Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom

Bubbalub

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:6a8475e1-98b7-4b2d-83b5-7850cf977f7b">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]That's sad bubbalub.  On that topic though, and on what Mandy said and the other poster on page 1 of this post - it is SO important to teach your kids to tell you when something is making them uncomfortable and for you to listen and watch your kids for telling behavior.  Like if your kid is really depressed about going to daycare, you need to be looking at the why.  If your kid doesn't want to hug Grandpa, don't make him/her, talk to them about why.  Your kids have instincts just like you do and it's to you as the parent to teach them that they can come to you if they are in a bad situation, or bubba in your case, they could have taught you that you should have told your parents what was going on with the bullying you know? <strong> I guess my point is, it's not just about where you are taking your kids, it's also about teaching your kids and watching them for signs.</strong>
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. I do believe I told my parents that one of the older boys would kick me every day as we walked to school because I remember my mom mentioning it once. (All the elementary school-age kids would walk to school together and back together to/from the daycare). I believe my parents talked to the daycare about it and it stopped. I don't even remember it that much now.

But that same boy slammed my face into a door and I cut that strip of flesh that attached your upper lip to your gums. I think he only got a slap on the wrist. Of course my parents knew about that one as the daycare had to call them.

There was one "teacher", though, who encouraged the older kids to taunt the younger ones. I remember one day being chased up to the very top of the jungle gym and crying hysterically while all the other kids in my group (we were separated into "classes") taunted and teased me and prevented me from being able to get back down onto the ground. The guy just sat at a picnic table nearby and laughed. I think I was just too embarrassed to tell my parents what was going on and I would never tell them now because it would really hurt them to know that I was being treated badly without their knowledge and there's nothing they could do about it now, 25-odd years later.

I think that's why the idea of cameras in the daycare at FI's job makes me feel a  bit more secure because he can check in whenever he wants.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:e4576670-e574-4480-b71a-f4cab2dd89be">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : I'm shocked too! Wtf? I'm curious now, though. Where FI works they have an in-house daycare so even if we did have to have both of us working at least FI would be right there if anything happened and would be able to visit our child during the day. They even have cameras set up so you can see what your kid is up to in the daycare while you are at your desk/office.  I wonder if they have to pay for a full week there, as well? Hmmm.
Posted by Bubbalub[/QUOTE]

Not sure, but my mother used to run a corporate day care center and they had part-time slots, but not many. And if you're part-time, they prefer at least 3 days a week. One day a week isn't doing anyone any good.

Calypso1977

call me selfish, but i know i'd never give up my pension.

also, even if you found a daycare for, say, $800 month, that's $800 a month.  we dont have an extra $800 a month discretionary income floating around.  i wish we did.

we could easily feed and clothe probably 3 or 4 kids.  its the daycare that is holding us back.  its tough, i dont know how people do it, unless they just resign themselves to a life of debt.  not somethign we are willing to do.

danieliza1127

Aw bubba, that's sad.  People are assholes.  You can't protect your kids from that kind of stuff forever though.  It can just as easily happen when they're in regular school, unless you're planning to home school I guess.  But yes, cameras at the daycare center that you could check in on would be good I agree.

kikibaby

Calypso, the pension is a good point.  I work for city government, and I've got a pretty awesome pension plan.  I do get it all back if I leave then come back to the city, but I wouldn't be earning during the time I didn't work there (obviously). 

Bubbalub

As for the pension I have, I transferred my 401k from my old company into an IRA that I can contribute to independently of my current company. I also have a 401k with my current company that, when I leave, I will roll over into the same IRA that I can continue to contribute to, whether or not I have a job with another company that has a pension plan. I'm not terribly worried about that aspect because, sure, I won't have the money that my company "matches" me going into my IRA but I will still have that retirement savings plan available no matter what decision we make.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Also, I'd only leave my child with a nationally accredited center. (Home day care cam be accredited, as well.)

harbor_girl

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:220088b7-b08f-4986-8e11-e4da44ba92d6">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : This too. We learn all about the "Mommy Track" in some of my business classes. Staying home for even one year can reduce your lifetime earnings by up to 15% in one study. If your salary average is $40k, and you work for 45 years, that's a loss of $270k. Insane, right?
Posted by btrflykate1230[/QUOTE]

<div>For me, this is a huge consideration.  I'm close to starting as an attorney with a good law firm, and I know if I left the workforce for 5-7 years to stay at home with my kids until they were in school, it would be extremely difficult for me to reenter the profession.  Not impossible, but extremely difficult.  And then I think, why would I quit work for 7 years when I busted my ass all through law school to get this degree?  All of the loans and hard work would seem like a waste if I quit for that long, plus there would be a huge reduction in my lifetime earnings.</div><div>
</div><div>I also really hate it when people on the nest/the bump say that working mothers prefer material stuff over raising their kids.  One of the reasons my husband and I both want to be working parents is so that we can help pay for college tuition and probably even send our kids to private schools (most public schools in our area are horrible).  It's not because we want to buy designer clothing or live in a mansion or take ridiculously expensive vacations every 4 months.  For me, being able to provide my children with the best education possible is extremely important -- and in our area, it will require two incomes.</div>

redheadfsu

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:220088b7-b08f-4986-8e11-e4da44ba92d6">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : This too. We learn all about the "Mommy Track" in some of my business classes. Staying home for even one year can reduce your lifetime earnings by up to 15% in one study. If your salary average is $40k, and you work for 45 years, that's a loss of $270k. Insane, right?
Posted by btrflykate1230[/QUOTE]

Yep, the mommy track is part/most of the reason women get 70 cents to a dollar. The choices that women make really impact their lifelong earning potential. This is why alimony is still around.

Calypso1977

Calypso, the pension is a good point.  I work for city government, and I've got a pretty awesome pension plan.  I do get it all back if I leave then come back to the city, but I wouldn't be earning during the time I didn't work there (obviously). 

yes, ours is like that too, as long as you dont cash it out.  but you still lose years of service.  so, if you start at 25, work till 35 and earn 10 years, then leave until 50, you've just lost 15 years so at age 50, you still only have 10 years on the books.  i know when i look at my grid, age 50 and 10 years of service doesnt get you much, but age 50 with 25 years is much, much more.

AdeleDazeem

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:ca1150ab-e2c5-447e-a814-926110f06650">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : For me, this is a huge consideration.  I'm close to starting as an attorney with a good law firm, and I know if I left the workforce for 5-7 years to stay at home with my kids until they were in school, it would be extremely difficult for me to reenter the profession.  Not impossible, but extremely difficult.  And then I think, why would I quit work for 7 years when I busted my ass all through law school to get this degree?  All of the loans and hard work would seem like a waste if I quit for that long, plus there would be a huge reduction in my lifetime earnings. I also really hate it when people on the nest/the bump say that working mothers prefer material stuff over raising their kids.  One of the reasons my husband and I both want to be working parents is so that we can help pay for college tuition and probably even send our kids to private schools (most public schools in our area are horrible).  It's not because we want to buy designer clothing or live in a mansion or take ridiculously expensive vacations every 4 months.  For me, being able to provide my children with the best education possible is extremely important -- and in our area, it will require two incomes.
Posted by harbor_girl[/QUOTE]

I agree with your sentiment here a lot.  But, I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong with expensive vacations.  My parents paid for awesome trips all over the world - at ten, I'd been to London, Wales, and Ireland.  That helps a child's education as well!

harbor_girl

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:433d836d-6044-4a5d-b142-f0a8f61d9400">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : I agree with your sentiment here a lot.  But, I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong with expensive vacations.  My parents paid for awesome trips all over the world - at ten, I'd been to London, Wales, and Ireland.  That helps a child's education as well!
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]

<div>Oh, I have nothing against expensive vacations!  My parents both worked and took me and my sister on some pretty great trips as well :)  I just hate it when people say, "You just want to work so you can piss away money on frivolous stuff (and then name vacations, designer clothing, mansions, cars, whatever else) instead of raising your kids."  What those judgy mcjudgersons don't understand is that I want to work to provide more<em> for my kids</em> -- not just for myself.  </div><div>
</div><div>Then again, I also take issue with the notion that you aren't "raising" your kids if you work.  I had a nanny and stayed in daycare at various points of my early childhood -- yet I would never say that anyone but my parents "raised" me.</div>

Calypso1977

i do think there is SOME merit to the working for material goods.

i have talked to some moms who work that tell me they'd LOVE to stay home, btu cant afford it.  then i see they live in a $400-$500K home, drive a lexus and some expensive SUV, and i see some of their other spending habits and i think that if they were willing to live in a smaller home or drive older/cheaper cars then they could afford to stay home.  but maybe tehy dont really want to stay home, and just say they wish they could to somehow save face because they feel guilty they work?  that, i dont know.

wadingmoose

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:7311f0ef-8827-4fe4-b708-90bfce991ad0">Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]Does how much you make affect whether you're going to be a SAHM or a working mom (if you are planning on kids)? For instance, I'd really be ok with being a working mom, but we think it might be more cost effective for me to stay home.  My income would almost all go to day care, which seems kinda silly. 
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]


SAHM, but to me it isn't a financial question.

tenofcups4me

It's probably a moot point for me now, unless we adopt, but I'd always planned to continue working and never wanted to be a sam. I'd like to say money has nothing to do with it, but that's coming from a position where I make enough to say that. While I feel like it's important to keep working, I don't know how I'd feel if my entire salary were going to daycare.

My "ideal" would have been to continue working at home (I'm a freelancer) and hire a part-time nanny to come to the house for at least part of the time while I worked at home for the first year or so. Then daycare after that. To me, that's really the best of all worlds -- continue working but have my child in my house and be able to see her/him whenever I wanted during the workday. But I know that's not an option for a lot of people.

mandysmear

going back to the working moms are materialistic.

who gives a shiit if they are?!  that's their choice.  people get so  uppity when they have children.  the bump people are nutbars.  all of them.

sorry, i was thinking about this statement and it pisses me off. 

MVJP10

I have thought about being a SAHM, but I don't know if I could do it. FI has offered to be a stay at home dad though!

kikibaby

I was thinking the same thing, Mandy.  Those material things may include nice clothes for your kids, summer camp, after school activities, a nice house in a good neighborhood... those are all material things, but what's wrong with wanting them? 

mrscarter052011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:bf93ca7c-382a-4d02-bafb-a64e1682d362">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]How much I make (or my husband makes) has nothing to do with whether I will stay home or not.  My mom worked, my grandmother worked, and I will most certainly work when I have kids. I'm allowed to be a person in my own right as well as a mother.  Some people get a sense of self-worth from different things, including motherhood.  If being a mother fulfills you, then by all means stay home. <strong> But, it wouldn't satisfy me</strong>. I'd love to work out a part-time plan or different hours so my child isn't spending all day at a day care, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.  But not working at all?  I don't believe that will ever be an option for me, regardless of how much money is floating around my home.
Posted by Joy2611[/QUOTE]

This is it for me too.  I am a working mother and other than maybe reducing my work week to fewer hours I would keep working regardless of the amount of money in my household.

harbor_girl

I agree that there's nothing wrong with wanting material things.  I guess I'm not articulating what I mean well enough -- what I hate is when the "nutbars" (thanks mandy) say that if you're a working mom, you prioritize material possessions over your kids.  And that just isn't the case for the working mothers I know.

Then again, I hate most of the snap judgments people make about both working mothers and stay at home moms.  "SAHMs are lazy and do nothing but get pedicures and lie around the house all day" vs. "Working moms aren't really raising their kids/why have kids if you're not going to raise them."  I hear both of those sentiments all the time.  It's hard enough for women out there, why do we have to tear each other down?

mandysmear

yeah.  sorry i don't want to buy drugstore shampoo, eat all no-name groceries, clip coupons,  and never go out for dinner. 

i want to work.  i want a cleaning lady.  i want my kid to enjoy fun activities like hockey, ballet, soccer, baseball, museums, zoos, arts, camps, family vacations, etc.  not working wouldn't allow for that.  unless H gets a MASSIVE pay increase in the next 5 years.  which i am pretty sure won't happen.

mandysmear

i agree.  the working mothers i know go out and buy stuff for their children before they spend on themselves. 

and i hate when people think stay at home moms have it easy.  they don't.  they're working. and they don't get to leave their job.  i get to leave my desk at the end of the day.  atay at home mamas don't. 

andyandhillary

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:8b8b69bc-d4db-4d8f-a78e-7fdf79658154">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]yeah.  sorry i don't want to buy drugstore shampoo, eat all no-name groceries, clip coupons,  and never go out for dinner.  i want to work.  i want a cleaning lady.  i want my kid to enjoy fun activities like hockey, ballet, soccer, baseball, museums, zoos, arts, camps, family vacations, etc.  not working wouldn't allow for that.  unless H gets a MASSIVE pay increase in the next 5 years.  which i am pretty sure won't happen.
Posted by mandysmear[/QUOTE]

I the exact same way.  I also want my kids to attend private (hopefully religious) school so that's a pretty penny. 

mrscarter052011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:6c99a37d-79ec-42d1-8c84-9fa791af7c76">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]I was thinking the same thing, Mandy.  Those material things may include nice clothes for your kids, summer camp, after school activities, a nice house in a good neighborhood... those are all material things, but what's wrong with wanting them? 
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

IMO, there's nothing wrong with wanting them, especially not when you're working for them.  My cousin's wife is a biitch and will always make comments at my daughter's birthday parties or if she's wearing a pretty dress and say things like "well, she can have that because she is an only child, blah, blah, blah".  I want to smack her.  I pay for these things and I made the choice to only have one child (ok maybe the db ex may that choice) she made the choice to have more than one child and to spend money on other things.  But people can be jerks.

melliott09

I was a SAHM when my older 2 boys were younger, but it was 10 years ago and we lived in VA off a military salary. The cost of living down there is less compared to NJ and we were able to swing it.

Now being back in Jersey, I work full time, while the older boys are in school, but FI works at night, so he is home with our son, who is now 3. If it wasn't for our switched schedules, we'd be working just to pay daycare costs.

squirrly

I would prefer to be a WFHM - work from home mom.  I'd take a part time SAHM, but working full time from home would be my absolute preference.  I'd still want the kids to go to daycare a couple of days a week, for socialization and such.  The rest of the time, I'd probably have somebody come in a couple of hours a day to help with stuff so that I could still work, but be around for emergencies, to see firsts, etc. 

Back home, day care is generally available in either Tu/Th or MWF slots, all half day.  You can combine them to cover the full week, or pick and choose what you want.  They never have trouble filling classes, it seems. 

Here, I don't know because we haven't started really researching yet - I just asked buttrflykate a few weeks ago. 

Calypso1977

mandy, you have  cleaning lady?  i'm so jealous.  i want one twice a month, just to do the  big stuff like scrub the shower, clean the bathrooms, mop the floors and dust.  H doenst trust anyone in our house, though.  :-(

kikibaby

That's the kind of cleaning (dude) we have, Calypso.  Every other Thursday, he cleans toilets, sinks, mops, all that crappy stuff.  It's freaking awesome and worth every. single. penny.  I haven't cleaned a toilet in 4 years.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:2f216d49-5f2b-408e-83bb-eec7cf5d0824">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]mandy, you have  cleaning lady?  i'm so jealous.  i want one twice a month, just to do the  big stuff like scrub the shower, clean the bathrooms, mop the floors and dust.  H doenst trust anyone in our house, though.  :-(
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

That's what we have and it's the best thing ever. FI says he'd rather get rid of the cable if we had to than the cleaning service. He and I both grew up in houses that had similar things (my parents' used to pay the neighbor, who had a cleaning business, $40 every 2 weeks to clean the house). So it doesn't seem weird to us, but I have friends who can't believe we let people come in our house when we're gone. (Honestly, the thing I worry about most is the cats getting out. Just go through a professional service that's bonded and insured.) And, like Kiki, I never have to clean the bathroom. I just sweep/swiffer between visits and we do laundry/dishes/cat box. The cleaners scrub the bathroom, wash the floors, dust everything.

squirrly

I had a "house fairy" in Louisville.  I miss that SO MUCH up here.  I've pretty well decided it's a must-have again, as soon as I can find one I can afford AND trust.  Those are hard to combine, unfortunately!