This makes me ragey.

Ali092011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:df426ed4-1172-4521-8748-a49e8fccd695">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think that all of the coddling of students really just sends the message that they are too incompetent to do the work. People think it's "nice" to not take off points for late assignments, grade in different colored ink, make sure no student receives lower than a fifty percent even if they earned a zero, etc. But really, the message it sends to children is unkind: "We don't really believe you can succeed on your own."  Children recognize and meet low expectations accordingly. 
Posted by starrynight84[/QUOTE]

I see what you mean, but I don't think it's so much that as it is the "we don't want to make anyone feel bad" mentality. Like PPs said before, it's about cultivating self-esteem in kids and not allowing them to feel like they're bad at something. I am all for helping kids learn to take pride in their accomplishments, but they have to accomplish something to be proud of first!

I remember when I was doing my student teaching, I heard so many different excuses it was sickening. We read Pride and Prejudice with my Honors students as my first book of the year. I assigned the first four chapters and a journal entry of their initial impressions of the book over a weekend, and told them there would be a factual quiz on the plot/characters on Monday. Well, Monday morning, one of my students comes to me and says that he didn't understand the book at all. The way it was written might as well have been Greek to him. He wanted to know if he could have some extra time to re-read the chapters and try to understand it before taking the quiz.

Luckily, my cooperating teacher fully supported me when I said absolutely not, the student would take the quiz at the same time as all of the other students, but it was then that I realized how much things had changed in the handful of years since I'd graduated high school. This was even an Honors class, and some of the students didn't think they needed to bother trying to comprehend the book they were reading. As an English teacher, I don't <em>advocate</em> Cliffs Notes, but come on. They are widely available and can be useful when you're reading a difficult text. Their use was rampant when I was in school, not just by some lazy kids who didn't want to do the reading, but also by people who struggled through a certain book and used it to keep characters and events straight in their heads. The fact that this kid couldn't even have been bothered to consult Cliffs Notes so that he could at least pass a factual quiz spoke volumes to me about how much he and other kids have been coddled by teachers, parents, and the system in general.

MrsL2014

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:d6e2cda9-006e-4098-bfde-11f9cb7eee8d">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]There are poor teachers in every subject who will just give an A.  That doesn't mean that the entire field is not rigorous nor demanding.  We have an amazing culinary program at our school.  The students cook, serve, and essentially run a restuarant....no easy A's there either. Want to bash another subject?
Posted by HockeyFan4[/QUOTE]

I really am not trying to bash school subjects. Like I said, i have taken art class and cooking class. I love the classes, I love the teachers, and I do work hard for my grade in the class. But when students sign up for the class expecting an A it is upsetting. Trust me I am not trying to say anything about my art or cooking teacher. I am graduated and my cooking teacher and I have a very close relationship. Im not meaning it about the teachers, I am meaning it about the students, some students are lazy and only take the classes hoping to get an A for not doing anything.

HockeyFan4

and what I am saying is...if a student has a preconceived notion that a class is an easy A, it doesn't mean it is..perhaps you had crappy teachers that handed them out....

your original post said you were mad that your GPA was weighted the same as students who took classes in different subjects than you did, such as art and cooking.  Unless those were bad teachers, who just handed out A's, you had no reason to be upset with the rankings in your school. 

2012FutureMrsB

In response to the original post, I am a teacher and I'm totally against giving out 50%'s. It's ridiculous. It's like going for a job evaluation and you don't show up, so you get a 50% instead of 0%. Dumb.

I'm so glad my district does not require this. We are allowed to give out 0% and I def give them out! But I also have a late policy. Students are allowed to turn in late work, but it's 5% off per school day. After 8 days, I just take off an automatic 40%, so it's still a 60% no matter if they turn it in 2 months late. Of course, if they turn it in with partial completion, they lose even more points for an incomplete. The point is, though, students have absolutely no excuse for not turning in work! If they don't turn it in, it stays a zero. That's what they deserve.


(Edited for clarity)

wadingmoose

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:df426ed4-1172-4521-8748-a49e8fccd695">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think that all of the coddling of students really just sends the message that they are too incompetent to do the work. People think it's "nice" to not take off points for late assignments, grade in different colored ink, make sure no student receives lower than a fifty percent even if they earned a zero, etc. But really, the message it sends to children is unkind: "We don't really believe you can succeed on your own."  Children recognize and meet low expectations accordingly. 
Posted by starrynight84[/QUOTE]

Indeed.  Go Mediocrity!

rhodeisland22

My students are offered the opportunity to resubmit written work. It's very common among the core teachers here. It's an opportunity to respond, reflect and improve their writing. Some students resubmit, although many do not. I feel that it helps the students prepare to pass the MCAS and graduate high school.

starrynight84

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:f47275b5-90c4-432a-ba26-e4a1d3b3df31">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : <strong>I see what you mean, but I don't think it's so much that as it is the "we don't want to make anyone feel bad" mentality.</strong> Like PPs said before, it's about cultivating self-esteem in kids and not allowing them to feel like they're bad at something.<strong> I am all for helping kids learn to take pride in their accomplishments, but they have to accomplish something to be proud of first!</strong> I remember when I was doing my student teaching, I heard so many different excuses it was sickening. We read Pride and Prejudice with my Honors students as my first book of the year. I assigned the first four chapters and a journal entry of their initial impressions of the book over a weekend, and told them there would be a factual quiz on the plot/characters on Monday. Well, Monday morning, one of my students comes to me and says that he didn't understand the book at all. The way it was written might as well have been Greek to him. He wanted to know if he could have some extra time to re-read the chapters and try to understand it before taking the quiz. Luckily, my cooperating teacher fully supported me when I said absolutely not, the student would take the quiz at the same time as all of the other students, but it was then that I realized how much things had changed in the handful of years since I'd graduated high school. This was even an Honors class, and some of the students didn't think they needed to bother trying to comprehend the book they were reading. As an English teacher, I don't advocate Cliffs Notes, but come on. They are widely available and can be useful when you're reading a difficult text. Their use was rampant when I was in school, not just by some lazy kids who didn't want to do the reading, but also by people who struggled through a certain book and used it to keep characters and events straight in their heads. The fact that this kid couldn't even have been bothered to consult Cliffs Notes so that he could at least pass a factual quiz spoke volumes to me about how much he and other kids have been coddled by teachers, parents, and the system in general.
Posted by Ali092011[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>BBM </div><div>
</div><div>1.I agree that adults <strong>think</strong> think they are helping children's self-esteem. But in reality, whether or not it's intentional, the underlying message being sent is that the child won't and can't succeed. 
</div><div>
</div><div>Children aren't stupid. They recognize empty praise. And they know that an X through an answer means it's wrong, regardless of whether it was written in red or green.</div><div>
</div><div>2. ITA </div>

MrsL2014

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:1c0b1573-12bd-4c8a-9c3d-77bfffaf6db4">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]and what I am saying is...if a student has a preconceived notion that a class is an easy A, it doesn't mean it is..perhaps you had crappy teachers that handed them out.... your original post said you were mad that your GPA was weighted the same as students who took classes in different subjects than you did, such as art and cooking.  Unless those were bad teachers, who just handed out A's, you had no reason to be upset with the rankings in your school. 
Posted by HockeyFan4[/QUOTE]

That is what I am saying. The students know how to get into the classes with the crappy teachers so they get an A when I get a C on the same project doing the same thing the other student did in the class with a different teacher.

DramaGeek

Our school is one that has gone to proficiency based grading.  We don't give lower than 50%, but we also don't grade with numbers/percents anymore.  Our entire grading is done with letters.  So you get an A, B, C, D, or F (or a +/- version of the letter) on everything, and that's what goes into the gradebook.  If you earn 59% or less on an assigment or test, it goes into the gradebook as an F - as it should.

Any missing assignments or tests go in as an N.  That stands for "No Evidence," or, in our students' words, "Not Done."  It is counted like an F but shows that the student didn't do it at all instead of an F, which shows that the student did it but failed.

We also allow students to retake tests/quizzes.  However, they must do the additional work to show that they've taken time to learn the material.  They also must do the retake on their own time, which is a big deal in middle school when you can't drive :-P

We still have kids that fail, for sure.  I've found, though, that the new grading policy did better reflect the abilities of the students, interestingly enough.

rsanna

There is on incident I remember in elementary school that I am extremely thankful for.  My 4th grade class (me included) did absolutely horrible on a math test and all but like 3 people had to retake it.  I remember not only the embarrassment of not passing it (I was usually a smart kid) and having to retake but also to ask my brother to let me ride with him to school so I could get their early and get extra help. 

I also remember in high school all of the teachers would say to at least hand stuff in because even a failing grade is better than a zero and they would give you zeros.  I still think they fluffed it up a bit and I know not a lot of kids tried and it was behavioral.  Some of the teachers, even the older and more experienced ones, couldn't control the class and this was a small school and classes of 20 kids.  My english teacher in high school always continued to sit two boys next to each other (she did it alphabetically) even though she knew, and the whole class knew and asked her not to sit them together because all they did was joke around and disrupt the class.  But she continued to do it.

I don't want to encourage a special snowflake but the big high school closest to mine offered an alternative for kids that had special circumstance like pregnancy and stuff where they would go to school until noon and they had to have a job.  I feel like that is something that can be really helpful because it allows kids in, what is normally a huge school, to be brought to down a smaller setting and receive more specialized attention to help with their issues and circumstances. 

Kate61487

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:f47275b5-90c4-432a-ba26-e4a1d3b3df31">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : I see what you mean, but I don't think it's so much that as it is the "we don't want to make anyone feel bad" mentality. Like PPs said before, it's about cultivating self-esteem in kids and not allowing them to feel like they're bad at something. I am all for helping kids learn to take pride in their accomplishments, but they have to accomplish something to be proud of first! I remember when I was doing my student teaching, I heard so many different excuses it was sickening. We read Pride and Prejudice with my Honors students as my first book of the year. I assigned the first four chapters and a journal entry of their initial impressions of the book over a weekend, and told them there would be a factual quiz on the plot/characters on Monday. Well, Monday morning, one of my students comes to me and says that he didn't understand the book at all. The way it was written might as well have been Greek to him. He wanted to know if he could have some extra time to re-read the chapters and try to understand it before taking the quiz. Luckily, my cooperating teacher fully supported me when I said absolutely not, the student would take the quiz at the same time as all of the other students, but it was then that I realized how much things had changed in the handful of years since I'd graduated high school. This was even an Honors class, and some of the students didn't think they needed to bother trying to comprehend the book they were reading. As an English teacher, I don't advocate Cliffs Notes, but come on. They are widely available and can be useful when you're reading a difficult text. Their use was rampant when I was in school, not just by some lazy kids who didn't want to do the reading, but also by people who struggled through a certain book and used it to keep characters and events straight in their heads. The fact that this kid couldn't even have been bothered to consult Cliffs Notes so that he could at least pass a factual quiz spoke volumes to me about how much he and other kids have been coddled by teachers, parents, and the system in general.
Posted by Ali092011[/QUOTE]

I'm just getting caught up here; but I feel like coming to you pre-emptively and saying "I don't get this, can you help me / give me some extra time" is much more responsible than going and getting the cliff notes.  That's like saying if you didn't understand the math assignment at least copy your friend's homework and turn it in on time, regardless of if you understand it.

Ali092011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:dffa8f49-b60c-4628-afe6-d3e63bfda9dc">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: This makes me ragey. : I'm just getting caught up here; but I feel like coming to you pre-emptively and saying "I don't get this, can you help me / give me some extra time" is much more responsible than going and getting the cliff notes.  That's like saying if you didn't understand the math assignment at least copy your friend's homework and turn it in on time, regardless of if you understand it.
Posted by Kate61487[/QUOTE]

I should have prefaced that example with the fact that I just plain felt that this student didn't do the reading and the "I don't get it" excuse had worked in the past. Had he come to me and said, "Can I tell you what I think I understood from the book? I had trouble deciphering it," that I would have considered as taking responsibility for his actions. But simply saying, "I really didn't understand this book. Can I take the test tomorrow instead?" just sounds like an excuse to get out of being held accountable. Based on what I had seen of the curriculum these students had been following since freshman year, I felt these junior Honors students should be able to glean <em>some</em> kind of meaning from Pride and Predjudice if they read carefully, and they all could except this one kid. You need to take notes? Fine. Start a study group? Fine. Talk through the plot with the teacher? Fine. But don't ask to not be held just as accountable as the students who read the chapters as many times as they had to in order to fully understand it.

jesslynn1012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_this-makes-me-ragey?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7590b6f1-292b-49fd-8e29-225f187755ecPost:6735dc98-2533-4a55-bf33-7acd17aefe9c">Re: This makes me ragey.</a>:
[QUOTE]The red ink thing is beyond ridiculous.  My last professor made notes on our papers in red ink, and while we teased him about how scary it was to get papers back completely smeared in red ink (granted, these were notes and thoughts, not really corrections since they were opinion papers), nobody seriously gave him shiiit about it.  If you're too emotional to deal with red ink on your paper, you need help.  Sorry.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

I had to work all day so I was "catching up" on the post, and this actually made me laugh.  I am a therapist that is very intelligent and well-adjusted.  I rarely saw red ink on my work, but some teachers like to put check marks to show that they read the answer and then an "x" on the incorrect answers and it's overwhelming to see a page full of red.  I am an art therapist, so I know that different people associate different things with different colors, but on a school paper, red generally equals wrong.  I am all for giving the student the grade they deserve. I could get an "F" on a paper (hypothetically), but if the professor typed out her response or wrote it in a color other than red, it would be accepted a little easier.