Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?

cengle

Let's have a discussion, because I don't want to study. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-sorkin/sarah-palin-killing-animals_b_793600.html?ref=fb&src=sp#sb=266225,b=facebook

Thoughts? 

danieliza1127

I don't get that viewpoint.  So it's only okay to eat meat that was raised by someone else and killed in a slaughterhouse?  It's not okay to hunt it and use all the parts of it for food and skin and leather?  I disagree.  That's not even logical.

crfische

I refuse to read anything related to Sarah Palin. Mostly, because I cannot do so without bias because I really don't like her. At all. Atallatall.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, if I don't read about her, I'm not educating myself, but I've read enough on her and about her to know that I don't want to read any more.

danieliza1127

Fische, the article is someone against her, not for her, and it's more about whether hunting is okay or not.

Beachy730

I think that writer is a douche.  Does he write about all the hunting and fishing shows on TV that also kill animals?

I am strongly against animal violence and I will cry over an animal dying in a movie way before I will cry over a person dying.  I don't like hunting, will never do it myself, and hope that H doesn't decide to become a hunter someday.  But my dad is one, as are almost all of my uncles and every other man in my family.  I used to yell at all of them for killing animals, until it was explained to me that hunting is absolutely needed for the population control of certain animals.  

They aren't inhumane, they make sure that it is killed and try to not make it suffer.  I like to think that the animal dies instantly.  In my hometown you can always tell when deer season is getting close because there are deer all over the thruways at night.  If they aren't hunted, they run into the roads, where cars hit them or cause accidents avoiding them.  People have been killed when they hit bucks if the antlers have gone through the windshield, and moose (mooses? meese?) are even bigger and cause more damage and death.  

I'm not a hunter by any means, and don't like to think of someone I know personally killing the animal I'm eating, but hunting is actually really necessary.

FutureMrsTR

My favorite part is where he compares hunting to Michael Vick.  And I'm not a fan of hunting, but I know I don't really have much of a leg to stand on since I eat meat that's been killed by someone else.

mica178

I don't watch Palin's show, but unless she was particularly cruel in the way she killed the caribou, I don't see the problem.  I don't like Sarah Palin, and I refuse to watch her show, but I don't get what's Aaron Sorkin's problem is either.

crfische

I'm torn. I'm for hunting and against Sarah Palin. IM SO CONFUSED.

Beachy730

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:ee71a9d1-cf82-4455-87be-a8fa6040e853">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm torn. I'm for hunting and against Sarah Palin. IM SO CONFUSED.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

<div>Awww, you have something in common with her.  You guys are bosom buddies!</div>

The Mel and Todd Show

I don't think his point was that hunting is bad.  His point was that hunting for the joy of killing, coupled with the knowledge that said killing would result in controversy and possible political gain, is douchey.  And on this, I agree.  If you are comfortable killing your food and clothing, more power to you.  I have no problem with you.  Killing for the joy of killing?  You're a douche.  (This is where the Michael Vick comparison becomes valid, as well).  "Sport" should not result in the death of another living thing.  Dog fighting is a game, a sport for the spectators, and it results in the death of another living thing.  Hunting results in the death of another living thing, and when hunting for sport alone, the only result is death.  I think that's a fair comparison.  Hunting for food/clothing/shelter may contain the same aspects of the sport, but the end result is to feed/clothe/shelter oneself and one's family.  These are entirely different animals.  In the article, he's pointing out that Palin did this bit of hunting for sport and publicity, and this therefore makes her a self righteous cuunt  (I editorialized a bit at the end there, but the sentiment is the same). 

ETA- I can't bring myself to watch this program, so I don't know if she "used" the animal, but my impression from what was written was that she did not.  If I see her walking around in a caribou lined coat and eating caribou jerky, I would not care that she killed the animal.  I would still be irritated that she did it to gain publicity, however, and also just generally irritated by her existence. 

mica178

Did anyone see the episode he's referring to?  Did she just hunt the moose and leave it on the side of the road, or did she have the intention of eating it?

I don't know a ton of hunters, but the ones I know eat what they hunt.  I had a friend who did not eat pork, so he would not hunt for wild boar.  He only hunted what he was willing to eat.  I think that kind of hunting is fine.  And there is sport to it, but again, it fulfills a functional purpose.  Not everyone is a good hunter, there are skills involved, and for the unskilled and/or squeamish ones, they have to go to the store to buy meat.

Beachy730

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to hunt an animal and then just leave it.  Unless it's only in NY, you are given a certain number of tags per season, which I think is 2, and you have to tag the deer after you kill it.  Not everyone takes them though, and there are always other hunters willing to take yours if you don't want it.  My dad has gone hunting with the same group of guys since before he and my mom got married, and my dad hasn't brought a deer home with him since I was little.  He either leaves it with his friend who owns the cabin, or he gives it to someone else.  So he definitely only hunts for the sport of it, but someone else is getting the food from it.  And as far as I know with every animal getting killed someone is getting the food from it.

cengle

I can see both sides here.  I think my opinion wagers a bit on whether or not she actually used any of the animal she killed; I would assume that she and her family would eat the meat, but I guess I really don't know. If she killed it just for the sake of killing it, yeah, she sucks (well, she sucks for other reasons, but that's another story for another day...).  If she's like those people who hunt big game just for the sake of killing it and putting their carcasses in their house, then I think that's douchey.

But most people who hunt don't just do it for the meat--they enjoy it. 

I don't watch her show, so my opinion on this particular matter is somewhat uneducated. 

mica178

I wonder if Sorkin has the same visceral feeling about people who fish.

musicalsunlight

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:2a970ce8-6ee1-4430-90a5-7104b4d79882">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get that viewpoint.  So it's only okay to eat meat that was raised by someone else and killed in a slaughterhouse?  It's not okay to hunt it and use all the parts of it for food and skin and leather?  I disagree.  That's not even logical.
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]


THIS. Also, that writer is seriously deranged if he thinks hunters (and even though I don't support Palin, I'll include her in this too because I have no reason to believe otherwise) kill solely for the joy of killing. My family, FI's family, and FI himself are all avid hunters. I've come along for several hunting trips but never hunted myself. I've helped gut and butcher a deer with my FI and then ate the meat we got from the deer. I know for a fact that MOST hunters either eat the meat they shoot or sell/give it to people who will. Of course there is the competitiveness with respect to the racks on bucks, but that doesn't mean they just take the antlers and throw the rest out. As PP's said, most hunters are careful to shoot to kill and not injure, and aim to make sure the death is quick. I know that my FI and other relatives are disgusted by poachers and the like that get on the news now and then for killing too many deer, etc. People like that are who give hunters a bad name. Even my dad, who is what I would call a "semi" vegetarian, that is, he only eats organic meat, supports hunting and loves to eat venison every year. 

Another PP mentioned the necessity of hunting to control populations. That is definitely true and considering I already drive around scared to hit a deer, it's at least a little comfort knowing that the population is controlled in a minor way. This article makes me sad that so many people view hunters as inhumane when really they are doing the same thing as a slaughterhouse farmer, in most respects.

The Mel and Todd Show

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:4f98aaa2-d501-49df-bedf-a57a5a0c91f1">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT? : But I guess my point is, how exactly does he "know" that she is hunting for sport? It's not as though she shot the caribou and left it there, having had the "joy" of killing an animal. She/the crew dressed it properly, and took it "home". So why is that sport?
Posted by mrs.jesse[/QUOTE]

*Shrugs* I don't know. I don't watch the show.  The impression I got from the article was that the kill was pure sport, and I find that awful.  I feel like there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who would kill just for the sake of killing.  My apologies to the hunters who take issue with that, but the part of my brain that wants to kill must be missing.  I want to cuddle.  Not kill. 

musicalsunlight

I just did a little research and learned that from what the episode shows, it is clear that the crew/Sarah cleaned up the caribou and brought it home to store meat in their freezer.

cengle

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:ee23eba9-5fb1-4657-acd3-f2acefcadb69">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]I just did a little research and learned that from what the episode shows, it is clear that the crew/Sarah cleaned up the caribou and brought it home to store meat in their freezer.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]

If that is the case, then yeah, the article was kind of ridiculous. I mean, I'm all about hating on Sarah Palin, but it seems like there are better ways to do so.

musicalsunlight

cengle- Agreed. I can see why it may be annoying that she (most likely) staged the actual kill shot of the caribou, but regardless, it's rather obvious that she grew up hunting (I know a few people from Alaska and they said it was the main activity growing up) and this wasn't just a random thing that she decided to try just for publicity.

SheenaNash1

Sarah Palin is a nut job and anything written about her and exposing her for what she is is fine by me! The point he was trying to make was that she was not killing the moose for food, hence we people who eat meat are different from her. She was killing it for publicity, attention and to rile people up and probably to get her name in the news...again. She shot and killed animal for herself. she's disgusting.

TheCranberry

I think he's being hypocritical and sanctimonious.  Does he think the slaughterhouse workers shed a tear for every cow, pig or chicken they slaughter?  I didn't see the episode he's talking about, but I find it hard to believe that it portrayed Palin as this bloodthirsty killer out for fun.  Did anyone else see it?  Did the animal suffer?  Did she kill it in a way that it would not die quickly/painlessly? 

The contrast he's making between him eating meat that someone else killed for him and her eating meat that she killed for herself is ridiculous.  The fact that someone gets pleasure out of killing an animal that they will then use for food (either themselves or by selling it) does not make it inherently bad.  If he were out campaigning against slaughterhouses or eating meat generally I might take him more seriously.

Also, people like Sorkin are usually the same ones who champion organic meat and free range chickens.  Couldn't you use the same argument to support Palin?  She's eating meat that wasn't fed artificial food, antibiotics, hormones, etc, and the animal lived a happier life not caged in a huge warehouse where it was waiting to die.

I am seriously hating this MoFo for making me defend Palin.

musicalsunlight

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:64f8684c-3f70-4ffc-8a21-e0bdabd3047d">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]Sarah Palin is a nut job and anything written about her and exposing her for what she is is fine by me! The point he was trying to make was that she was not killing the moose for food, hence we people who eat meat are different from her. She was killing it for publicity, attention and to rile people up and probably to get her name in the news...again. She shot and killed animal for herself. she's disgusting.
Posted by SheenaNash1[/QUOTE]


She did kill the CARIBOU (not moose, that was Sorkin's ignorance&mistake) for the food. They packaged the meat and put it in a freezer. I don't argue that she likely had ideas of publicity in mind for her show but I do not believe that it was her prime motivation for hunting in general. Plenty of reality stars do weirder things as stunts on their respective shows that they have never done before and now do for the publicity. At least Palin did something she was experienced in and has done for most of her life. (Again, kinda sad I'm defending Palin on this one).

Beachy730

How does her killing a Caribou on her show mean that she was killing it for publicity?  When they show her cooking dinner, is that for publicity?  When she brushes her teeth, is that for publicity?  I don't really care either way about Sarah Palin, and I've only watched about 20 minutes of one episode, but it's a reality show about her life.  So if she normally hunts, then how does her doing it on the show mean she is just doing it for publicity? 

cengle

Oh Sarah Palin is definitely a big ol' attention whore, which is one of the many reasons she annoys me to death.  I think the fact that she has HER OWN REALITY SHOW is enough evidence of that.  So I think the guy's article, saying how she only did this for publicity, is kind of a big fat Duh.  Everything she does is for publicity. 
But I also hate 99% of all reality TV, so there's that. 

Beachy730

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:6c4f3809-2683-4868-a05b-032c16325e10">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh Sarah Palin is definitely a big ol' attention whore, which is one of the many reasons she annoys me to death.  I think the fact that she has HER OWN REALITY SHOW is enough evidence of that.  So I think the guy's article, saying how she only did this for publicity, is kind of a big fat Duh.  Everything she does is for publicity.  But I also hate 99% of all reality TV, so there's that. 
Posted by cengle[/QUOTE]

And I totally agree with this.  The show itself is definitely for publicity.  it doesn't meant that everything she does in it is simply for publicity. 

The Mel and Todd Show

In no way do I believe that the caribou in question would have died by the hand of Sarah Palin on this day if there hadn't been a film crew present.  That is enough for me to not be okay with it.  She killed an animal for the sake of a television program, and I don't like that at all.  I don't think it even needs to be about hunting, how to do it right, the motivations behind others who do it...this comes down to her killing something to make her program entertaining and to garner attention for the program and, ultimately, for herself.  And to me that is distasteful, at best. 

golden1215

I think it was for publicity (even if she does eat it) but, as much as I hate her, so what?  Don't all politicians... or aspiring ones, do things for publicity? 

I dont like hunting because I like to be emotionally detached from my food, but I dont think hunting is the same as dog fighting.  If the animal being hunted was not tortured then its not cruel in my book.

The Mel and Todd Show

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:bd1a5572-55c0-4ec8-b1b4-fd2923644286">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]How does her killing a Caribou on her show mean that she was killing it for publicity?  When they show her cooking dinner, is that for publicity?  When she brushes her teeth, is that for publicity?  I don't really care either way about Sarah Palin, and I've only watched about 20 minutes of one episode, but it's a reality show about her life.  So if she normally hunts, then how does her doing it on the show mean she is just doing it for publicity? 
Posted by dnbeach12[/QUOTE]

Okay.  Here's how I see it, and I understand that I'm in the minority.  I'm okay with that, and I'm not sitting here with some unchangeable opinion...just so far, nothing has changed it. 

I walk into the street wearing a "Mel in 12!" sandwichboard.  When a crowd gathers, I pull a gun out and shoot a deer in the face.  Did I kill that deer because I needed food, or because I wanted to bring attention to me and my cause?  Maybe I've been hunting all my life, and maybe I will eat every last piece of that deer. It doesn't change the fact that I waited for a crowd before I did it so that I was certain to be able to promote my agenda.  If I invited the crowd back to my house to watch me play Pictionary with my family while I said cute things like "oh, you betcha" I'm still promoting my agenda by letting them see the softer side of me as mother and wife. 

Calypso1977

it seems like people hate Palin even more than they hated Bush.  anyone care to list a few reasons (legitimate) why they dont like her?  i read her book and it seems like she did a lot of great things for Alaska and put up with a lot of crap from McCain's campaign folks.

opalsky007

Well, I have a lot of reasons not to like her, but first, and worst in my mind is that she quit. She was entrusted by the people of Alaska with the responsibilities to be their governor, and couldn't even be bothered to finish her term. And she wants to be president?

Yeaheffinright.

Even if I agreed with her politics or liked her as a person, I will not vote for someone who's going to peace out at the first sign of trouble or continually blame others for her own problems.

NatandIsaac

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_interesting-strongly-worded-article-wdyt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d310e2fc-9814-4075-9b70-014b25f24735Post:403e2450-3bfd-478c-af55-7d1bc143b141">Re: Interesting (and strongly worded) article: WDYT?</a>:
[QUOTE]it seems like people hate Palin even more than they hated Bush.  anyone care to list a few reasons (legitimate) why they dont like her?  i read her book and it seems like she did a lot of great things for Alaska and put up with a lot of crap from McCain's campaign folks.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

<div>I don't "hate" Palin; I just wouldn't vote for her. For the exact same reasons that choose not to vote for half the people on my ballot, because she doesn't share my political beliefs. That's not legitimate?</div>