Wedding Etiquette Forum

"If you want to live here, learn English"

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Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:6afb0579-bfd2-4877-a4a3-417e2ee305c8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Government entities have to offer their services via multiple languages because those citizens who speak Icelandic, or whatever, have an equal right to the benefits of being a citizen as someone who speaks English.  That's a good thing about our country. But no one's making me fill out forms in another language, and frankly I benefit an awful lot by being a native English speaker, so I can live with that.
    Posted by carrieoz_76[/QUOTE]
    I understand this part. Clearly we need to offer some things in other languages so that those visiting and moving to our country understand but I think once they move here they should make the effort to learn the language.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:c33bc401-8d76-483a-b676-5d56d04539a5">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]I would hope to hell that Sweden would let me do all of my paperwork in English whille I learned. I also don't think I could get to a point where I could read and write in Swedish without formal education in the language. I am not an auditory learner at all, so it would be difficult for me. I'm also only 21.<strong> If my 80 year old Grandma moved to Sweden, I would not expect her to learn the language.</strong>
    Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]
    I think we're ALL exempting grandma from this equation.
    "In the old days my ass would be in your back yard picking cotton, so excuse me if I don't put much stock in how f*cking awesome the old days were." -Nuggs
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:89b36f1b-29cb-4f80-a92d-c0b5b9a4079b">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]France started off as a homogeneous country, from which people emigrated to ... oh, here .  The idea that our country needs to have one official language completely ignores our history of being the place that took in people from other countries  - and that doing so has always made us stronger. Additionally, you already need to speak English in order to become politically or financially successful in our country.  We don't need to add to that efforts to stamp out other languages by forcing those who don't speak English to become actual second class citizens. All this hatred for immigrants makes me really sad.  Sad because it is a reflection on us and that we've forgotten our roots.  And sad because it dims the promise of opportunity for success that we used to represent to people from other countries.
    Posted by carrieoz_76[/QUOTE]

    Very well said.  Agree 100%.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:1de08bc6-0c8f-4bc5-8dc5-d61d241523e4">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Ok. So, say you moved to Sweden. You would not learn swedish? You would just expect everyone to learn and speak english for you?
    Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]

    I don't think that's what Jasmine said at all. She said it gets harder to learn a new language the older you get. This is just a fact. Our brains gets more and more resistant to new information like this the older we get. That's science.

    Also, I'm going to Italy for six weeks this summer, and I don't speak Italian. I sure as hell hope there are people over there in the hospitals who speak English, because if I get clocked on the head and robbed in Naples, I'm going to need some help.
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  • Learning a new language is not easy. Like Money said, some people may try and just might not be able to do it.

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  • I have applied to, and lost, many jobs that stated in the description "Spanish speaking prefered but not required".  Which basically meant "must be bi-lingual"

    I even worked at a place in Miami that required me to pass a certification.  I was the only non-spanish speaking employee.  The class was in spanish and so was the test.  There was no english option.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:9add35e6-c08e-4afe-a5d6-366d0c3447c8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : I don't think that's what Jasmine said at all. She said it gets harder to learn a new language the older you get. This is just a fact. Our brains gets more and more resistant to new information like this the older we get. That's science. Also, I'm going to Italy for six weeks this summer, and I don't speak Italian. I sure as hell hope there are people over there in the hospitals who speak English, because if I get clocked on the head and robbed in Naples, I'm going to need some help.
    Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]
    Um...NO LUCK in a pharmacy when you're in semi anaphylactic shock. Luckily the name for whatever is in Benedryll is a universal name. Otherwise, I would have been SOL. I knew the language to a degree, but I was panicking. No one in there spoke English.
    "In the old days my ass would be in your back yard picking cotton, so excuse me if I don't put much stock in how f*cking awesome the old days were." -Nuggs
  • carrieoz_76carrieoz_76 member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited April 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:58e604cd-fcb3-4b74-8c6a-a9f16d0b4cb8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]Different people from all over the place joining together to become 1 nation. 1 nation with 1 language and 1 set of laws and values. Not requiring people to learn 1 language does nothing but segregate the country.
    Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
    We do not now, nor have we ever had, one official language.  We also don't have now, nor have we have had, just one set of laws (Alabama has different laws than Washington; the City of Seattle even has different laws than other cities in WA).  We certainly don't now, nor have we ever had, one set of values.  What that proves is that you actually don't need one language, set of laws and set of values to have a strong country.

    I'm pretty sure that the fine folks of Mobile, Alabama would not want Seattle's laws, and I certainly WOULDN'T want Arizona's new immigration law.  It's a good thing that we're allowed a little individuality.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:ce6dc775-32b5-4e34-b881-861b2e43a5fe">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Requiring that I know spanish to work at a lot of jobs, having somethings written exclusively in spanish, pressing 1 for english....It sounds like some catering is being done.
    Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]

    <div>And again, this really doesn't disrupt my life that much. </div>
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:9add35e6-c08e-4afe-a5d6-366d0c3447c8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : I don't think that's what Jasmine said at all. She said it gets harder to learn a new language the older you get. This is just a fact. Our brains gets more and more resistant to new information like this the older we get. That's science.<u> Also, I'm going to Italy for six weeks this summer, and I don't speak Italian. I sure as hell hope there are people over there in the hospitals who speak English, because if I get clocked on the head and robbed in Naples, I'm going to need some help.
    </u>Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]

    If we were talking about tourists that would be one thing.  But since we are talking about citizens and illegal immigrants, that comparison is not very relevant.  We spend alot of money in this country on translators.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:46a934aa-30b8-45f9-94a6-f86eec4502f7">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : I think we're ALL exempting grandma from this equation.
    Posted by louisvillebride21[/QUOTE]
    I certainly am.
    I do agree paperwork to immigrate to this country and probably all other government/ legal papers should be available if your native language. You girls have made a good point that even with being fluent in the language the legal paperwork could still be hard to get through.
    I still think though that everyone who immigrates here (except grandma) should learn english.
    In your hypothetical life in Sweden you would at least be trying to learn the language right? and when you went places and needed things, you would speak swedish, right? Would you get mad at me for not knowing english? Would you expect everything in the grocery store to be labeled in english?
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:ebc5e743-52ae-43d3-869a-8331a3bbd919">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE] I disagree that allowing immigrants to speak different languages creates segregation--it also <strong>promotes community involvement when people can actually communicate.  If not, people are just more isolated and underground.
    </strong>Posted by Moneypenny424[/QUOTE]

    I'm with you 100% on this, if you're saying what I think you're saying.  If they are bringing with them a culture of importance, I fully support them maintaining it in their home, in their community, etc.  It gives them meaning and normalcy in what can be I'm sure a very difficult time.

    But to choose to come here should equate, to me, a desire to incorporate aspects of American life, not least of all being able to speak the primary language here.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:712a2b49-c81d-4c15-8478-ad118435cc42">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : And again, this really doesn't disrupt my life that much. 
    Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

    Me neither. Getting upset over this has never crossed my mind.
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  • The Autism program I am working with will not accept any children over the age of 6. Ideally, intensive therapy starts around the age of 2. They have found that after 6, it is much more difficult and unlikely that the child will develop receptive and expressive language skills.
    I know that sounds like a non sequitor, but one's ability to learn language varies greatly from person to person. It simply isn't as easy as, "If you want to live here, learn the language."
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:712a2b49-c81d-4c15-8478-ad118435cc42">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : And again, this really doesn't disrupt my life that much. 
    Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]
    It disrupts mine when I can't get hired anywhere because I don't speak spanish.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:c95b7e77-e5e6-478d-8e7a-33aa48d2aef3">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : This is false. I'd like you to prove it. Seriously. People did not always learn the language when they immigrated. That's how you ended up with ethnic neighborhoods in major cities and whole towns and even states populated by certain ethnic groups. Do you think Norwegians sat around speaking to each other in English just because they were in America?
    Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

    Read my previous posts.  Did 100% of immigrants?  No.  And I disagree with your point that that is how we ended up with ethnic neighborhoods.  We had those neighborhoods because people helped each other come over and people wanted to be with their friends and family.  It wasn't because of a language barrier and it was in no way the determining factor. 

    I can prove it by getting my family on here if you'd believe it.  <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />

    If it's false then why do people speak English here?  That is a bit of a jump, I'll grant that.  But if people didn't learn the language it wouldn't be hard, especially in private schools, to speak only your "native" language. 
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  • In my imaginary Swedish life, I would be trying to learn. However, I am a college student, and I'm in the habit of studying and learning new things. Ask me 10 years after I am out of college, learning a new language may be much more daunting.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:9add35e6-c08e-4afe-a5d6-366d0c3447c8">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : I don't think that's what Jasmine said at all. She said it gets harder to learn a new language the older you get. This is just a fact. Our brains gets more and more resistant to new information like this the older we get. That's science. Also, I'm going to Italy for six weeks this summer, and I don't speak Italian. I sure as hell hope there are people over there in the hospitals who speak English, because if I get clocked on the head and robbed in Naples, I'm going to need some help.
    Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]


    Sarah, I carry a card with me that has my allergies, past surgeries and medications translated into French and Italian.  I also have the main ingredients of my OTC medications listed. 
    I live in HUGE tourist area and the bars speak english, but the pharmacies, nope, haven't found n english speaker there yet.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:29d10793-73d9-4409-929d-0ad5b15ccfd3">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]And guys, do you really want to go around emulating France? France has its own problems lately assimilating immigrants from North Africa, and I hear there are a lot of tensions there.
    Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]
    Yup.  Extensive race riots because they created a second class of immigrants who can not become full French citizens but who live and work there their whole lives.  You have to give people the hope that they will eventually be able to be full citizens in order for them to have an investment in the success or failure of the country (and thus not burn down whole sectios of cities).
  • Oh I'm sure there's nothing wrong with your values, and I wasn't aiming to be demeaning.  My apologies if it came off that way.

    I'm just wondering the significance of actual travel abroad in the formulation of opinions on this sort of topic.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:3bfc08b8-dc66-49d1-b6d4-bff1e3356fc2">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : Which means 90% doesnt speak spanish.
    Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>No, it means 90% doesn't speak Spanish exclusively.</div><div>
    </div><div><span style="color:#000000;font-family:'Times New Roman';line-height:normal;font-size:medium;" class="Apple-style-span"><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;">In Response to <a style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:normal;color:#1f1f1f;" href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:d2233741-eae6-4c13-9476-8ffc61a892c9">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : It really would not occur to me, no matter what kind of person I was, that I would be given the same opportunities if I did not know a language.<strong>  I would not enter any country and, upon arrival, want the world at my fingertips with no work to earn it.</strong>
    Posted by kate51485[/QUOTE]
    </div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;">
    </div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;">I really doubt this is the case. Government documents supplied to citizens so they can read them hardly equals the world at your fingertips. </div></span>
    </div>
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:ab8f8d8b-ea91-43ac-bb76-b0b1473a0867">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : While I (clearly) strongly disagree with a lot of stuff in this thread I still like everyone here and feel this is a good debate. <strong>Some debates here get ridiculous but this one so far has been reasonable.</strong>
    Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely! It's been very mature and informative!
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  • carrieoz_76carrieoz_76 member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited April 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:ab8f8d8b-ea91-43ac-bb76-b0b1473a0867">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : While I (clearly) strongly disagree with a lot of stuff in this thread I still like everyone here and feel this is a good debate. Some debates here get ridiculous but this one so far has been reasonable.
    Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]
    Agreed.

    I also find it encouraging that we were able to talk about this calmly, while the political discourse on this and the immigration issue in general is beyond embarassing - pathetic and disgusting, for the most part.
  • I didn't take it that way at all Kate. I'm just aware that I don't have much "life experience" to add to these conversations.
    You raise a good point. I wonder what Amoro would say on the subject. I have no idea if she is fluent in Italian.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:9b13ee6d-f6f0-49d1-8c75-07aa735a904a">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : 10% is nothing to sneeze at!  You don't see any politicians openly discriminating against Jews.
    Posted by lharri12[/QUOTE]

    So because 10% does not speak english we should make the rest of the country learn spanish to cater to them?  Im confused.
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  • It can get frustrating to not understand people sometimes, but I feel worse for them than I do for myself.

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  • No, I didn't say that at all.  I was just saying that 10% is not a small minority.

    And did you know that 75% of statistics are made up on the spot?  (Now I'm just kidding.)
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_want-live-here-learn-english?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:cc8588ae-4829-4b26-9627-fe14981c2996Post:250a6412-c301-49cc-a6d5-ea9bfcfbab20">Re: "If you want to live here, learn English"</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "If you want to live here, learn English" : So because 10% does not speak english we should make the rest of the country learn spanish to cater to them?  Im confused.
    Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

    <div>Who here is arguing that? I've never seen anyone say that, politician or not.</div>
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  • Carrie, I do agree with those points.  I think that unfortunately, the attitude of even a few people who do not want to learn, can really tarnish the overall impression of their larger group.  But this of course also applies to people on both sides of the story, which I acknowledge as well.

  • edited April 2010
    I think that maybe she means that the 10% is enough to effect our economy and our work force, and thus should be taken into consideration.

    Well, I am off to bed. This has been a great talk ladies. Thanks!
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