Called Off Wedding!

LuluP82

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:ababc739-7bea-48aa-b38e-292b4ce37464">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]Quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that it is a gift. If you give someone a gift, you don't get to take it back whenever. Obviously some laws say otherwise. Which I don't understand, since a ring isn't a requirement for engagement.
Posted by Manwaithiel[/QUOTE]

Well the states that have those laws also have exceptions in the cases where the ring was given on a traditional gift-giving day, like a birthday or Valentine's Day or Christmas or something.

The theory is it isnt' any gift-- it's a gift with strings.

emilyinchile

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:ababc739-7bea-48aa-b38e-292b4ce37464">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]Quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that it is a gift. If you give someone a gift, you don't get to take it back whenever. Obviously some laws say otherwise. Which I don't understand, since a ring isn't a requirement for engagement.
Posted by Manwaithiel[/QUOTE]

An engagement ring is a conditional gift. It's not something that was just given to you for fun, like another piece of diamond jewelry would be, it's something that was given to you on the condition that you accept the marriage proposal.

My last boyfriend actually got me a diamond necklace for a birthday, and we broke up about a month later. He asked if I was going to give it back (he really was just wondering, he wasn't pressuring me), and I said no because the only gift that should be conditional is an engagement ring. His response? "Well, I did kind of think that we'd be getting married"...well maybe you should have made that clear when you gave me expensive jewelry because I wouldn't have accepted it!

Calypso1977

if i called it off, id give it back.  if he called it off, id probably still give it back, but i would hope he'd want me to keep it anyway because it was a gift and because the money obtained from it could be viewed as a "consolation prize".  lol

but then my ring was all of $1200 so ii wouldnt really care either way and i doubt he would.  but my SIL has an $18K ring.  that would be a different story id think.

truegirl89

I think that, if he bought the ring and wants it back, then it should be givin' back. If he doesn't want it back then she can sell it or whatever.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Historically, the ring was developed as sort of an insurance policy. If the groom called off the wedding, the woman might be seen as "tainted" since she was engaged before - and she would be able to sell the ring and live off some of the money, since it was assumed it would be more difficult for her to marry.

Today, whatever. If they both paid for it, they should sell it and split it. If he paid for it, it would be an act of good will for her to return it, seeing as how you said their split was mutual.

leah2b

As some previous posters mentioned above, in many states the man would have a legal right to have the ring returned.  He can sue for the return and he can then also stick the woman with his legal bills for pursuing his rights.

orangejulius

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:02a67081-f39b-40fb-ad92-7c309fd094fb">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]In New York State, the ring will go back to the man, regardless of the party calling off the wedding. Decision for John Mulhern, (mid 90s, I think) set the precident
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

Even if the woman purchased it (yes it happens, often) the ring will go back to the man?

I think the person who purchased the ring should keep the ring.

mm133123

him, why would she want it anyway? It would make me sad looking at it.

brookelynpaisley

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:6d8d6ab0-150b-4f70-9f7b-bdbb70703841">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]The ring was not a gift.  It was a pledge to marry.  If the marriage does not take place, the lady returns the ring, unless the groom is deceased.  If the marriage takes place, the lady keeps the ring, whatever the circumstances.  It would be very tacky to keep an engagement ring if you do not marry the man, no matter who is at fault.
Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]

Are you related to someone named Kristen?

kellyjellybelly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_called-off-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5f3ea92f-5447-4338-b42d-75364bc51e8bPost:011b8e25-6349-4070-bd7c-6edbc22c5dc2">Re: Called Off Wedding!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Called Off Wedding! : Are you related to someone named Kristen?
Posted by brookelynpaisley[/QUOTE]
Ha!

JenJen06182011

I would give it back. I know if my FI and I were to split I would give it back, becasue it was a diamond that his mother gave to him for his future wife. So it has meaning to him and his family.

smokeybailey

Over my dead body is this ring coming off my finger.

LD1970

What state are they in?  In some it's an absolute gift, in some it's a conditional git, and in some it's fault-related.

When it's an absolute gift, she keeps it.

When it's a conditional gift, he gets it back because the condition (marriage) hasn't been fulfilled.

When it's fault-related, it depends on who's deemed more at fault for the breakup - the one least at fault gets to keep it.

ALSO:  If it was given on any other gift-giving event (like I got my engagement ring on my birthday so it's part birthday present) it's no longer a conditional gift, even in a state in which it normally would be - it's an absolute gift and I'd get to keep it even if the condition of marriage wasn't fulfilled.  So... did he propose on a birthday, Valentine's Day, or Christmas/Chanukah?  If yes, she likely gets to keep it.

LD1970

The saddest thing is when there's a divorce and the ring was an heirloom coming down the man's side of the family.  One of my very first cases when I started practicing, I represented a guy who'd given his wife an engagement ring that was his mom's, grandmothers, great-grandmother's, etc.  In the divorce, he wanted it back.  NJ law says wife keeps it, heirloom & history be damned.  This particular wife refused to return it out of the "kindness of her heart" and he was devastated.  It was really bad.

I've been telling my friends ever since... if you've got an heirloom engagement ring send it down the female line!  It actually happened that way with some friends of mine.  When he proposed, she had her grandmother's engagement ring to wear.  So he got her a necklace instead.

MikesAngie

Until they are married the ring is technically his (if he bought it), engagement rings are an outward sign of a contract made between two people who intend to marry. 

The presenter of the ring, the person proposing marriage intiates the contract and the acceptee agrees to enter into the contract with the finalization of the contract being a legal and binding marriage.  Until that time the ring is "on loan" once the pair are married then it becomes the wearers property.

Since the contract was broken the ring goes back to the presenter.