2nd Weddings/ Vow Renewal/ Pretty Princess Day

Liberty27

What would be an acceptable reason to have a 2nd wedding/vow renewal/pretty princess day other than being an AW and having the inability to accept the consequences of one's decisions?  Just curious because my sister and I were arguing about it last night, and the only answer I could come up with is when both people are members of the armed forces and they are getting deployed.  Thoughts?

ohwhynot

I wouldn't attend a vow renewal that was really just an excuse to stage the wedding the couple really wanted unless it marked a milestone anniversary or overcoming some big life challenge or something like that.  I would attend a party (without a fake ceremony) to celebrate a small, private wedding after the fact as long as the couple wasn't trying to pretend that they weren't already married. 

quotequeen

I cannot think of any reason.  Being deployed doesn't cut it for me.

danieliza1127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2nd-weddings-vow-renewal-pretty-princess-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:af8e0dde-56a9-40d1-b408-f7ec24891cc5Post:7961f6dd-2a6c-4d12-b912-e7df9c6b1729">2nd Weddings/ Vow Renewal/ Pretty Princess Day</a>:
[QUOTE]What would be an acceptable reason to have a 2nd wedding/vow renewal/pretty princess day other than being an AW and having the inability to accept the consequences of one's decisions?  Just curious because my sister and I were arguing about it last night, and <strong>the only answer I could come up with is when both people are members of the armed forces and they are getting deployed</strong>.  Thoughts?
Posted by Liberty27[/QUOTE]

A lot of people don't even think that is a good excuse because the couple can still plan a traditional wedding in a short time frame before the deployment if they really want to.

I think this is just a personal opinion type issue.  I have a co-worker who had a private ceremony before her H deployed, and then when he got back from Iraq, they had the whole big church ceremony and reception.  I wasn't offended by it.  I figured, meh, whatever they want and their families seemed happy and excited, so who am I to judge.  Now that's just me.  I have no way to know if any of their guests were offended or judgmental about what they were doing, and that's the risk you take I guess.

jamiefour

I think a vow renewal party is different then having another wedding and not telling people about the JOP wedding.

OWN-Gorgeous pic from your wedding!

salt78

After having attended a second wedding/pretty princess day for the first time this year, I can assure you that I'd never want to do it again for any reason. It left a bad taste in my mouth. 

And I don't see the point in renewing your vows unless you have already been married for an extended period of time. 

laurenclaire1386

I have a really closed-minded view of this topic, and I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I don't like the idea of it, ever. Also, I'm not in that position, so I'm not qualified to really have an opinion on it. My deal, though, is your wedding day is your wedding day, period. And I'm going to pull out the trite, cliche party line: as long as you're married at the end of the day, it was a success, and the rest of it is unnecessary (albeit fun and special) fluff. It seems to take away all of the sentimentality to have a do over because you couldn't have all the details you originally wanted, for whatever reason. Even when the couple is honest about the vow renewal not being their wedding, it still bothers me. I find vow renewals to be contrived. Again, I'm not in this position, so I have no idea how it would feel to have to JOP it for deployment reasons, then have a big shindig later. I guess to longwindedly answer your question, deployment is the only valid reason I can come up with for doing this.

pumpkinpumpkin

FWIW. I think it's acceptable in my instance.

We were planning a Feb 2010 DW in Hawaii, and my (now) husband was diagnosed with Lymphoma in October of 2009. Obviously we canceled plans to get married in HI, and opted to have a JOP ceremony with only our parents and siblings present on the same day our HI wedding was planned for.

I still want my wedding. But I don't think we're going to, but if we did, or anyone else in my shoes did, I would think it's acceptable.

Brie2010

I think there's a difference between vow renewals and pretty princess days.  You can have a vow renewal without being over-the-top about it, and I'm a-okay with that for couple's 20th, 30th, 50th wedding anniversaries.  I think it's pretty sweet for them to have a party to say, hey, we still love each other, let's celebrate with others.

Having pretty princess days, meaning a big wedding with BMs, poufy dress, church, etc is fine with me, too, so long as you call a spade a spade.  I think they are AW-ish and annoying in most circumstances if the couple just decided to JOP it and have a big wedding for shiits and giggles later. 

I am 100% cool with them if something comes up that was beyond the couple's control that thwarted their original wedding plans and there is a compelling reason to get married now rather than postpone, such as deployment or a major illness of one of the partners.

In any case, I think they should be clearly labeled as a vow renewal and not a wedding.

opalsky007

I feel like it's fine for deployments IF the depolyment jacked up existing wedding plans. Like if the date got moved up, the couple got married anyway, but were able to use their existing deposits and payments to hold a party on a later date.

I also feel like it's okay with major immigration issues, IF the couple is honest about it and doesn't treat their legal ceremony like it's a throwaway. Basically, I think it's ok to celebrate with friends and family when your plans get screwed up, as long as you realize that a dress and cake and presents aren't what make you married.

MattsPenguin

I agree that deployments are one reason for such a thing.  Although so many of my brother's friends get married so young, since they are in the military . . . okay a different topic.

Also, a friend of mine had a small JOP type of ceremony after her FI's fiance visa was approved by the US, since it gives them a tiny window in which they must marry to make the visa valid.  She had the big party the next year.  I had no qualms whatsoever about how this all went down.  And we had a great party the next year.  Of course everyone knew that they were already married, so it wasn't any secret. 

quotequeen

Basically, I think it's ok to celebrate with friends and family when your plans get screwed up, as long as you realize that a dress and cake and presents aren't what make you married.

To clarify, I don't have a problem with people celebrating later with friends and family, in the form of a big party.  I just think re-doing the ceremony for any reason is ridiculous.

An actual vow renewal (after 25+ years of marriage) is fine, but if it involves a wedding party or anything like that I will still think it's ridiculous.

baystateapple

I've known two girls that did the whole JOP-princess day later.  I really didn't care about the first time, because we all knew about it.  But the second girl lied to everyone, including her parents, and that made me angry. 

I really don't care, I think it's silly to do "two weddings", but hey, if you feel like spending the money and having a big faux wedding, knock yourself out.  It's the lying that really chafes me.

squirrly

If the couple tells the truth about being married, then I don't care.  I might not attend, and I might not do it myself, but if they want to get dressed up and have a big party - go for it.

If they lie, I REALLY hope karma comes back to them.

What I hate, hate, hate the most is military marriages in secret to get the extra BAH payment.  A bunch of people JOP in secret, get that BAH, and save it to pay for their pretty princess day.  Some of them don't really get it that they're married.  I see it as defrauding the US military.

If my H had been deployed before our wedding, we'd have changed the wedding date and planned as much as we could manage for before the deployment.  We'd have had a bigger (casual) party when he got back to celebrate him coming home.  I would not have worn a wedding dress for that party, though.

If he'd been deployed on very short notice, we'd have invited basically our immediate family & WP and had a small wedding w/ dinner afterwards.  We'd still have gotten a photographer, etc., and that would have been our wedding.  I could have put that together in 10 days, but it would likely have been a Friday or Sunday.  No "party" to the reception, really.  We'd most likely have gone out to the bars after, actually. 

I just don't understand how a pretty princess day could feel as special as your actual wedding day.  I do understand wanting one, and I don't fault anybody for that, or for doing it - so long as they're open and honest regarding their marital status.

opalsky007

Well, to each their own. I didn't find it ridiculous when my ILs renewed their vows for their 25th, and had their siblings and kids stand up with them. It was a small family affair, and it was their way of honoring people who were important in their lives.

ohwhynot

Aw, thanks Jamiefour!

I've only been to one vow renewal, and that marked the couple's 10 year anniversary.  Normally I wouldn't think 10 years was all THAT awesome, but in this couple's case they had both overcome severe heroin addictions and were also celebrating their new, sober lives together.  It was a casual renewal in their back yard - no bridal party or anything like that. 

For deployed people, I don't know.  It seems silly to me to try to recreate a wedding ceremony and I can't really get behind that.  A celebration of homecoming and the marriage is okay in my book, but forego the bridal party and faux ceremony. 

laurenclaire1386

I'm starting to think about the term "vow renwal." Your vows don't expire. They're not drivers' licenses. They don't need renewing. And I'm with PPs who said vow renewals are kind of strange to me unless you've been married a long time, like 20 years or something. Even then, I'd just call it an anniversary party. I guess I just don't foresee ever wanting to re-do my wedding ceremony.

opalsky007

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2nd-weddings-vow-renewal-pretty-princess-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:af8e0dde-56a9-40d1-b408-f7ec24891cc5Post:c2d342cd-ad42-417f-8dc8-03a57fd4bf64">Re: 2nd Weddings/ Vow Renewal/ Pretty Princess Day</a>:
[QUOTE]If the couple tells the truth about being married, then I don't care.  I might not attend, and I might not do it myself, but if they want to get dressed up and have a big party - go for it. If they lie, I REALLY hope karma comes back to them. What I hate, hate, hate the most is military marriages in secret to get the extra BAH payment.  <strong>A bunch of people JOP in secret, get that BAH, and save it to pay for their pretty princess day.  Some of them don't really get it that they're married.  I see it as defrauding the US military.</strong> If my H had been deployed before our wedding, we'd have changed the wedding date and planned as much as we could manage for before the deployment.  We'd have had a bigger (casual) party when he got back to celebrate him coming home.  I would not have worn a wedding dress for that party, though. If he'd been deployed on very short notice, we'd have invited basically our immediate family & WP and had a small wedding w/ dinner afterwards.  We'd still have gotten a photographer, etc., and that would have been our wedding.  I could have put that together in 10 days, but it would likely have been a Friday or Sunday.  No "party" to the reception, really.  We'd most likely have gone out to the bars after, actually.  I just don't understand how a pretty princess day could feel as special as your actual wedding day.  I do understand wanting one, and I don't fault anybody for that, or for doing it - so long as they're open and honest regarding their marital status.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

I hate that crap too. My cousin didn't get married in secret, but did marry a guy she'd known for 4 months so that she could collect BAH and pay off her debts faster. Boy, did that backfire. She's now 21 and divorced, with a mortgage. Gah.

temerityjane

I think a vow renewal is different than having a whole second wedding, and I don't really think a vow renewal makes sense except for on a major anniversary. I also think it doesn't come with the big white dress, showers, etc.

I think a reception or party when funds or situations allow is also perfectly acceptable, but again, without the gown and without the parties, etc.

I'm not offended by the IDEA of doing it, exactly. I'm offended by the JUSTIFICATIONS people come up with for it, if that makes sense. "It's okay for me to do this because my situation is super super special and I DESERVE all of the wedding trappings."

ETA: So basically, I see no reasonable justification for the second white dress, big reception, bouquet toss, wedding-duplicate, ever.

squirrly

Yeah, the whole thing of military folks getting married too young is another story, too.  It's way too prevalant.  Especially because too many 19 year old kids go home after being in Basic or some other training, get their gf knocked up, and then get encouraged to marry her so that they get the BAH payment in order to help support the kid and pay for insurance. 

Um, yeah, but then they're MARRIED.  At 19 or 20.  And how many of those work out?  Riiiight. 

temerityjane

Also, I basically can echo squirrly word for word.

Marrying for the extra BAH is AWFUL, especially those who say they're not "really" married and it's just the legal part and all the other shiz they say. It's not okay to do that just because one of you is military. You ARE really married.

Also, we had all of our contracts written with a military clause - in the case of inconvenient deployment, we'd have been able to keep all of our deposits and move to another reasonable day in the future, OR, again like squirrly said, a short notice deployment would have led to us scrambling together a small, very nice JOP ceremony with a close family and friends celebration.

Refusing to acknowledge that is IS possible to plan a nice little event on very short notice is obnoxious. Refusing to grow up an accept the fact that sacrificing your big wedding may very well be the smallest sacrifice you have to make with the military is obnoxious. The attitude that a couple "deserves" a big white wedding with all the trappings is obnoxious.

It's all just obnoxious.

MattsPenguin

I felt so old with my brother's friends when I visited at 29 Palms (USMC).  He is almost 23 now, but his friends were all married.  Of course at least one or two of them are already on their way to divorce court.  They were all so young and immature.  There was only one girl there, that I felt had a good head on her shoulders. One of his friends was lamenting about how he wasn't married yet, at 20.   I'm so happy my brother hasn't felt the pressure to get married yet.  He's happy being 23 and single.  YAY BRO!

temerityjane

Squirrly and CS, we have a 21 year old friend who is dating a 20 year old chick. Both are AF. Her divorce was JUST FINAL and she's angling for a ring from him. She's already pulled the "some guy tried stuff with me!" (delicate phrasing) while he was in Iraq, and just did the "I think I might be pregnant" thing last week.

Divorced at 20, ok, it happens, pushing for another ring ALSO STILL AT 20 OH MY GOD.

He's got a good head on his shoulders about it, though, thank god.

hcbrowne

I thought I would chime in on this topic because I am in a position where I am being told I should JOP. My fiance is joining the air force (we have been together for 4 yrs--he just decided to do this over this past yr). We just found out his ship date to bootcamp yesterday, it is October 12th. I had been semi-planning with the idea that we may be able to get married in the winter/early spring while we were waiting for him to get a contract (he was actually given a contract very quickly after he finished medical exams, etc.).
I personally don't WANT to JOP, but everyone in my family and his family is telling us to do so (so not exactly what you may expect abt judgements, etc.). I will be finishing my degree in December, and he will be finishing bootcamp in December. My only hope at this point, since he will be done on the 12th, and then immediately sent to tech school he will be able to come home for Christmas exodus (during which time we could have the wedding).
My biggest issue is that I wanted to be able to plan the wedding with enough advance warning to properly invite our familes, and for them to be able to attend. It is not abt having a "pretty princess day"---it is just kind of a nightmare trying to plan a wedding around the military. I am not young and trying to marry some guy I barely know. From yesterday (when I found out the ship date) to the day he leaves is a little over 2 months. It's just not enough time to plan/invite family that would have to make travel plans.
I guess you could make the argument that I could wait even longer...and find somewhere to live for x amnt of months (I finish my degree in dec.) but it isn't really a logical option (that apparently no one in the families thinks is a good idea).
It can just get really complicated. All I'm sayin.

KentuckyKate

My brother and SIL did this, and I think it was totally acceptable in their circumstance.

He lived in Egypt for two years on a naval scholarship attending the American University in Cairo to learn Arabic.  He met SIL, his scholarship ended, and he moved back home. He went to visit her and proposed, and they decided she would move to the US after the wedding. However, they knew it would take 1-2 years for her immigration paperwork to go through even after they were legally married. 

So he went back to visit her, taking my dad and grandfather, and they got married by an American JOP in Cairo to get the ball rolling with immigration.  Brother came back home again, and then 22 family members all flew to Egypt for their church wedding the following summer.

Before the big Egyptian wedding, they were only legally married in the U.S, but not in Egypt.  Also, for Coptics (SIL's religion) the wedding isn't recognized unless it takes place at a Christian church.

So even though she could have come to the U.S. with the first JOP wedding, they had a big church wedding and ballroom reception in Egypt a year after they were legally married.  Technically, they could have had a small church service in Egypt and forego the big reception, but I don't see why she should have had to forfeit her pretty princess day when that American JOP ceremony didn't mean a thing to her, her family, her religion, or her country.

Timeline:  Immigration took 19 months.  U.S. JOP in August 2007, Egyptian wedding in June 2008, and then my brother didn't see his wife until she was approved in March of 2009 and moved here.

strlzfan11

Two good friends of mine from college moved their wedding date up when they realized her now-H was going to be deployed to Iraq a few weeks after their original wedding date.  Their original date was supposed to be in October.  They found out in August that he was getting deployed around November 1.  They scrambled and got all their vendors to come together for a wedding in September.  I'm actually glad it happened the way it did, because I wouldn't have been able to attend their wedding on their original date as I was already committed to attending a family wedding that day on the other side of the state.

Your JOP wedding (if you have one) is your wedding; you don't get a do-over IMO.  Wait until you hit a big milestone (like at least 25 years) to renew your vows.  If you want to plan a party with family and friends, plan something that is more informal (like a big family picnic) and don't wear the big poofy dress.

jayjoe

I have gone to them and will continue to. Some girls grow up dreaming of their wedding day and i dont see a thing wrong with that. If finances/timing/etc arent in their favor and they decide to do something later, whatever. If its a case where i can see their hearts truly arent in the right place (doing it for the gifts and not because they wanted a dream wedding), then i wont go. But its not hurting me so i dont really care. Life is way too short (i just lost someone recently very suddenly) so i cant see begrudging someone that memory. Thats just me though lol

temerityjane

hcbrowne, you're not the first person to plan a wedding around the military. It IS possible to do so. Also, it's totally fine to JOP. There's nothing wrong with that and lots of people do it. There's just no real reason to throw yourself an actual wedding AFTER the JOP, when you're already married.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2nd-weddings-vow-renewal-pretty-princess-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:af8e0dde-56a9-40d1-b408-f7ec24891cc5Post:9504917e-b181-4d5c-b599-a489759ca893">Re: 2nd Weddings/ Vow Renewal/ Pretty Princess Day</a>:
[QUOTE]I cannot think of any reason.  Being deployed doesn't cut it for me.
Posted by quotequeen[/QUOTE]

Same. I agree with LC as well. Why bother? What's the point? KNOWING that it's a "sham wedding" doesn't make it any more acceptable to me.

Of course, I've never been to a vow renewal and from what I've heard, they're pretty AWish. I've been to anniversary parties. Which are kind of like wedding receptions - dinner/drinks/DJ/gifts/dancing, usually in a rented out hall of some sort. At least, my grandparents' 50th was. But there was no "renewal of vows," which, IMO, is pointless, cause you made them once. No WP. No big fluffy dress.

MissLeahM

hcbrowne : My cousin planned her wedding in 5 weeks, its totally do able and it wasn't just a JOB wedding, it was a very nice church wedding.

hcbrowne

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2nd-weddings-vow-renewal-pretty-princess-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:af8e0dde-56a9-40d1-b408-f7ec24891cc5Post:7e899757-a6e2-476e-90b2-b38aa2e0feba">Re: 2nd Weddings/ Vow Renewal/ Pretty Princess Day</a>:
[QUOTE]hcbrowne, you're not the first person to plan a wedding around the military. It IS possible to do so. Also, it's totally fine to JOP. There's nothing wrong with that and lots of people do it. There's just no real reason to throw yourself an actual wedding AFTER the JOP, when you're already married.
Posted by temerityjane[/QUOTE]

I appreciate that, and I know that people do it all the time. I just have a lot of family pressure to have a wedding where family can attend, etc. If I do have a JOP wedding, I would feel very strange having another ceremony, but this is what everyone in both of our families is expecting us to do. In reality it would be a small wedding anyway and only family would be attending sans a handful of very close friends (less than 5). I know my Grandparents would be very upset with me if I didn't have a "proper" wedding, or they didn't recieve a "proper" invitation. Just thinking about it makes me feel ill. My parents actually had a JOP ceremony when they got married, and none of the extended family were able to attend. My Grandmother was so upset about it she wrote a fake wedding announcement in a Savannah newspaper (no joke) including details of the wedding and honeymoon that never happened. So honestly for me, I'm just trying to figure out a way to have a wedding ceremony I can plan and invite family to instead of JOP'ing. We will see.