Wedding Etiquette Forum

B-Lists

I don't get them. And I had frankly never heard of them before I came on TK.

What I really don't get is, if someone isn't important enough to you to include on the first round of invites, why are they suddenly important enough to invite when others RSVP no? What exactly causes this level of importance to change? You obviously didn't care enough about their attendance in the first place, so why do you care now?

Is this need for a B-list fueled by the bride's desire to look like she has a lot of people who care about her enough to come to her wedding? Is it a status thing to want a certain # of people at the wedding? If you're on a tight enough budget to require not inviting everyone in the first place, wouldn't it be more cost effective to keep the no RSVP's instead of replacing them with more people?

This is obviously not directed at anyone in particular, but is more of a rhetorical question.
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Re: B-Lists

  • I think it's just having a big guest list and trying to control it by inviting the must haves first, and then as people decline, you invite others to take the space.  I really don't think it's "fueld by the bride's desire to look like she has a lot of people who care about her enough to come to her wedding? Is it a status thing to want a certain # of people at the wedding?".  I think that is way overthinking it. 

    Sometimes you have to prioritize. 

    We didn't have a B list but I can understand why some people would, especially if getting pressured by parents to invite parent's friends and co-workers or distant relatives that the bride and groom don't really even know. 
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  • Birdie1483Birdie1483 member
    2500 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited August 2010
    I see. I didn't mean to sound like a bitch when I said that thing about fueling the desires. :) It came off snarkier than I intended.
  • well hmm..
    I agree- I think B-lists are awful.

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  • Some venues have a minimum plate number. So if you invite 100 and only 75 reply yes, you have to pay for 100 anyway. So a B-list could work in this instance. I still don't like them, but in this case, I wouldn't talk shiit about the bride or groom for having one.

    Some people have to forego inviting friends so they can invite their second cousins twice removed. My mom tried to get me to do that, but I convinced her that if these cousins could not be bothered to acknowledge me EVER even though I sent birthday, holiday, anniversary, etc. cards year after year, they don't get to come in place of people I see and talk to daily. She relented. But for those parents that don't relent, if those far removed cousins reply no, I have no problem with the bride and groom filling that spot with a friend that didn't make the parents' guest list.

    But to have a B-list just to keep up with the Joneses and have 300 people...that I have to side eye.
    9.17.2010
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  • If done correctly, the people on the B list wouldn't even know they were on a B list.  So therefore, I have no problem with it.  It's when it's done poorly, like when the guest gets the invite and sees the RSVP date is in 2 days, then it's rude and might offend.
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  • I don't have any "desires" to have a huge wedding and make it "look" like there are a lot of people who care about me.  I just want my friends there.

    I had to cut my friends so we could invite immediate family who live wayyyy across the country - people my FI and I barley know but NOT to invite them will cause upset in the family fabric.  They "most likely" won't come - so says FMIL, but the invite alone is enough to keep family ties.

    So - if said aunts and uncles do not come - I would LOVE to have my darling friends back.  These are people who DO care about me.

    And, trust me, if I had all the money in the world, I would invite my friends along with the gigantic in-law family.  But, since the recession has resulted in lay-offs and loss of money, our wedding is now family only.  Sometimes, a B list is driven by other circumstances.
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  • edited August 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:1892a7b4-b73f-416b-ae21-54882b955845">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]If done correctly, the people on the B list wouldn't even know they were on a B list.  So therefore, I have no problem with it.  It's when it's done poorly, like when the guest gets the invite and sees the RSVP date is in 2 days, then it's rude and might offend.
    Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

    I agree danieliza!  Our "B" list (I still want to go with vegasgroom and call it an "ongoing intive list") guests do not know any of the people who are currently getting invitations.    Also - invites will be going out WAY in advance.  I will not, however, send an invite to someone I had to cut with only a few weeks left to RSVP - so if I get another NO reply very close to the wedding date - that spot is just going to be empty.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:4a36ef0b-9370-46d6-8c11-62302122d764">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]<strong>Some venues have a minimum plate number. So if you invite 100 and only 75 reply yes, you have to pay for 100 anyway.</strong> So a B-list could work in this instance. I still don't like them, but in this case, I wouldn't talk shiit about the bride or groom for having one. Some people have to forego inviting friends so they can invite their second cousins twice removed. My mom tried to get me to do that, but I convinced her that if these cousins could not be bothered to acknowledge me EVER even though I sent birthday, holiday, anniversary, etc. cards year after year, they don't get to come in place of people I see and talk to daily. She relented. But for those parents that don't relent, if those far removed cousins reply no, I have no problem with the bride and groom filling that spot with a friend that didn't make the parents' guest list. But to have a B-list just to keep up with the Joneses and have 300 people...that I have to side eye.
    Posted by JanoBean75[/QUOTE]

    Ahh I see. I can see now the need to replenish the guest list if you're paying for a certain number of people no matter what.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:3e02b871-c11f-44a4-a3e8-707f887ff425">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : Ahh I see. I can see now the need to replenish the guest list if you're paying for a certain number of people no matter what.
    Posted by Birdie1483[/QUOTE]

    I still think that's ridiculous.
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  • Birdie1483Birdie1483 member
    2500 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited August 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:f96a4491-b56a-41f4-a967-96cc32059e73">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : I agree danieliza!  Our "B" list (I still want to go with vegasgroom and call it an "ongoing intive list") guests do not know any of the people who are currently getting invitations.    Also - invites will be going out WAY in advance.  <strong>I will not, howerver, send an invite to someone I had to cut with only a few weeks left to RSVP - so if I get another NO reply very close to the wedding date - that spot is just going to be empty.</strong>
    Posted by M&R7111[/QUOTE]

    I think this is why I had the "fueling the desires" thing in my head - when people seem to send out invites at the last minute. In my mind it comes off as desperate.



    I do want to note that I don't mean to purposely insult anyone that decides to go this route.  I've just never known people to do this and I don't have any personal experiences to understand it.  Maybe my friends and family have done it, but were slick about it.
  •  I agree with M&R7111. I have a number of family that I feel obligated to invite, not that I don't enjoy them.  But more than likely due to age, health and financial situtions, I really doubt any of them will come.  This is  a quarter of my guest list.  I refused to over invite what my venue will comfortably hold and what I can afford.  If they decide not to come and RSVP early enough, I would like to turn that arround and invite some co-workers.  I feel guilty about it. I just never knew that the parents guests list would keep creeping and creeping.  I feel though that I should make sure that the people they want there should come first since they are majorly contributing and if there is room I can then invite some of my friends.  A few women at work have recently gone thru the same scenario and completely understand the limits. So, though not ideal, I will more than likely take the approach of an ongoing invitation.

    photo c603d655-594e-44b6-a311-72f04e7a561b_zpscca2447c.jpg My Little Sweetheart Follow Me on Pinterest
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:4a36ef0b-9370-46d6-8c11-62302122d764">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]<strong>Some venues have a minimum plate number. So if you invite 100 and only 75 reply yes, you have to pay for 100 anyway. So a B-list could work in this instance.</strong> I still don't like them, but in this case, I wouldn't talk shiit about the bride or groom for having one. Some people have to forego inviting friends so they can invite their second cousins twice removed. My mom tried to get me to do that, but I convinced her that if these cousins could not be bothered to acknowledge me EVER even though I sent birthday, holiday, anniversary, etc. cards year after year, they don't get to come in place of people I see and talk to daily. She relented. But for those parents that don't relent, if those far removed cousins reply no, I have no problem with the bride and groom filling that spot with a friend that didn't make the parents' guest list. But to have a B-list just to keep up with the Joneses and have 300 people...that I have to side eye.
    Posted by JanoBean75[/QUOTE]

    See, this is still something you can eliminate with smart planning. Yes, we always tell you to plan for 100% attendance (as in, make sure you can afford space and refreshments for everyone), but why on earth would you sign a contract for a 100 person MINIMUM when you only plan to invite 100? You shop around or negotiate until you get a minimum that's realistic.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:f996f486-277c-4a45-adea-1f88519e0174">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : See, this is still something you can eliminate with smart planning. Yes, we always tell you to plan for 100% attendance (as in, make sure you can afford space and refreshments for everyone), but why on earth would you sign a contract for a 100 person MINIMUM when you only plan to invite 100? You shop around or negotiate until you get a minimum that's realistic.
    Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

    I was talking to my friend yesterday who just got married - we were talking about guests lists and she said that 6 people "emergency canceled" - and @ $150/plate (!!) it cost her $900 for no one!

    She had heard of another friend who gave her final head count minus X number of people (maybe 5 or 10) just in case.  The theory is that the venue will have less of a problem ADDING people than giving money back for no-shows.

    I thought it was a good idea -
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  • I wanted nothing to do with a B-list for my wedding, but I can understand why people do them.  From my experience with other people's weddings, I can give you a few hints. 

    1.  I've heard a friend complain that a wedding they were invited to wanted their RSVP back 5 weeks before the wedding.  She said "clearly they are doing a B list for their invitations", and was offended that they wanted her to respond so early so they could invite others.  Set a reasonable response date, and if any come in early enough, send the B-list ones then.

    2.  Anyone that is on the B-list needs to be someone who doesn't have contact with those on your A-list.  If you have a friend on the B-list who talks to someone on the A-list, chances are they are going to find out that your invites already went out, and will get offended.  Also, people might post things on your Facebook or wedidng website if you have one saying "loved your invites" or something which will tip people off.

    3.  Be very careful with what you say or put online.  I had an old coworker who posted everything on Facebook.  I remembered the day she posted that her invites were mailed out.  Well over a month later, she text me saying she forgot to my invite but I was still invited.  Yes, she text me my invite.  I declined.  But I found out from a friend on the A-list who still worked with her that she had a minimum number she had to pay for at her wedding, and she was short by about 5 people, so she was trying to fill them. 

    B-lists are very tricky in my opinion, and need to be done smart in order to not offend anyone.  Or, just be straight forward with people on the B-list if they ask why theirs came so late. 

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  • I hate the idea of a B-list.  With that being said, my FMIL is driving me crazy with her invite list.  She originally told me she expected her list to be less than 100, and came back with a list of 190, plus an additional 12 co-workers (and potentially spouses) that FI and I have never met!!  We are hoping to have less than 300, so we coerced her to trim the guest list and we capped our list at 335 overall.  She said that if we had a lot of nos, she would like to extend the invite to her co-workers.  She insisted they would understand if they were a B-list because they've all planned weddings before so they realize that there are limitations.  We're having a great response rate so it looks like we won't even be able to extend the invite to them after all -- which I am glad because I don't want to have all these people we've never met before.  At the same time, though -- they are helping to pay so we can't really say no.  Ugh.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:309cd356-ae97-4dd9-92ae-6538435a3879">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : This is just asking for trouble.    What happens when those 10 actually show and there is nowhere for them to sit and no food?  If you guarantee 100 people, they will have seats for 100 people. It makes the B&G look bad if the reception hall has to scramble to get an additional table set up while your "extra" guests stand around.  Most venues will make a few additional plates, to be safe, but 10 is pushing it.  I have not seen one venue that will give you your money back for no shows.  They still had to make the food.
    Posted by ILoveMilkDuds[/QUOTE]

    No, I think what she was saying is that, given the option, the venue will not mind adding 5 people to the list a few days before, but will not give you money back.

    So her friend's plan was to give in the  final count minus 5.    Of course, you call the venue and add those people if they do not cancel, not the day of.
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  • What I don't understand about the people who say that it's not about ranking people and the b-list people are just as important to them is, why didn't you plan a wedding where you could accommodate all of the people that are so important to you?  If it's a budget issue, why didn't you plan a cheaper wedding where you could afford to have all of those people there?  If it was a venue issue, why was your choice of venue more important than having these people there?  And if there's a chance you won't be able to invite these folks because your a-list decides to come, can you really say it was that important to you for them to be there?
    Married 10/2/10
  • I think it boils down to what a lot of PPs have said.  I have some people who are just sort of GRAY.  I could go either way.  We guaranteed 125 for our wedding.  We are now at 162 on the invite list... so if we net with the 20% dropoff, it could be 130 people, which is fine for us.  However, if it's higher than that, we're cool. 

    If it's lower, I can't in all consciousness invite someone as a b-lister, BUT my brother's SIL really wants to come to the wedding, and she's offered to be "Filler" at any point.  It actually made me laugh.  "PLLEEAASE....if you haven't hit your 125 I'll COME!!!"  It's so open that she's not invited, it's funny.  (this is my brother's inlaws, so not someone I would normally invite at all).

    I'd much rather have someone last minute like that, then actually b-list someone.
  • We are most likely doing a B-list.  Our budget only allows so much, and there are a lot of distant relatives and parental friends that I'd love to invite to make my mom happy, but we just can't afford it.  We've budgeted for 150, and are currently just over 200.  Nearly all the excess are people I haven't seen in a long time, but whom my mother would really want to invite.  The rest are a couple of coworkers who don't care either way, and are totally cool with being last minute invites.

    Over half our guest list is from out of town, and I can probably safely assume that a number of them will opt not to come - but there could always be those who decide a wedding six hours away and this close to DC is a good excuse for a vacation.  I can't take the chance of inviting more than we can afford and having them all come, so we're doing the next best option.  I just want to take advantage of the eventual 'no's' to make more space - but not until after I know for a fact that people are declining.

    I'd rather do the B-list than assume 20% will decline and be caught unawares.
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  • I'm not thrilled with my mother recently saying that she wants to invite some of her coworkers.  I was even less thrilled when she said that she would expect their husbands be invited as well (whom I have never met).  To me, these are my B-list people cuz I don't need them there, they're not family and they have had no significant  meaning in our lives but it may make my mom a little happier if they're there, but only if there's room and/or budget available. 

    If parents were paying for whole thing, I'd definitely let them invite whomever they wanted.  My parent's already have several of their friends on the list, so I see no need to include their coworkers as top of the list people.
    ~Kim P.
  • The minimum plate number makes me so mad.  It is just easier on the venue to make extra plates than having to add on a late night buffet or extra appetizers.  I refused to book a venue that didn't allow me to change the contract to minimum $- but I had to ask for it every time!

    So many venues I went to said they could accommodate 270-300 people (with 270 being the minimum)- with such a small margin for error- how do you invite for that?!?!  I feel like this was the start of B-lists!

    I think B lists are absolutely fine with a ton of OOT guests.  There is just no way to account for the number that will come!  If I had a cousin invite me to their wedding across the country- I wouldn't mind giving them ample notice about my attendance and allow them to invite the people who are there for them on the day-to-day basis!
  • I think they are awful, especially when I can tell I was B-listed.

    That said, if we get enough no's FI and I are going to invite some of our co-workers.  Right now we are at a max for budget and space, however most of the guests are out of town.  We are sending our invites out at the 9 week mark, so we should have an idea before 6 weeks whether we can include co-workers.  It's kind of a B list, so I guess I'm a hypocrite.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:7b7a9c97-345f-402e-99fa-a7cd3d4a69be">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : I was talking to my friend yesterday who just got married - we were talking about guests lists and she said that 6 people "emergency canceled" - and @ $150/plate (!!) it cost her $900 for no one! She had heard of another friend who gave her final head count minus X number of people (maybe 5 or 10) just in case.  The theory is that the venue will have less of a problem ADDING people than giving money back for no-shows. I thought it was a good idea -
    Posted by M&R7111[/QUOTE]

    B-lists will do nothing to help you with emergency cancellations--you just can't call up someone the week of the wedding and say, "Hi, friend. Aunt Marsha can't make it. Want her seat?"

    I had emergency cancellations too. They happen. And yeah, like PP said, it's a bad idea to underestimate. How embarassing would it be if you ran out of food?
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:175152e1-ef68-4395-b7f5-f192fa78f72d">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : This is proper etiquette.  You don't split a social unit by inviting one part of a married couple and not the other.
    Posted by ILoveMilkDuds[/QUOTE]

    I understand it's not proper etiquette. She initially gave me a list with just their names on it so I asked her if she intended just them without their husbands, which is when she said, "Oh, no, husbands too"
    ~Kim P.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:a245b201-cb93-45c7-b2e4-cc4c01225648">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B-Lists : B-lists will do nothing to help you with emergency cancellations--you just can't call up someone the week of the wedding and say, "Hi, friend. Aunt Marsha can't make it. Want her seat?" I had emergency cancellations too. They happen. And yeah, like PP said, it's a bad idea to underestimate. How embarassing would it be if you ran out of food?
    Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

    A couple of the venues I looked at asked for a preliminary count, and then said that while you could go up slightly from that in the last few days before the wedding, they would not allow you to reduce it.  So, yeah, absolutely if I had that kind of arrangement with a vendor, and there were some guests I wasn't sure about, I might give the prelim estimate slightly under and adjust up at the final deadline.

    And it depends on just how last-minute the cancellation was.  I have a couple of coworkers who'd love to come, and who I'd love to invite.  They wouldn't take precedence over close family, but if I had last-minute cancellations I'd call and invite them, and they'd be happy to come if they didn't already have plans.  They've already said so.
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  • One of H's cousins is getting married on October 2.  Their RSVP date was July 22.  This implied to me that they had a B list (which they did).  Not only do I think B lists are rude, but I also think it's rude to expect your A-listers to RSVP so early for a wedding.
    image
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:3a4f43c9-1781-4fa1-b771-aa78c78641e0">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]One of H's cousins is getting married on October 2.  Their RSVP date was July 22.  This implied to me that they had a B list (which they did).  Not only do I think B lists are rude, but I also think it's rude to expect your A-listers to RSVP so early for a wedding.
    Posted by frogurt814[/QUOTE]

    Yeesh.  Their invitations shouldn't even have been sent by July 22.
    Married 10/2/10
  • We were B-List for an old coworkers wedding. We worked with her and her husband at a restaurant, and were friends with a lot of the same people so we saw her a decent amount, but we were never close. We never expected an invite but the had a high minimum and a lot of declines. We were invited a couple weeks before the wedding.

    We went mostly because a lot of our friends that we were closer to were going so we knew it would be fun. We weren't really offended but I guess I would have been if I was expecting an invite in the first place.

    I do think it can be done without offended anyone though. Invite OOT people first, make RSVP date just slightly early, and then invite the in town friends (as a  group, not as RSVPs come in). If it's mainly divided between friends and family I don't think anyone would notice.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_b-lists-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:4c12767f-f931-4d41-a755-659c1a2608a4Post:3a4f43c9-1781-4fa1-b771-aa78c78641e0">Re: B-Lists</a>:
    [QUOTE]One of H's cousins is getting married on October 2.  Their RSVP date was July 22.  This implied to me that they had a B list (which they did).  Not only do I think B lists are rude, but I also think it's rude to expect your A-listers to RSVP so early for a wedding.
    Posted by frogurt814[/QUOTE]

    That is absurd.  Agreed with PP that they should never have even sent them out by then.  That sounds like someone who has a B-list and a C-list. 

    Just a heads up to everyone who is saying they are planning on doing a B-list because they expect so many OOT guests not to come.  The downside with that is a HUGE majority of our OOT guests waited until the last minute of our RSVP deadline to decide if they were coming because of work availability and flight schedules.  Of course, most ended up not coming because of how expensive flights got, but had we planned on doing a B-list we never would have had enough time based on when we got our responses back. 
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • July 22nd to October 2nd is 10 weeks.  I wouldn't say that they shouldn't have been sent by then - our A-list will probably go out at about 11 weeks, which it would do regardless of having one list or two, because we have so many out of town guests and are not doing save-the-dates.

    That said, 10 weeks is definitely too early for an RSVP date.  Our A-list RSVP date will probably be around 6-7 weeks out from the wedding, which I know is still early, but... oh well.
    image
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