would even recieve an envelope addressed that way is for  events like weddings.  Right now that is only once/twice a year.  Not something I'm really going to get worked up about. Oddly, if I would receive (never has happend) an envelope address simple as Mrs John Doe.  Then I find that offensive.  I find no reason to not have my name in that caseOn another note.  My cousin is pretty hardcore.  She did not change her name.  Surprisingly she goes with the flow on this issue also.  Her DH is called Mr John Herlastname as much if not more than the other way around, so she just does not see the point getting upset over an envelope she might receive every once and a while.

kimka83

It just seems like the true purpose of etiquette is to make things easier, to do things the way that is "expected" and "preferred" by everyone.  The problem is there is this big generational gap, where older people and younger people may be offended (or at least annoyed) by totally opposite things. 

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Lynda, I agree with all of that. I'm probably not changing my name, but FI already gets called Mr. Mylastname at the vet's office (my cat has been going there since before I met FI). I foresee that happening a lot. At the same time, I won't be offended if someone calls me Mrs. Hislastname. Whatever. The only thing that matters if my name is right is legal documents.Ten, I quite like the solution of separate lines. That's probably my preferred way as well. I don't want to be crucified for doing it the traditionally correct way, either, though!

SarahPLiz

FWIW, conversation with my PhD sister who dod not change her name: Me: Settle an argument for me please.. Do you go by Ms. (since you didn't take P's last name) or Mrs. (denoting that you are married) or Dr. (because you are brainy like that).. and/or do you really care how someone addresses a wedding invitation to you and P? There is an etiquette discussion on a message board, and I contend that you really don't care, as long as it gets to your house. In fact, I think you might not even notice if it was addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Annie Fanny... Personally, I don't look at how it was addressed. It was in my mailbox = I am opening it and am only really concerned about the contents. Little Sis chiming in: I vote for just making up really suspicious sounding names to make the mail man wonder. It's not official ettiquette, but you never know---you may start a trend. (I love her 19 year old brain) Big sis's response: I go by Dr. at work and Ms. at home (since otherwise the UPS guy and the dentist both assume I'm that other kind of Dr. that can write prescriptions And yeah, we usually just list one name right after the other. But you're absolutely right that I'm happy to get the invitation no matter what's on it, even if it's addressed to Dr. Horace McTeethy and his Ragtime Polka Band.