Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?

goheels05

Also, while I haven't read the whole bill either, I have read enough to know that it doesn't include the public option.  All it does is mandate that you go buy insurance.  That's why I'm saying those other issues need to be addressed first.

betrothed123

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:e3f82c8f-28ec-4d9f-bf63-ca8bc712111d">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah, what I'm saying is, the health care bill needs to be addressing THOSE issues before making people buy insurance.  They are putting the cart before the horse by saying "you must buy this health insurance even though it's broken.  We'll fix it later."  It should be the other way around. 
Posted by goheels05[/QUOTE]
Exactly.  A good bill would have at least made some attempts at solving the core problems.

maggyruth

I'm sorry, we were talking about the health care bill.  Health care isn't expensive because greedy doctors are padding their wallets.  Health care is expensive for a lot of reasons: 1.  Malpractice insurance But why is this?
Because Americans are sue happy and unwilling to accept the fact that sometimes, things don't turn out the way you hoped.

2.  People going to the ER for non-emergencies Again, why are people going to the ER? Perhaps it is because they don't have insurance, and thus do not have a primary care doctor (but, I agree with you)

This is why there are urgent care clinics.  Going to the ER for an ear infection (yes, it's done) does not an emergency make.  I was without insurance for a month and came down with a wicked case of bronchitis...I didn't go to the ER, I went to an urgent care clinic, and made sure they knew that I was without insurance at that time. They discounted my rate and helped me make payment plans.  And gave me samples of the meds I needed.

3.  Unnecessary procedures being pushed on people who have insurance  I definitely agree with this...but again, why is this happening if someone out there isn't itching for a payout?


Again, Americans are sue happy, and frankly, spoiled.  This also ties into the doctor's liablity and feeling as though they have to order every test in the books in order to cover their asses so they don't get sued somewhere down the line.

Stupid quote function wouldn't work for a quote of a quote...sorry for the funky formatting.

andyandhillary

Amen, Heels!  AMEN.

That mom with 4 kids working a cash register?  That is a result of choices all made by her.  No matter how your life starts, no matter what happens to you, every moment of every day you make choices to be different if you want to be.  And don't tell me that not everyone can be.  I'm sorry if you don't believe in other people.  That's a hell of a depressing way to go through life. 

SarahSmile23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:3f2aac9d-1623-420f-b8e4-2784a24f6561">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : I am this person. My job doesn't offer insurance (shitty on their part) and I can't really afford private insurance and I make just too much to qualify for medicaid. It doesn't matter, I don't think this is the solution. Rach- exactly. I am also not an expert on the matter but I'm entitled to my opinion on it. (That came off rude, I don't mean it like that)
Posted by nda_roxybabe[/QUOTE]
i know i am late and am just skimming through this (and realizing how much i love a few of you ladies--laurenclaire, andyandhilary, and co., high fives to you!) and i was wondering if you had actually obtained price quotes for private insurance, roxy. i know it's not as great as the coverage you could get if your employer covered you, but i was only paying $130/mo for my private plan. i had it for a few years and only switched to my husband's insurance in December. i wanted to help you try to find one you can afford, so PM if you want information on the plan i used! :) even if you just get the lowest coverage private plan possible, it will still help protect you from going into debt from an unexpected injury.

ggmae

Rach - I have just had the opportunity to skim a bit through this thread. You said that no one can "put forth an educated opinion" because they haven't read the entire bill (I read that it was actually 2700 pages in length.)

I am not sure if this was already mentioned, but I highly doubt that all of the individuals who voted on the bill (one way or the other) actually read it. They were only presented with it a few days before voting, which is complete crap - there is no way they could have gotten through ~2000 pages in a few days.

The American people have entrusted these individuals with the responsibility of making a decision with our best interest at heart, and they didn't even read it.  And it passed. That's scary shiit right there.

RachNRich

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:b42ca2a0-15a1-47f9-b747-8f11b8c5040e">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : oh, ffs, i don't think i am going to make it all the way through this thread unless people get off their high horses and quit pretending like people shouldn't consider potential income when they select their careers. doctors have very stressful high-liability jobs and have to go through very difficult and expensive schooling. why SHOULDN'T they be rewarded financially?  every time the attorney knotties bitch on here about how much money they make nobody responds and tells them that they should deal with their student loan debt and that they should have only chosen those jobs to help people. get real and don't ever say that somebody who goes to school to learn a profession doesn't deserve to earn a profit. that's not partisan, that's common sense. i'm fairly sure that the majority of the knotties on this board work to make money and went to school to help them be successful in the future. are doctors no longer allowed to do the same?
Posted by SarahSmile23[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Maybe you should continue to read then, and that way you won't make craptastic comments like this.</div><div>
</div><div>I never said someone should be rewarded for their job. Everyone deserves to be paid for their jobs; you WILL NOT find a quote in this thread where I say otherwise. 

</div>

RachNRich

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:d2365033-1898-4158-9260-f670260407cd">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]Rach - I have just had the opportunity to skim a bit through this thread. You said that no one can "put forth an educated opinion" because they haven't read the entire bill (I read that it was actually 2700 pages in length.<strong>) I am not sure if this was already mentioned, but I highly doubt that all of the individuals who voted on the bill (one way or the other) actually read it. They were only presented with it a few days before voting, which is complete crap - there is no way they could have gotten through ~2000 pages in a few days. </strong>The American people have entrusted these individuals to make a decision with our best interest at heart, and they didn't even read it.  And it passed. That's scary shiit right there.
Posted by ggmae[/QUOTE]

<div>I don't know either--but, I'd probably say you are right, and that they didn't get to read it word for word. At the same time, I think they know more about it than me. After all, these people are elected officials; we, as citizens, elected them---so, if we don't like the job they are doing--well, we shall rally harder next election for better. </div><div>
</div><div>In the same breath, many bills pass. Many. Any, like I said early on in this thread, it's a damned it we damned it we don't situation. We'd be having a very similar conversation had this bill failed. </div>

tenofcups4me

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:615f4a20-9db2-46ba-a708-032268dc656d">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]SarahSmile, I agree. I said it more than once, in this thread and others, that private health care IS an option if you make it a priority. Posted by AlexiaANDRobert[/QUOTE]

No, it's not always an option. If you have certain pre-existing conditions, you can't get it no matter how much you're willing to pay.

I have a friend who had had breast cancer years earlier -- and was unable to get private insurance AT ANY PRICE several years later. And yes, health insurance was a large part of the reason why she and her live-in boyfriend actually got married.

I'm self-employed and so is Dh. I have no problem paying for my heath insuranace -- of course I expect to pay for my health insurance.

But I live in fear that I'll get some sort of illness and they'll drop me. And if that happens, I won't be able to get any other insurance to cover whatever already exists. As it is, my doctor thinks I might have fibromyalgia -- and I wouldn't go to the specialist for further evaluation because I couldn't have that in my medical records right now.

SarahSmile23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:868290a1-1d76-424e-ac8f-9cbdbfa47dcb">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : Maybe you should continue to read then, and that way you won't make craptastic comments like this. I never said someone should be rewarded for their job. Everyone deserves to be paid for their jobs; you WILL NOT find a quote in this thread where I say otherwise. 
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

my comment was spot-on. read your comments again. you were very sarcastic about a doctor wanting to repay student loans and make a profit. i'm not the only one who responded to you about that. you were rude to the knottie who stated that her husband needs to make enough money to pay off his medical school debt and told her that he should have picked his career for altruistic reasons and not financial ones. in my opinion, that wasn't fair.

"Thinking that the reason someone should be a doctor should have nothing to do with how quickly they can repay their student loans that THEY incurred? How wonderfully ethical of them; who cares about the actual job, so long as we can hike up the cost of something (let's be honest, a hospital stay should not cost that much---why the need for it to be then if not to pay the ridiculous mark up of insurance companies and doctors) and make a profit."

RachNRich

I'm not an idiot; I know what I wrote. And, I know why I wrote it. AND, I continued on to say that he is, as is every other individual, entitled to JUST compensation for his work. But to what point? 

Oh dear Sarah, have you ever been ill? Like seriously ill? Do you know what it's like to get those kind of bills? Do you know what it's like to not know how to cover them? I highly doubt it from the way you talk. 

Health care is prohibitively expensive. Because of everything that has transpired, from unnecessary lawsuits, and unnecessary trips to the ER---health care costs have sky rocketed. Any individual that puts themselves through med school hoping for a quick pay out is a sad person. Do they deserve to be paid? Hell yes. Do they deserve it more than anyone else? No. My husband spent as many years in grad school as a med student, earned a PhD, and doesn't walk around DEMANDING his students fork over money to pay off his debt. That's ridiculous. 

ggmae

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:b4be9bde-8fca-4bf9-988f-4ef2c21266a4">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : I don't know either--but, I'd probably say you are right, and that they didn't get to read it word for word. At the same time, I think they know more about it than me. After all, these people are elected officials; we, as citizens, elected them---so, if we don't like the job they are doing--well, we shall rally harder next election for better.  In the same breath, many bills pass. Many. Any, like I said early on in this thread, it's a damned it we damned it we don't situation. We'd be having a very similar conversation had this bill failed. 
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

I do understand what you are saying, but I'd appreciate it if all 400 and something of them read what they were voting on. Some may have, but if you handed me a 2000 page bill and told me to read it in less than a week, I'd ask you what the hell you were smoking. I do agree that it is a damned if we do, damned if we don't type of situation. Regardless of the outcome, people were still going to be pissed.

aggiebug

Rach I think the problem here is you think that Doctors make millions of dollars, when the reality is a large majority of them are middle class citizens with a HIGH debt load for many more years than most college grads. Yes maybe they reach upper middle class quicker than someone with a BS but they are not typically "rich"

THIS bill will eventually prevent them from ever coming out of debt.  All this is going to do is stop people from becoming doctors.   When in reality we need to be protecting our doctors from outrageous lawsuits, which will put drs back in the practice of doing good medicine instead of covering their asses, and paying their bills. 

RachNRich

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:b24cb8fb-c134-4f61-977f-eed3e3402ba5">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony? : I do understand what you are saying, but I'd appreciate it if all 400 and something of them read what they were voting on. Some may have, but if you handed me a 2000 page bill and told me to read it in less than a week, I'd ask you what the hell you were smoking. I do agree that it is a damned if we do, damned if we don't type of situation. Regardless of the outcome, people were still going to be pissed.
Posted by ggmae[/QUOTE]

<div>I just asked Rich about all this---and he said no Much like you hinted to) that a number of them don't read the bills. In fact, they don't even have to. BUT---he did indicate that those individuals that work closely with health care would most likely know this bill inside and out.</div><div>
</div><div>He made mention that this has come up before (the fact that the House, for instance, is given 48 hours to read a bill, a la health care bill), most noteably around the bills that came up after 9/11---and they were even large (20, 000 pages). I suppose that doesn't make it any better, know it has happened before on large scale issues....but then again, I will never begin to understand government---I'll just continue to ask Rich to explain it to me.</div>

RachNRich

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:8859e2a1-e715-417f-a3ce-7872675bbe00">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]Rach I think the problem here is you think that Doctors make millions of dollars, when the reality is a large majority of them are middle class citizens with a HIGH debt load for many more years than most college grads. Yes maybe they reach upper middle class quicker than someone with a BS but they are not typically "rich" THIS bill will eventually prevent them from ever coming out of debt.  All this is going to do is stop people from becoming doctors.   <strong>When in reality we need to be protecting our doctors from outrageous lawsuits, which will put drs back in the practice of doing good medicine instead of covering their asses, and paying their bills. </strong>
Posted by aggiebug[/QUOTE]

<div>No, I don't think that all doctors are millionaires. I don't even think I insinuated that I thought that, so please--forgive me if that is the conclusion you have come to. </div><div>
</div><div>But, I did mention that I think there is a reason for the high cost of med school---there has long been an assumption that becoming a doctor is a lucrative career (same goes for lawyers). I believe the assumption carried over to predict that med schools could charge high tuitions, and students would continue to come through---knowing they'd recoup their costs (again, I think the same went for lawyers). I think it's a vicious cycle; high cost for tuition = great need for a large paycheck. </div><div>
</div><div> The OP that started this whole doctor conversation said: <span style="font-size:12px;" class="Apple-style-span">.<strong style="border-style:initial;border-color:initial;outline-width:0px;outline-style:initial;outline-color:initial;font-size:12px;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-attachment:initial;-webkit-background-clip:initial;-webkit-background-origin:initial;background-color:transparent;border-width:0px;padding:0px;margin:0px;"> My husband is a doctor. We want money for all his ridiculously hard work and to cover his debt.</strong> </span></div><div>The problem I had with this statement is the way she phrased is. She said "We want money." That makes me sick. We all want money. Every single person in this world wants money----had she approached it from a different standpoint and said "We want my husband to make a decent living to be able to pay off his debt, but may no longer be able to bring in the amount of money doctor's were once accustom to" ---- well, we'd be having a different discussion. </div><div>
</div><div>And? I couldn't agree more with the last part of your post. Could not agree more. </div>

SarahSmile23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:f268990c-5cb9-41ef-aa22-4e82b7e12335">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm not an idiot; I know what I wrote. And, I know why I wrote it. AND, I continued on to say that he is, as is every other individual, entitled to JUST compensation for his work. But to what point?  Oh dear Sarah, have you ever been ill? Like seriously ill? Do you know what it's like to get those kind of bills? Do you know what it's like to not know how to cover them? I highly doubt it from the way you talk.  Health care is prohibitively expensive. Because of everything that has transpired, from unnecessary lawsuits, and unnecessary trips to the ER---health care costs have sky rocketed. Any individual that puts themselves through med school hoping for a quick pay out is a sad person. Do they deserve to be paid? Hell yes. Do they deserve it more than anyone else? No. My husband spent as many years in grad school as a med student, earned a PhD, and doesn't walk around DEMANDING his students fork over money to pay off his debt. That's ridiculous. 
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

lol @ "dear sarah." rach, look. here's the problem. i feel like you are acting like you are the only person on here who knows about expensive medical bills. some of us may not talk about medical problems on here but that doesn't mean we don't have close friends and family who have been through similar problems.(for example, when my grandmother was diagnosed with t-cell lymphoma years back, it was extremely difficult for her and my grandfather financially.) i assume you understand that, but the way you just addressed me implied that if i don't livejournal my family's medical problems on tk i don't understand them. furthermore, just because someone does not like this current hc bill does not mean that they do not want hc reform or do not sympathize with people who have high hc bills. i know it may seem that way when we complain about aspects of the bill, but we do want reform.

anyway, what i said is that the people who treat you when you are going through those problems with your health and who are helping you to survive deserve to make a profit and pay off their student loans. i promise most doctors' take home pay is nowhere near what you think it is. to be fair, i used to think they made a lot of money, too, until i  became acquainted with a new doctor IRL. the problem with the other post of yours is that you implied that it was selfish for pp's husband to want to make enough money to pay off his student loans and THAT is what bothered people. if you did not mean it like that, i appreciate you clarifying it and saying that doctors DO deserve to make money.

as you stated, health care COSTS have sky-rocketed. and this bill does not address health care COSTS. i'm disappointed that Paul Ryan's bill did not receive more attention, because he had a great bill that WOULD have addressed the actual costs. i agree with the poster (heels?) who said Congress put the cart before the horse when they shoved this plan through.

RachNRich

I asked if you, personally, had ever been seriously sick. It's a bit different when it's you (I use the word "you" to mean well, anyone reading this)--the shock that you deal with when you get the bill---as opposed to watching a loved one struggle financially with health costs (albeit similar, I'm sure---but, everything a bit different when it's on an utmost personal level). 

I believe I have already clarified (and well before you made your post) that doctors, along side every.single.working.individual, deserve to make a living from their jobs. Are they entitled to a certain amount because of a chosen profession? I don't necessarily think that should be the case. I think it's too much of a gamble these days to put oneself in debt based on the assumption that they will be able to recoup the cost; it's really a gamble. As I mentioned in my last post, I wasn't at all peeved by the OP doctor-person for wanting her husband to "make a living," but that's not how she phrased it...she clearly stated "We Want Money." I think there is a big difference between wanting money, and wanting to make a decent living. 

I don't know exactly what the bill addresses and what it does not--Like I said early on, I really only know the CN's of the bill. But, I can't help but think that the COSTs of health care will begin to go down over time because of these changes. I could be wrong, but--I suppose that's just how I see it.

You and I agree on more than you might think. I actually DO pay 25% of my income in health insurance. Perhaps a little more; I've not sat down to do the math. And, I wouldn't think twice about doing it. I'd gladly pay for health insurance than buy a new car, new tv, or even a new house. 

smokeybailey

All I know is that I was denied private coverage because of a broken wrist.  Yes, that was my pre-existing condition. 

I didn't read this whole thing, but I'm sorry that I cannot agree with anyone who thinks that it is okay that people go into bankruptcy over medical bills, be denied coverage, exceed their lifetime benefits and be told too bad for you, have children that aren't covered because of preexisting conditions, etc.

If I have four kids and we are tooling along life quite fine and then DHL decides to close the facility in the town in which I live and I lose my job after, let's say, 10 years, is it right that now I am uninsured and my kids are without medical care because I can't get it?  When I try to get private insurance, I can't because my kid has some sickness?  What happens to these families?  They have to decide between food and medical care.  They don't take their kids with colds/flu to the doctor because that is $100 that they don't have.  They wait until it develops into pneumonia or something worse then hit the emergency room.  Those are the people that need help.   

No plan is perfect and this one is not without flaws but it is one step closer to helping our country be stronger and healthier.  I could go on and on but I am leaving work now. And by the way, I probably don't make enough money to be affected by this from a tax perspective BUT I would gladly pay an additional 1% of my income for this.  I think that all of those corporations that have built their wealth on the backs of the poor and middle class, by all means, should be paying in.   Don't get me started on Walmart.  However, I will put my money where my mouth is.

SarahSmile23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_anyone-else-watching-signing-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:d50fa7cd-f133-4de1-a0c2-ad26cd70957cPost:c7cfb84b-55d4-4ce0-b52e-c3c9a4732ba0">Re: Anyone else watching the Signing Ceremony?</a>:
[QUOTE] I didn't read this whole thing, but I'm sorry that I cannot agree with anyone who thinks that it is okay that people go into bankruptcy over medical bills, be denied coverage, exceed their lifetime benefits and be told too bad for you , have children that aren't covered because of preexisting conditions, etc. Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]
you should have read it, because nobody said they wanted anyone to be denied coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc! people who don't support this bill are not heartless. it's not that black and white. :)

goheels05

Smokey, I think everyone in this post can agree that we want pre-existing conditions covered.  It's the rest of the bill that's the problem.

Let's all read up on this bill so we can be on the same page with what we are arguing about.