STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation

QueerFemme

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:ffd7c0e2-dea6-409d-ac07-f79420a1d1ee">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : As a Catholic, I actually agree with this post.  As someone who has family and friends who are in same sex relationships (some have married legally, some cannot and have had a wedding to celebrate their love), I can appreciate the reactions of others in response to this post. Marriage is one word that has different implications for different couples.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Guess what ?   Same sex marriages that are legal in various states actually are for the most part, pretty meaningless on the legal front since none of them are recognized state to state or recognized by the federal government.  MARRIAGE is a word that ONLY has different implications for those of us who CAN"T get legally married in the eyes of the federal government. 

OP was able to get MARRIED legally, and now she can get MARRIED in the eys of the church. But, her MARRIAGE at the court house is no less legal or official.  She doesn't ever have to go through this marriage "blessing" for her marriage to be valid. She WANTS to do it, so her marriage is recognized under the faith she chooses to practice.  Religion does not have the corner on the marriage market.</div>

QueerFemme

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:1999b42c-9adb-4ffd-8b35-6393fbd0e2cd">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : You're right - the civil marriage according to the state for this couple is in no way going to change.  If a Catholic is married outside of the Church, he/she is no longer in communion with the Church and cannot receive the Eucharist.  I hope you can appreciate that, for Catholics, this is a big deal.  Please understand that I can completly appreciate why you are deeply offended by the statements about faith and marriage.  I am honestly just trying to show some understanding and compassion. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

I certainly support any catholic person's desire to have their marriage blessed by their church.  I never said I didn't.  What I said all along, is that having a church blessing is not a wedding re-do.  Nothing in my statements indicate that I don't understand what a big deal it is for a person of faith to want to be recognized by the church.

The point is, you "agreeing" with the post saying that having a church ceremony is MORE of a reason to celebrate than having any other type of wedding is offensive and honestly, homophobic as well as reeks of religious intolerance. By saying (or agreeing) that a catholic ceremony is really the only valid reason to celebrate, and anyone else doesn't really have much reason to bother celebration their wedding or marriage. 

I hope you don't tell your same-sex or non-catholic friends that can't or don't want to get married by the catholic church that their weddings weren't really valid enough to really celebrate.  Actually, I hope you do tell them that.</div>

Simply Fated

"From talking to my friends who are in samesex relationships, I can appreciate your statement here and am confident they share your emotions." But you DON'T share their emotions is what you're saying here.

QueerFemme

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:a02c65d4-921b-4aa5-87b2-9ede85a82eaa">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Actually, the author of that post said she isn't Catholic.  So, I don't think that person would find a Catholic marraige to be "better" than anyone else's.  I hope you take a moment to read what I said in response to Lia; I think it will clarify my intent as it relates to your comments. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

I did take the time to read it, and I also took the time to re-read the other poster's post about it being waaaayyyyyyyy more of a reason to celebrate, which is the post you agreed with.

I get that it was important for you, <strong>personally</strong>, to have an celebrate your catholic wedding.  The point still is, that is not wayyyyyyyyyyy more of a reason to celebrate than any other wedding, and you agreed with that.

I think Stage said this earlier... but, if all of the catholics out there think its so much more important to get blessed by the church than the actual LEGAL part of the marriage, then maybe they should just have a church blessing, and skip the legal part all together.  Don't take any of the federal or legal benefits that marriage gives you, and just be happy that your God is happy for you.</div>

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:dacc6422-2e0f-4ac1-b0e4-c2f88e42042f">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : We were actually required to present our marriage license from the county courthouse to the church before we could get married.  So, as our church and our government are set up, the scenario you present is not viable. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Oh, you mean, it's not actually just the blessing part that matters to the catholic church?  SHOCKING!

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:6a2f6bee-563d-4f08-af4a-38ab51b81a93">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Correct.  If I was forced to choose between a marriage recognized by the government or a marriage recognized by the Church, I would prefer the marriage recognized by the Church. <strong> I do recognize that, since I am straight, I have never had to deal with the challenges that my LGBT friends fight for recognition of their marriagesl. </strong>
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]
Just put your feet in their shoes. What if you couldn't get married legally or religiously, for that matter? Obviously you care about the legal aspect of your marriage at least a little because you did get married legally.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:78168753-725a-48fc-9687-0232d6222a7c">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : It's the sacrament, actually. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Actually, it's not the sacrament.  It's the legal right to be married.  If the legal part didn't matter to the church, they wouldn't require you to show your LEGAL marriage license. They would just have your ceremony and you would be married under god's laws. 

So, what you are actually saying, is in order for you to even BE married in the church's eyes, you have to be licensed to be married under the law. 

And I second Stage's post.  You would really give up the right to be legally married if the church said so?

Ok, so, you would be giving up your right to make any medical decisions on your husband's behalf (as Stage mentioned) as well as a sampling of just a few of the following rights:

medical benefits
inheritance rights
immigration rights (God bless the fact that you fell in love with someone who is a citizen of the same country as you)
Adoption rights
Parental rights (hopefully, you'll never get divorced, but if you did, at least you would still have legal visitation/custody to your children!)
Social security/death benefits
military benefits
legal protection against discrimination
rights under the FMLA to take care of a sick or dying spouse
the right to not be compelled to testify against your spouse in court.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:207a478e-1cfd-4eb6-a3a8-499681a06af1">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : To be honest, my aunt's partner has been involved with her medical decisions as she battles cancer.  To the best of my knowledge, if (God forbid), my aunt is morbidly ill with her cancer, she has designataed her partner to make those decisions for her.  My aunt's partner is a woman and I don't think the hospitals or attorneys have had issues with that.   I am not trying to claim that you are lying; I just have not heard from my aunt & her partner that this is an issue.  (and to be clear, they live in a state that does not recognize same-sex marriages). 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Your aunt is VERY lucky that she doesn't have any family members challenging her partner's access to her and medical decisions.  In these cases, even with a medical power of attorney, blood relatives OFTEN win a challenge.

Also, it does depend on the state and the hospital.  I live in the bay area, most of the time, I don't have any issues with access to my partner.  But, when my partner was recently ill, we went to the doctor and we went into the exam room together to talk to the doctor.  This wasn't a doctor we have a regular relationship with, and I was asked to leave the room because I was "not a blood relative nor a legal spouse".  This is in the BAY area. The gayest city in the country.  I have ZERO legal protection and if the doc had persisted, I would have had to leave.  It was only because I made a HUGE fuss and stuck my wedding ring in his face and broke out my ID to show that we both have the same last name and started getting loud that the doc backed off.

So,  tell me the last time you had to deal with anything like that?

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:207a478e-1cfd-4eb6-a3a8-499681a06af1">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : To be honest, my aunt's partner has been involved with her medical decisions as she battles cancer.  To the best of my knowledge, if (God forbid), my aunt is morbidly ill with her cancer, she has designataed her partner to make those decisions for her.  My aunt's partner is a woman and I don't think the hospitals or attorneys have had issues with that.   I am not trying to claim that you are lying; I just have not heard from my aunt & her partner that this is an issue.  (and to be clear, they live in a state that does not recognize same-sex marriages). 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

You don't see anything wrong with the fact that she had to have a legal document drawn up and notarized for this when if she were able to marry, it wouldn't be necessary?  As was said before, would you have forgone all of the rights and priviledges automatically granted by the government when you married to have only the sacrament perfomed without the legal aspect of it and then go have a dozen legal documents <em><u>that can be legally challenged at any point by a recognized immediate member</u></em> of your family drawn up to grant you the "but it's just the same" rights?

Peledreamsofrain

In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation:[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation:In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation: So, you would give up the right to sit next to your husband while he lay dying and pray with him, or to be the one who decides whether or not they turn off the life support in order to please God or the Church? I say this, because people downplay the legal protections of marriage on a daily basis as "tax breaks" when really there is SO much more that we take for granted every day. Believe me, I'd give up joint filing in a heart beat if it conflicted with my religion, but faced with the choice above, not so much.Posted by StageManager14To be honest, my aunt's partner has been involved with her medical decisions as she battles cancer.nbsp; To the best of my knowledge, if God forbid, my aunt is morbidly ill with her cancer, she has designataed her partner to make those decisions for her.nbsp; My aunt's partner is a woman and I don't think the hospitals or attorneys have had issues with that.nbsp;nbsp; I am not trying to claim that you are lying; I just have not heard from my aunt amp; her partner that this is an issue.nbsp; and to be clear, they live in a state that does not recognize samesex marriages.nbsp; Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

No, instead of having that right naturally, they had to pay an attorney what may be to some a prohibative amount of money to secure that right. All the while praying she didn't die before it was complete, and that a family member didn't step in and prevent it all out of spite and hate. That sounds totally fair.

aif

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:60971e34-5b85-419e-8329-dcae16c37fb8">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation: No, instead of having that right naturally, <strong>they had to pay an attorney what may be to some a prohibative amount of money to secure that right.</strong> All the while praying she didn't die before it was complete, and that a family member didn't step in and prevent it all out of spite and hate. That sounds totally fair. aif
Posted by Peledreamsofrain[/QUOTE]

and it is still not a secured right.  It can be challenged and is challenged A LOT.  A legal marriage cannot be challenged in these situations.

Simply Fated

Didn't they pass a law where if a hospital recieves federal funding, homosexuals in civil unions can not be denied hospital visitation rights?
I know Obama was at least trying to pass it and I remember talk of Romney wanting to overturn it. But I'm unclear where it stands now, which is frustrating. Google is failing me and I'm having a hard time trying to find a more recent article that isn't an oped.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:5836d2c2-cf9a-44d1-9670-dee051089b0b">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : What I compared it to was having to abstain from sex. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Having to abstain from sex is the same as me not being able to keep my partner on life support in the event of an accident and a family challenge (which, is pretty likely in our case?

Simply Fated

Slightly off-topic, but do you mean you're using the rhythm method so you don't get pregnant before you're ready to have a kid?

Calypso1977

Slightly off-topic, but do you mean you're using the rhythm method so you don't get pregnant before you're ready to have a kid?

NFP is NOT the rhythm method.  at all.  completely different.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:d4520eb8-5135-4149-ae26-38b1651d1076">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]Slightly off-topic, but do you mean you're using the rhythm method so you don't get pregnant before you're ready to have a kid? NFP is NOT the rhythm method.  at all.  completely different.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
Are you serious?

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:945328d9-6d89-4f8e-a704-a65d2bb20b34">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]Please re-read, ladies.  I pray that I would have the strength to respect the teachings of my faith.  I know that there will be challenges in our marriage that will require us to sacrifice our desires so that we can remain in communion with Christ through the Church.  We are not practicing birth control and know that there will be times where we are not ready to welcome a child into the world.  During those itmes we know that we'll have to abstain from sex while I'm fertile.  If your hypothetical situation is true, I pray that I have the clarity of thought and discernment to see where God is in this teaching.  I would pray that I would find the strength to respect God and what I believe He is asking me (and my husband) to do.  If there is something that I want to do, but my faith dictates I can't, I hope that I can honestly seek God's will and discern what to do.  I know there will be difficult decisions and times where I won't be able to do what I want to do.  I really hope I have the strength and humility to seek what God wants for me.  Let me try a different analogy.  <strong>Let's say that I met (now) DH a year ago and we started dating.  Let's say (although not true) that he had been married and divorced.  Let's say he sought an annulment but it was not granted.  I could not marry him in the Catholic Church.  My love for Christ in the Eucharist would actually "win" over my feelings for him.  I would not and could not marry a man outside of the Church. 
</strong>Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Wow.  So you love an institution more than your husband.  That is truly amazing to me.  So what would your meeting have been?  A test of your faith?  Do you really think God would be that cruel?

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:c5612da6-66ee-4db4-8efa-01da6918afa7">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation: It's not a matter of an institution, but my faith in Christ. I believe in the true presence in the Eucharist and would not want to separate myself from that by marrying outside the church. God has tested His people many times in Scripture, and it's not how you make it to sound. Following God's will is a difficult concept to grasp, and it requires prayer and discernment. It's not usually a case of God's cruelty, but our stubbornness to submit to His will for us.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

You can have faith in Christ and follow what He taught without being a slave to the rules of the church.  They are not one in the same.

Have you ever had to live without your husband being in your life after you had already fallen in love?  Ever?  DH and I broke up for a few years and they were the most miserable years of our lives.  If you ever had to do this, I don't think you would be so dogmatic in your beliefs.  And I don't think you would think of it as anything less than cruel to have that kind of love and happiness brought into your life just to have some stupid manmade rule keep you apart.

Peledreamsofrain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:244466f1-8a84-416f-85b3-06d1e67193be">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Well, I'm glad you got through it.  Really.  We all obviously have our different ways to life. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

<div>I am deeply grateful for that fact on a daily basis.  </div><div>
</div><div>If I was required to  ignore the suffering of families, the plights of others, and turn my back on a deeply unfair treatment of an entire group of people simply because another human within my religion insisted it was right, I wouldn't be able to stand it.</div><div>
</div><div>This is why I'm agnostic.  Any deity with the grace and beauty to create the universe could not possibly be so small and petty.  Nor would they lack the amount of love necessary to equally enfold all of those within his/her/it's sight. </div><div>
</div><div>I will cry with joy on the day this nation finally shakes off it's shackles of hate, and allows it's citizens equality. We've done it once with race, and we can do it again.  We are stronger as a whole than even the most entrenched discriminations.  That's our strength as a country.  </div>

Chloeagh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:747e8e29-b045-42dd-b96d-0a98d7ca2c4e">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Are you serious?
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]
Yes, she is. NFP has been proven in secular studies to be more than 99% accurate. It has been gaining a lot of popularity in the secular community under the name Fertility Awareness Method (FAM).

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:b308eaca-11b8-4995-bb68-544ba2f6e43d">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Yes, she is. NFP has been proven in secular studies to be more than 99% accurate. It has been gaining a lot of popularity in the secular community under the name Fertility Awareness Method (FAM).
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying you are wrong but I remember the lay teacher at my highschool who taught NFP insisting that it works because she only accidentally got pregnant once.  The nuns who taught us quietly told us to double down on condoms and the pill if we were going to unwisely be sexually active at such young ages.  They had seen too many lives ruined by unplanned pregnancy.  They cared more about keeping their charges on a path to a successful future than they did rules written by celibate men.

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:244466f1-8a84-416f-85b3-06d1e67193be">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Well, I'm glad you got through it.  Really.  We all obviously have our different ways to life. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

All I am trying to say is that is really easy to say you would make certain choices when the truth is you don't have a freakin clue what choice you would actually make when faced with a situation.  So unless you have actually faced down a choice, don't use it as an example for how you would act.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:b308eaca-11b8-4995-bb68-544ba2f6e43d">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : Yes, she is. NFP has been proven in secular studies to be more than 99% accurate. It has been gaining a lot of popularity in the secular community under the name Fertility Awareness Method (FAM).
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]
We're not having the same conversation. I'm over here talking about one thing... and you're over there talking about something else.

Chloeagh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:c8a44a0d-75c4-4e2c-811e-e3c7078f3d8e">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : We're not having the same conversation. I'm over here talking about one thing... and you're over there talking about something else.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]
My mistake. Someone said NFP is not the rhythm method and you said, "Are you serious?" I assumed you did not believe her, as that is often the case regarding this topic. What were you referring to then?

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:d15c82fd-c953-482d-9755-32840e642ad3">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : My mistake. Someone said NFP is not the rhythm method and you said, "Are you serious?" I assumed you did not believe her, as that is often the case regarding this topic. What were you referring to then?
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]
I'm so lost. I don't think the person who originally responded to me had read what I had actually asked in conjunction to what the OP said.


The OP said that she abstains from sex during certain times so she won't get pregnant. I asked if she was using the rhythm method, which is when couples plan their sex around the woman's menstrual cycle. If they want to have a child, they have sex when the woman is most fertile. If they don't want to have a child, they wait until she isn't fertile. Blah blah, I'm sure you learned all this is sex ed, lol.
Anyway, she said she wasn't, that she used another method where she checks her cervical mucus, instead of just the menstruation cycle, to track her fertility.
The Roman Catholic Church doesn't consider using just the menstrual cycle sufficient enough. And that's fine. However, it is still a form recognized by seculur (and some Non-Catholic?) people.

Chloeagh

The rhythm method uses a calendar. You guess when you are fertile based on previous menstrual cycles and have sex or not. This, of course, is not effective at all as cycles vary and not everyone ovulates at the exact same time.

However, there is a scientific method called Natural Family Planning, or Fertility Awareness Method in the secular world, that is extremely effective when used correctly. It looks at a woman's fertility signs and the individual woman is able to determine her chances of becoming pregnant at that point in time. You do not plan around when you last received your period, but rather when you ovulate (actually, not predicted). There is a secular book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility (http://www.tcoyf.com/) that explains this very well.

Sorry if I didn't explain that very well. It's late. Maybe Kristan or someone else can do a better job.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:6b59f4ea-a15f-4ef1-8cf2-72f977f37335">Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]The rhythm method uses a calendar. You guess when you are fertile based on previous menstrual cycles and have sex or not. This, of course, is not effective at all as cycles vary and not everyone ovulates at the exact same time. However, there is a scientific method called Natural Family Planning, or Fertility Awareness Method in the secular world, that is extremely effective when used correctly. It looks at a woman's fertility signs and the individual woman is able to determine her chances of becoming pregnant at that point in time. You do not plan around when you last received your period, but rather when you ovulate (actually, not predicted). There is a secular book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility ( <a href="http://www.tcoyf.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tcoyf.com/</a> ) that explains this very well. Sorry if I didn't explain that very well. It's late. Maybe Kristan or someone else can do a better job.
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]
This is why I feel like we're having different conversations. I'm going to break this down.


<strong>The rhythm method uses a calendar. You guess when you are fertile based on previous menstrual cycles and have sex or not. This, of course, is not effective at all as cycles vary </strong>
Of course it uses a calendar. How else would you track your menstrual cycle? o.0
It's not a random guess, so much an a theory or assumption. If you always get your period on the fourth Friday of every month, it's pretty safe to say that it's not a <em>guess</em> when you'll get your period. We're not throwing darts at a calendar here. Now, of course not everyone's cycles are regular, and the rhythm method actually does account for that. However, it is a terrible method because not everyone follows it properly AND menstrual cycles can vary for, well, various reasons.

<strong>and not everyone ovulates at the exact same time.</strong>
What does anyone else's cycle have to do with it? o.0 I would hope you're using your own calendar when figuring out when your next period will come and not just asking a friend when her's is due.

<strong>However, there is a scientific method called Natural Family Planning, or Fertility Awareness Method in the secular world, that is extremely effective when used correctly.</strong>
Natural Family Planning isn't the name of the scientific method. There are methods within the natural family planning process. You are very aware that in the secular world the rhythm method is an accepted form of Natural Family Planning, correct? It's not a <em>good</em> method, but it's a method.
Creighton Model is another method. That's what OP uses. There are a few of them.

It's also important to note that most doctors suggest also checking for vaginal discharge, body temperature, etc when using the rhythm method.

ridedatbike

In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation:In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation:In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : It's the sacrament, actually.nbsp;Posted by TXKristanActually, it's not the sacrament.nbsp; It's the legal right to be married.nbsp; If the legal part didn't matter to the church, they wouldn't require you to show your LEGAL marriage license. They would just have your ceremony and you would be married under god's laws.nbsp; So, what you are actually saying, isnbsp;in order for you to even BE married in the church's eyes, you have to be licensed to be married under the law.nbsp; And I second Stage's post.nbsp; You would really give up the right to be legally married if the church said so?Ok, so, you would be giving up your right to make any medical decisions on your husband's behalf as Stage mentioned as well as a sampling of just a few of the following rights:medical benefitsinheritance rightsimmigration rights God bless the fact thatnbsp;you fell innbsp;love with someone who is a citizen of the same country as youAdoption rightsParental rights hopefully, you'll never get divorced, but if you did, at least you would still have legal visitation/custody to your children!Social security/death benefitsmilitary benefitslegal protection against discrimination rights under the FMLA to take care of a sick or dying spousethe right to not be compelled to. testify against your spouse in court. Posted by cmgilpin Minor point but I don't think parental rights are dependant on marriage. If you can prove you're biologically a child's parent and file for rights you get them. You could still get visitation and what not without any marital rights.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_stds-and-invitations-for-catholic-convalidation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:69d5e8e0-41c6-470f-ab43-2ff0931870e6Post:f967ef33-1d6b-4280-bf33-de0d1f8af450">Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation:In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation:In Response to Re: STDs and Invitations for Catholic Convalidation : It's the sacrament, actually.nbsp;Posted by TXKristanActually, it's not the sacrament.nbsp; It's the legal right to be married.nbsp; If the legal part didn't matter to the church, they wouldn't require you to show your LEGAL marriage license. They would just have your ceremony and you would be married under god's laws.nbsp; So, what you are actually saying, isnbsp;in order for you to even BE married in the church's eyes, you have to be licensed to be married under the law.nbsp; And I second Stage's post.nbsp; You would really give up the right to be legally married if the church said so?Ok, so, you would be giving up your right to make any medical decisions on your husband's behalf as Stage mentioned as well as a sampling of just a few of the following rights:medical benefitsinheritance rightsimmigration rights God bless the fact thatnbsp;you fell innbsp;love with someone who is a citizen of the same country as youA<strong>doption rightsParental rights hopefully, you'll never get divorced, but if you did, at least you would still have legal visitation/custody to your children!</strong>Social security/death benefitsmilitary benefitslegal protection against discrimination rights under the FMLA to take care of a sick or dying spousethe right to not be compelled to. testify against your spouse in court. Posted by cmgilpin <strong> Minor point but I don't think parental rights are dependant on marriage. If you can prove you're biologically a child's parent and file for rights you get them. You could still get visitation and what not without any marital rights.</strong>
Posted by ridedatbike[/QUOTE]
You do know that in <em>some cases</em> only one <strong>partner</strong> can biologically be a parent, right?

Calypso1977

the rhythm method assumes all cycles are 28 days long, which we all know is not the case.  that is why the rhythom method is a terrible and ineffective method because it assumes a cycle length adn therefore assumes ovulation on a certain date based on 28 days.  thats why it has a high failure rate.

NFP loosely refers to not using artificial BC.  it is practiced in many forms (creighton, sympto-thermal, billings, etc.).  all rely on methods for tracking that do not assume a 28 day cycle and ovulation on the same day every month.

as with ANY method of BC its success/failure rate is only as good/bad as the user.  if you are sloppy and forget to track you might get pregnant when you dont want to, just as if you are sloppy and forget your pill or are lazy and dont put on a condom.