Called Off Wedding!

scurtis07

My friend and her FI have officially split! (surprised it lasted this long) But my real purpose for this post is to ask the inevitable...

Who gets the ring?

It was as "mutual" as a break up could be... she is a biz-natch to him, and he was always aloof with a possible wondering eye, and a new promotion across the country, and I guess when she realized she wouldn't move for him, and he realized he wouldn't stay for her, things kind of ended themselves..

I haven't asked if she is giving up the ring to him, but I will eventually..

But when neither is really at fault, who should keep the ring?

stephparks

i think the man gets it? something about the woman not fulfilling the promise to marriage or something. i'm not sure though.

scurtis07

Yeah, I guess if he cheated on her and HE called it off, then maybe she should keep it, but, why would you want to..? I guess to sell it.

ootmother2

Depends on the state who legally keeps the ring.

Good manners indicate that she return it.

mrabbito

friends of our have been engaged/unengaged/engaged...about 3 times.  my question is, does he have to keep re-proposing every time they get back together!? 

i think if its mutual you give it back to the guy, but if shes a biatch, that may not be an option!  if dude cheats, i would keep it, sell it and go shopping! 
sad, but sometimes you know 2 people just might not make it!

ootmother2

In New York State, the ring will go back to the man, regardless of the party calling off the wedding.

Decision for John Mulhern, (mid 90s, I think) set the precident

kellyjellybelly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:6b29b055-9c7e-4f73-9592-86e01a95928f">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]i think the man gets it? something about the woman not fulfilling the promise to marriage or something. i'm not sure though.
Posted by stephparks[/QUOTE]
I want your puppy.

kellyjellybelly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:02a67081-f39b-40fb-ad92-7c309fd094fb">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]In New York State, the ring will go back to the man, regardless of the party calling off the wedding. Decision for John Mulhern, (mid 90s, I think) set the precident
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]
I know nothing about law, but I find that interesting.  I mean, H GAVE it to me.  So...  how is it still his?  I could google the court ruling, but i'm lazy.<div>FWIW, I would totally give the ring back.  </div>

tenofcups4me

I don't know about legally, but morally, I think she should return it to him if he paid for the whole thing since it's not just his fault that they're breaking off, but mutual.  

Beachy730

I told H since he proposed that I'm keeping the ring regardless.  But I'm sure if I were the one to call off a wedding I'd give it back.  If he called it off though I'd probably keep it to sell it just to spite him. 

The only wedding I personally know to be called off was an engagement ring passed down in the guy's family so she definitely gave it back.

ootmother2

The judge here ruled tht it was a part of a contract of matrimony and she breeched the contract.

MY NYC trivia. John Mulhern was a trader at a competiting firm.

kellyjellybelly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:85d72a8f-2a67-4beb-9f51-f85a25a49884">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]The judge here ruled tht it was a part of a contract of matrimony and she breeched the contract. MY NYC trivia. John Mulhern was a trader at a competiting firm.
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]
Interesting.  

ootmother2

The ring in question was some outragous half a million dollar bling thing but it did make for fun news

Belle2Be

It depends on the state if the ring is returned, but for the most part if it is before the wedding, it has to be returned. If it is after, the wife usually gets to keep it since she did the condition of marriage.

scurtis07

yeah I think in a divorce the wife should keep it... I know that he would never take her to court over it, my question is more morals than legality. 

kat112

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:0ec3ffd8-ccaf-4024-a083-0d262145266b">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Called Off Wedding! : I know nothing about law, but I find that interesting.  I mean, H GAVE it to me.  So...  how is it still his?  I could google the court ruling, but i'm lazy. FWIW, I would totally give the ring back.  
Posted by kellyjellybelly[/QUOTE]

He gave it to you with the expectation that the two of you would be married. No wedding = no ring for you

AdeleDazeem

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:6b29b055-9c7e-4f73-9592-86e01a95928f">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]i think the man gets it? something about the woman not fulfilling the promise to marriage or something. i'm not sure though.
Posted by stephparks[/QUOTE]

Holy adorable puppy.

aMrsin09

99% sure in MD if the man breaks the "contract" she keeps the ring.  If SHE breaks the "contract" hHe gets it back.  It was also that way in MI when I lived there.

kimp67

According to Judge Judy (I LOVE her lol) it goes back to the guy because it was given with a contract to marry, no wedding, no e-ring

golden1215

what if you paid for the ring together.... e.g. you were already living together so all the finances were already shared etc?

does he have to buy you out of your own ring to get it back....? sell it and split the money?

danieliza1127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:e6757746-480f-4b75-80fa-cb649e6ec630">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't know about legally, but morally, I think she should return it to him if he paid for the whole thing since it's not just his fault that they're breaking off, but mutual.  
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]

I agree.  If it's mutual, the right thing for her to do is give it back to him so he can try to get his money back.

squirrly

Unless he did something horrible to her, I think she should give the ring back.  Even if he called it off - if it's just as simple as that, he should get the ring back. 

My first engagement I called it off.  He had proposed (out of the country) with a pretty but inexpensive silver ring.  He bought a traditional engagement ring when he got back to the states, a couple of months later.  When I called it off, he took the diamond ring almost instantly, and asked if I wanted the other one.  I said no, so he took both.  I wouldn't have wanted either around, so I can't really see keeping either of them.

He's married now, and has a kid.  I REALLY want to see his wife's jewelry collection.   I bet I recognize at least two items.

LisaLPharmD

He gets it, unless it was given as a gift on a holiday/birthday as well as being an engagement ring

ShanaFry

I think every situation is different. I was engaged a few years ago and we decided mutually that we weren't ready, I of course gave back the ring. But I have a girlfriend who was cheated on, lied to, and stolen from she did not give the ring back. Instead she sold it and used the money to pay off some things that he had gotten her into. So I think it all just depends on the background story.

redheadfsu

Every state is different, but usually the ring goes back. There are several legal theories used, but I think the most popular one is the conditional gift.  

I also think morally it should go back.

MyNameIsNot

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:b3694a9c-3d83-404e-acb3-33016d8e7f03">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]99% sure in MD if the man breaks the "contract" she keeps the ring.  If SHE breaks the "contract" hHe gets it back.  It was also that way in MI when I lived there.
Posted by aMrsin09[/QUOTE]

<div>Randomly, this was a research problem when I was in law school, so I had to look up the cases in a bunch of states.   </div><div>
</div><div>Most states take the NY approach: the gift is contingent on marriage, and if the marriage doesn't happen, the gift is returned.  A few take the minority view, that if HE breaks off the engagement, he is breaking the contract, and therefore forfeits his right to have the ring returned.  The problem with the minority approach is that it invites litigation over who's fault a break up is, and often both parties are at fault.</div><div>
</div><div>I don't recall a case where the court addressed if both parties bought the ring, but I would assume it would therefore no longer be a gift, and be treated the same as if both parties bought a house or a couch.  They'd have to agree on how to split it, either through trading property or buying each other out.  If they can't agree, sell it and split the $$.  </div>

LuluP82

We had a friend do this. He called off the wedding because he realized she was awful (seriously, she was horrid). They actually went to court over it-- they lived in NJ at the time. Her argument was she should get the ring because he called off the wedding and her parents had put down deposits, etc down already (this is a person who literally the day they got engaged had started putting down deposits-- my theory was she wanted to make it as difficult as possible for him to call it off, since they'd only known each other a short time and he clearly hadn't noticed what everyone else had).  His theory was no wedding, no ring (based it on established law).

Judge ruled for him-- he got the ring back. Sold it at a loss. Judge said the function of the ring is a promise to marry, no wedding, no ring. That it's not to cover deposits or make up for wrongdoing by either party (that's what wedding insurance is for).

marissa_claire

If it's a mutual break-up then she definitely has to return the ring, legally.

LesPaul

Can they discuss it, since it's supposedly an amicable split?  Is it a family heirloom - if so, it should definitely be returned to him. 

PharmacyBride

For FI and I.. I would have given it back.. until I had spent thousands in deposits.  If I don't get those deposits back.. why should he get the ring.  If we were to split up today (since he has now contributed to deposits and such).. I think we would sell the ring and split the money.

It doesn't sound like they had done much wedding planning.. if that is the case.. I say he should get the ring.. since he spent the $ on it.  If they did spend $ on deposits.. I say factor in those costs before deciding on the ring.

Manwaithiel

Quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that it is a gift. If you give someone a gift, you don't get to take it back whenever.

Obviously some laws say otherwise. Which I don't understand, since a ring isn't a requirement for engagement.