"If you want to live here, learn English"

sarah0725

Wanting English to be the official language for things like driving tests and jobs seems to me to be inconsistent with being against social programs, such as welfare.

Allowing job agencies and DMVs to offer multilingual services makes it possible for people who want to work but don't speak English to acquire the skills necessary to support themselves. The more people who are working, the fewer people there are who need lots of government assistance. If someone doesn't speak English and therefore can't work, what are they supposed to do to support themselves while they are learning English? Or do we prefer that people who can't speak English just die in the streets?

I mean, lots of people hated the Irish during the nineteenth century, to points of ridiculousness, but thankfully the Irish were given a few decades to establish themselves. It took a few generations, though.

jasmineh7777

I think being bi-lingual would be advantageous to anyone. I am learning Spanish and Latin, and the more I learn, the more I realize that English would be a difficult second language. All of our rules have exceptions; our spelling is unpredictable, etc.

andy71781

Sarah I think we are on the same page.  I am totally fine with people having a functional knowledge of English - and it is necessary for most places to get around.  But the big things - social services things - those can be bi-lingual and be all right.

kate51485

My issue with people not learning English at all is that, if they come here, presumably it was because they wanted to, or they thought they would have better opportunity, or something along those lines.  Shouldn't they WANT to learn it to maximize their benefits of coming here?  I'm not saying they need to have a doctorate.  But enough to conduct day to day business, or basic conversations, would seem like a desirable thing.  Especially because way too often you see young children who speak English and must take care of their non-English speaking parents.  I think that is really unfortunate -- no child should have to pay bills or call the insurance company because their parent is unable.

andyandhillary

I think if everyone else's families learned English people should still do so.  My family hasn't been here long compared to others and you know what?  No one complained.  They learned English because, if nothing else, it's polite.  They still spoke Italian at home and in the neighborhood but they also wanted to be American, and with that they believed that meant speaking English.

What also makes me mad is that we cater so much to one group of people.  In my hometown, there are tons of Bosnian immigrants who came in the 90s.  English is very different from their language but they did it anyway. 

Does it need to be an official language?  No.  But I think the catering needs to stop.  I would never go to any country and expect them to cater to me. 

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:0ff271ec-9e3d-448a-a2a7-8e97d442a03b">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE] White people will soon lose their majority and I think its time for spanish to be recognized as a national language. 
Posted by andy71781[/QUOTE]

That sounds a little racist.

It just sounds like people are saying "Well you are out numbered so your history, and heritage, and language mean nothing.  We are here, we are taking over, and YOU should just get used to it."

I know thats not what you are saying, and clearly you are not a racist :) but thats what I get when I hear this from people.

jasmineh7777

I agree with Sarah, especially in that we have a history of targeting a certain racial groups at certain times. At those times, those groups are villianized, and I think that the political conversation (not here on TK, but in the political realm) is leaning that way.

andy71781

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:e38a5e16-8ccd-46af-bc60-0adce9708307">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : That sounds a little racist. It just sounds like people are saying "Well you are out numbered so your history, and heritage, and language mean nothing.  We are here, we are taking over, and YOU should just get used to it." I know thats not what you are saying, and clearly you are not a racist :) but thats what I get when I hear this from people.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

Thanks for recognizing that I'm not a racist (and possibly one of the whitest white girls on the planet) but I want to say that I don't think once we have a couple languages that English isn't important.  Our history and heritage aren't going anywhere, I just think that the culture will be more interesting and diverse.

TheBeckmeister

What if they know enough English to function here decently well, but are still more comfortable taking the test in their native language?

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:89b36f1b-29cb-4f80-a92d-c0b5b9a4079b">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]France started off as a homogeneous country, from which people emigrated to ... oh, here .  The idea that our country needs to have one official language completely ignores our history of being the place that took in people from other countries  - and that doing so has always made us stronger<strong><u>. Additionally, you already need to speak English in order to become politically or financially successful in our country.</u></strong>  We don't need to add to that efforts to stamp out other languages by forcing those who don't speak English to become actual second class citizens. All this hatred for immigrants makes me really sad.  Sad because it is a reflection on us and that we've forgotten our roots.  And sad because it dims the promise of opportunity for success that we used to represent to people from other countries.
Posted by carrieoz_76[/QUOTE]

Of course you need to speak english.  Could you imagine if our president did not? 

nda_roxybabe

America will alway be seen as a melting pot. Theres no denying that we have all nationalities of people here and its great but people came here for a reason why don't they want to learn the language? Why should everyone cater to them?

kimheartsscott

I was always taught that the US does not have an official language, somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Also, being successful in the US does not always depend on your ability to speak English.

jasmineh7777

I can see the point of a working knowledge of the language.
Where do you suggest they learn this?
Would you be in support of a program to help Spanish speakers learn English?

A Dancer

If I can make a point going back to the original post, it was the ad campaign that was the "Controvery" and having someone say that out loud as part of there campaign for a "bettter America" I think anyone who speaks like that is just plain ignorant.....but it is Alabama. Anyway isn't america the melting pot of the world anyway.

sapphirebaby926

I have to agree that you should know the language of the country you plan on living in. When my great-grandparents immigrated from Denmark they learned English because it is the language spoken in this country and it would do them no good to flat out refuse to learn it. I live in south Texas and from my experience with spanish-speaking people in the particular area I live in is the reason they don't learn English is not because it's hard it's just that they don't want to learn it and then they expect everyone else to cater to them.

beatlesgirl25

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:96643a64-c22e-4835-a20f-03436b64dc93">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I have a lot of respect for people who learn English as a second language. English is so hard when compared to French or German, because the grammar rules are so arbitrary. Also, these people seem to forget that this is a country that is founded on immigration - none of us came from here, and any decade you look at, there's always a new immigrant group that is seen as a boogeyman. <strong>This "learn English" garbage is also pretty rich when there are so many American-born people that can barely speak or write it themselves.</strong>
Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]

This. And I pretty much agree with everything else Sarah has said on this topic. It takes time for people to learn a new language and acculturate, and they should be accommodated in earning basic skills and certifications just like everyone else in the meantime. Otherwise they won't survive here and then what's the point? Also, some immigrants aren't even literate in their native language, so learning English quickly would pose its own prolonged challenges.

andyandhillary

The best way to learn a language is by being immersed by it.  Programs could be helpful with writing but that's about it.  You have to be willing and from what I'm gathering, many people are not.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:8246014d-efea-4e69-b2d4-ba070eeb1e64">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]America will alway be seen as a melting pot. Theres no denying that we have all nationalities of people here and its great but people came here for a reason why don't they want to learn the language? Why should everyone cater to them?
Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

America is a melting pot of cultures.  Different people from all over the place joining together to become 1 nation. 1 nation with 1 language and 1 set of laws and values.

Not requiring people to learn 1 language does nothing but segregate the country.  If we do not understand each other, we will never learn to live well together.

kate51485

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:3a774bae-f1b3-4091-b81a-3877cd85dde7">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]If I can make a point going back to the original post, it was the ad campaign that was the "Controvery" and having someone say that out loud as part of there campaign for a "bettter America" I think anyone who speaks like that is just plain ignorant.....but it is Alabama. Anyway isn't america the melting pot of the world anyway.
Posted by A Dancer[/QUOTE]

I really wouldn't be using the "i" word with the condition of the writing in your post. 

Amaryllis619

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:ec7efb32-be91-4feb-84bd-add567f8bc6c">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Thanks for recognizing that I'm not a racist (and possibly one of the whitest white girls on the planet) but I want to say that I don't think once we have a couple languages that <strong>English isn't important.</strong> <strong> Our history and heritage aren't going anywhere, I just think that the culture will be more interesting and diverse.</strong>
Posted by andy71781[/QUOTE]

Diversity without assimilation is a bad thing.  OMG seriously think about what you are saying.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

No, I do not. And I live in an area with many non-English speakers. I can't say I've ever been frustrated by someone not knowing English.

People have been immigrating here for centuries and.... not learning English. There were towns in Iowa and Minnesota that spoke German for decades. It's just that in today's society, there's less isolation in areas and more mingling, and therefore it's probably a lot easier to speak one language.

It's also really, really hard to learn a language fluently past the age of about 10. Anyone here done it?

louisvillebride21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:58e604cd-fcb3-4b74-8c6a-a9f16d0b4cb8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Agreed. America is a melting pot of cultures.  Different people from all over the place joining together to become 1 nation. 1 nation with 1 language and 1 set of laws and <strong>values</strong>. Not requiring people to learn 1 language does nothing but segregate the country.  If we do not understand each other, we will never learn to live well together.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
Too far. We don't all have to have the same values. Sure, the whole 'don't kill people' is good. But other than that?

jasmineh7777

I think the generalization about that attitude is what I'm not agreeing with.
If I suddenly went to Poland, I don't think immersion would be enough.

carrieoz_76

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:9ea7cfbe-7c78-421c-a052-3735bd01103b">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't see requiring people know English as wanting to stamp out their language. I mean, we all immigrated here...and yet we all know English.
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]
You would agree, wouldn't you, that having an official language would mean that our country holds that language in higher regard - if it were the language commerce, education and government is to be done in?  Then the corollary is that the other languages would be reduced in importance.

The underlying issue to me is that we don't need an official language to build national pride or encourage people to learn English - most folks who don't speak it recognize that they are at a huge detriment by not doing so.  But not allowing folks who don't speak English to do things like drive (or vote?) would just create a second class of citizens, comprised of immigrants.  Which is what I believe this is really an effort at doing, and what I oppose.

It has no effect on me if there are towns where the signs are in Spanish, or parts of the city where most people speak Viet Namese (or Swedish, as the case may be in some parts of my city).  I honestly don't get why people care if some folks still predominantly speak their first language.

JennaV26

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:94ebbfb1-c3c9-4a7c-8b58-62736a401c56">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]You know, I REALLY hate having to press 1 for English when I call somewhere.
Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]

Ditto.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:b59cb7e6-f846-4730-880c-f06507eb7888">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I can see the point of a working knowledge of the language. Where do you suggest they learn this? Would you be in support of a program to help Spanish speakers learn English?
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

Where I am from there are ESL programs in all of the schools and free english classes for adults.

Its really not that hard to be exposed to the opportunity.  You could graduate from my high school without ever learning the language.

nda_roxybabe

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:2b5f70d8-e4dd-4391-84ff-94549670d2f0">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]I have to agree that you should know the language of the country you plan on living in. When my great-grandparents immigrated from Denmark they learned English because it is the language spoken in this country and it would do them no good to flat out refuse to learn it. I live in south Texas and from my experience with spanish-speaking people in the particular area I live in is the reason they don't learn English is not because it's hard it's just that they don't want to learn it and then they expect everyone else to cater to them.
Posted by sapphirebaby926[/QUOTE]
This is my experience as well.

Jasmineh- Yes, I would support a program that helped legal immigrants learn english.

andyandhillary

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:bd03b8e8-8160-4975-94cc-750925aed5d9">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : This. And I pretty much agree with everything else Sarah has said on this topic. It takes time for people to learn a new language and acculturate, and they should be accommodated in earning basic skills and certifications just like everyone else in the meantime. Otherwise they won't survive here and then what's the point? Also, some immigrants aren't even literate in their native language, so learning English quickly would pose its own prolonged challenges.
Posted by beatlesgirl25[/QUOTE]

They won't survive?  Surely they could considering most other people have.

sarah0725

You know, there must be something wrong with me. I've never stood in the grocery store looking into other people's carts trying to figure out whether or not they were using food stamps. I've never heard somebody speaking another language and assumed they were sitting at home thinking about how they hate the idea of learning English. I mind my own business, and I assume other people have their reasons for doing the things they do.

Also, in my grad program, we're required to have reading knowledge in two languages besides English. I've noticed that a lot of my friends fail their language exams a bunch of times before they finally pass, which suggests to me that maybe learning other languages isn't super easy, and we all have different speeds at which we're able to do it. I'm not going to judge anyone for the speed at which they learn our stupidly difficult language.

All of these immigration/race issues are complicated, and really understanding them involves looking back at lots of precedents in the history of our country. It's not something that can be solved with a few platitudes.

Amaryllis619

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:58e604cd-fcb3-4b74-8c6a-a9f16d0b4cb8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Agreed. America is a melting pot of cultures.  Different people from all over the place joining together to become 1 nation. 1 nation with 1 language and 1 set of laws and values. Not requiring people to learn 1 language does nothing but segregate the country.  If we do not understand each other, we will never learn to live well together.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

this.  exactly this!