Religion and culture.

Calypso1977

i think that perhaps he is not completely sold on being agnostic.  could be the catholic guilt coming out, and many times you see folks who have been in this situation return to the church later because of the fact that they have children or perhaps they were in some sort of rebellious period when they stated they were agnostic.

im catholic, and there have been periods in my life when i've struggled with certain aspects.  but as others have said, i couldnt imagine attending another church and converting to that church's faith.

i really think that no matter what you are, its important to be on teh same page as your mate when it comes to matters of religion.  i personally could not marry someone who didnt share my same beliefs in that area.

Celles

Jasmineh, I think if my FI were to post on this thread, he'd say exactly what you just did, right down to raising our children with Catholic values because they have -- well, value! -- independent of the faith.

jasmineh7777

FI and I have had a fair number of talks about this, both in private and in our pre-marital counseling.
For me, it is very important that he support me in whatever I believe. My religion in no way negatively effects him. Just as he doesn't totally understand my beliefs, I have a hard time understanding the perspective of their being nothing-no afterlife, nothing. Actually, the thought freaks me out. He may also have a hard time with your Agnosticism.

emilykathleen511

I would like to chime in here too, just because I have had many a web discussions and irl discussions about religion (it is an interest of mine).

First, I want to point out some definitions:

agnostic= to not know

gnostic= to know

atheist= to lack a belief in a god or gods

theist= to believe in a god or gods

Therefore, most people who say they are agnostic, and most people who say they are atheists are actually agnostic atheists. That just means that you lack a belief in a god or gods and that you are not certain if a god or gods exist. Most theists, on the other hand, are gnostic theists. They KNOW that there is a god, no question. Rarer still are agnostic theists and gnostic atheists. But they are out there. An agnostic theist would believe in god, but still be unsure of the god's existence. A gnostic atheist would KNOW there is not a god or gods out there.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the words agnostic and gnostic do not refer at all to religious beliefs unless you pair them with another term that does.

To the issue at hand:

I whole-heartedly believe that there is culture associated with all religions. Take Europe, especially the Scandinavian countries...almost everyone there does NOT believe in god; however, if you look at the religion part of their national statistics in any of those countries, I bet it would say something like "95% Lutheran." The reason is for the ceremonial and cultural part of the religion. People get married in the church, have funerals in the church, and make friends through the church. It has huge social meaning. One trend seen here in the U.S. is that atheists do less community service and donate to charities less. This same trend does not hold for atheists in Europe. Why is this? It comes down to culture. Most charitable giving and community service in the U.S. tends to be through churches. Atheists for the most part don't belong to churches, or if they do, they are secretly atheist, for fear of their family finding out, so it would be reported statistically under a religion. Therefore, atheists do less community service, statistically. In Europe, atheists ARE largely members of the church, and no difference is seen in the level of community service between atheists and theists.

Anyway, long story short, I think your FI is definitely understandable in his search for that sense of community he feels with the church. I would suggest trying to find some other activity to replace church with, but it seems that he associates it with his family, so it probably wouldn't hold the same meaning. Anyway, you said you were trying to understand, so maybe this may help a bit? Or maybe I just rambled a lot. Oh well.

danieliza1127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_religion-culture?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:642a2267-aaff-47f6-a067-b61066041d14Post:82ba67ee-6dcf-455b-8db9-c4a044b40d47">Re: Religion and culture.</a>:
[QUOTE]I'll admit that I'm not accepting as I should be, Dani, and there's a lot of wisdom in your words.  I've reread your post three times and am trying to take the advice -- and the chastisement! -- to heart.  We both need to change in order to move past this, and I am notoriously resistant to change... so, thank you.  I definitely needed to hear that. FWIW, I don't feel that we have to agree, but I do want to understand.  His beliefs and behavior are so contradictory to me that I have a hard time respecting them.  I feel I need to reconcile them in some way in order to accept them -- and, therefore, him.  Last night, I was so frustrated that I lay in bed wondering how I can spend the rest of my life with someone I just don't get.  I love him, but sometimes I don't understand him at all. 
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

Please know that I wasn't trying to be harsh.  :)

I hope my advice helped.  It sounds like you need to learn that you can respect someone's beliefs even if they differ from yours or don't quite make 100% sense to you.  I'm sorry it's making you doubt spending your life with him, but better to examine this stuff now than after you're married or when you have a child.

shellydiane820

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_religion-culture?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:642a2267-aaff-47f6-a067-b61066041d14Post:8a276e59-7ffa-4938-8e07-462be356c80f">Re: Religion and culture.</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm going to go back and read your whole post, but I just wanted to jump in and say that I DO think there's a Catholic culture, even if some Catholics don't realize it. I was raised Presbyterian, but I went to a Catholic high school in an area with a large Catholic population. So I know some ins and outs. FI was raised Catholic (his mother converted to Catholicism to marry his father - and she goes to mass every Sunday). FI was very religious earlier in life - even throughout grad school he was involved in his campus's Catholic organization, doing volunteer work through them. Since then, he's fallen off the wagon so to speak. We're not having a Catholic wedding (thankfully). But he still wants to raise our children Catholic (I'm against this). From my experience, Catholics aren't really interested in other religions. They're either super Catholic, nominally Catholic or agnostic. I'm not sure I've ever met a Catholic who has decided to become a Methodist, for example. MAYBE Episcopalian, since it's similar. (That's something I might be okay with.)
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

My friend's family went from Catholic church to Methodist.  She was about 10 when her parents made the decision.

SaraAndrew2010

I can see how your FI feels.  I was raised Catholic (and attended 14 years of Catholic schools), went through a number of years where I fell away from the church and was agnostic/atheist, then became recommitted to Catholicism. 

Even when I considered myself an atheist, I still found myself mentally identifying as Catholic.  I didn't call myself Catholic, but felt that Catholicism was a big part of my upbringing and family tradition.  For instance, every baby in my family for the last 100 years has been baptised in the same christening gown that was first worn by my great-aunt. 

DavidandAmyClark

My FI is Catholic -he goes to church when his mom insists upon it--Christmans and Easter mainly.  And my FI's mother issues aside. His family is Irish Catholic.  There is culture to being Catholic. I was raised prodestant and since I do not identify any longer with my old church I am no longer a baptist. 
My FI feels the same way about religion as I do- there is a difference in between believing in god and believing in church. 
However, I have concerns about marrying into a Catholic family, our wedding is not a religious ceremony but now that we are getting married I will be expected to somewhat identify with my new Catholic family.  
I guess what I am trying to say is that being Catholic is just as much a cultural identity for a lot of people just like being Jew is cultural in addition to being religious.  I think this because I see it in the Jewish and Catholic families to which I am closely connected.  
Ditto to all of you and I am also taking my own advice, you may not need to understand where your FI is coming from, but I think when it comes to matters affecting you, your marraige and your kiddos, as a couple you should have clear and established expectations, which may be a compromise based on something you don't understand.  

katiewhompus

Dh identifies himself as a non-practicing Catholic. He definitely believes in God and that Jesus was the Son of God, but has major issues with the human portions of the church. For instance he doesn't believe that gay's are abominations or that I am going to hell.
We both believe in an afterlife and that there are deities/spirits/things out there that we cannot fully comprehend and that we pray to when things get rough.
We also have had the baptistm talk many times, and will probably have it many more. We are both on a similar page but when you throw in his family who are practicing Catholic it gets harrier.