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Unpopular Opinions?

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Re: Unpopular Opinions?

  • laurenclaire1386laurenclaire1386
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:e51eea19-e27e-4d10-8ae1-940c94858b45">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Marriage in our legal system is something that gives you benefits.  We give benefits to particular relationships because the majority wants people to enter into those relationships.  Those benefits are an incentive.  People do not have a "right" to the benefits you get by doing something if your not doing it.  It may be stupid that we want people to enter into agreements to care for each other only if they are two people of opposite sexes, but that doesn't mean I have a right to the incentives we give those people if I enter into an agreement with someone of the same sex, or with multiple people.  I get those benefits by doing what the majority wants.  The majority may be stupid, but that doesn't give me a right to the benefits I would get if I went along with them. 
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]
    So basically you're saying that the marriage laws are dumb? And that same sex marriages aren't entitled to the same benefits because the federal government has deemed same sex marriages invalid? I don't think anyone can argue those points, I mean, they're fact. However, that doesn't mean people should just stop caring about same sex marriage because the federal government doesn't recognize it.
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  • salt78salt78 member
    First Comment
    What am I doing wrong here? I just read that 4 times and I still don't get it. And now I feel conflicted because I don't know whether or not I want to argue with her.
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  • FutureMrsTRFutureMrsTR
    First Comment First Anniversary
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:e51eea19-e27e-4d10-8ae1-940c94858b45">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Marriage in our legal system is something that gives you benefits.  <strong>Yes, I'm following you.  </strong>We give benefits to particular relationships because the majority wants people to enter into those relationships.  Those benefits are an incentive.  <strong>The government wants people to get married...ok.  </strong>People do not have a "right" to the benefits you get by doing something if your not doing it.  <strong>Well, of course.  You don't get the benefits if you don't do it.  But gay people WANT to get married, they just CAN'T.  </strong>It may be stupid that we want people to enter into agreements to care for each other only if they are two people of opposite sexes, but that doesn't mean I have a right to the incentives we give those people if I enter into an agreement with someone of the same sex, or with multiple people.  <strong>This is where you lose me.  I just don't understand why you think the laws shouldn't be changed, if that's what you're saying. </strong> I get those benefits by doing what the majority wants.  The majority may be stupid, but that doesn't give me a right to the benefits I would get if I went along with them.  <strong>So you're saying that we should go along with the majority even if we disagree with it or it's wrong or stupid?  I'm geniunely confused, not trying to be argumentative.</strong>
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]

    I tried to break it down and it didn't really help.
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  • opalsky007opalsky007 member
    Combo Breaker First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:e51eea19-e27e-4d10-8ae1-940c94858b45">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Marriage in our legal system is something that gives you benefits.  We give benefits to particular relationships because the majority wants people to enter into those relationships.  Those benefits are an incentive.  <strong>People do not have a "right" to the benefits you get by doing something if your not doing it.</strong>  It may be stupid that we want people to enter into agreements to care for each other only if they are two people of opposite sexes, but that doesn't mean I have a right to the incentives we give those people if I enter into an agreement with someone of the same sex, or with multiple people.  I get those benefits by doing what the majority wants.  The majority may be stupid, but that doesn't give me a right to the benefits I would get if I went along with them. 
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]

    But what are we trying to incentivize exactly? Procreation? Then by your logic infertile couples don't have a right to be married. Hetero sex? Then by your logic couples not having sex don't have a right to be married.

    Unless we're up front about what behaviors we're trying to incentivize, and we check to make sure that we're successful at causing those activities (sex, procreation, or whatever), then where do we get off making gender a criterion in deciding who can get married?
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  • squirrlysquirrly member
    Name Dropper First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:e51eea19-e27e-4d10-8ae1-940c94858b45">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Marriage in our legal system is something that gives you benefits.  We give benefits to particular relationships because the majority wants people to enter into those relationships.  Those benefits are an incentive.  People do not have a "right" to the benefits you get by doing something if your not doing it.  It may be stupid that we want people to enter into agreements to care for each other only if they are two people of opposite sexes, but that doesn't mean I have a right to the incentives we give those people if I enter into an agreement with someone of the same sex, or with multiple people.  I get those benefits by doing what the majority wants.  The majority may be stupid, but that doesn't give me a right to the benefits I would get if I went along with them. 
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]

    You said the same thing in different words.  I'm looking for you to say more, to explain your position.

    Why do you believe people do not have a legitimate right to the legal considerations bestowed by marriage? 

    Please list the benefits you're referring to and why you don't have the right to have them. 
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  • KatyRoseMKatyRoseM member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    I agree people should care.  I just don't think its a right.  The only difference ends up being how you can fix the problem.
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  • marissa_clairemarissa_claire member
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:3bdeb7a7-e700-4f16-b640-b37655fe3a3c">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Unpopular Opinions? : I agree, with this largely, but I do think you can have those protections outside of marriage, you can do it through contract and estate law.  You can have a living will.  Those should be enforced more than they are (even for married couples) as I think you have a right to those contracts. 
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>See, but now there's almost a discrimination issue at hand because legally to get all of those rights set up is thousands upon thousands of dollars.  So if you're gay and poor.....aren't you then being denied even those legal rights to set up such contracts?

    </div>
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  • mkruparmkrupar member
    5 Love Its First Comment First Anniversary
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:c05a332e-2f63-46ec-8df6-69ff47a9c7a8">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]What am I doing wrong here? I just read that 4 times and I still don't get it. And now I feel conflicted because I don't know whether or not I want to argue with her.
    Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

    Salt don't feel bad, I'm in the same boat. I'm hoping Squirrly can sort it all out for us.
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  • FutureMrsTRFutureMrsTR
    First Comment First Anniversary
    So you think marriage isn't a right for anyone?  So it shouldn't matter if people are excluded for ridiculous reasons? 
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  • KatyRoseMKatyRoseM member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    Good point.  While there are free ways of setting up those contracts its much better if you have money.  I'll have to think about that.  Thanks.
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  • NuggetBrainNuggetBrain member
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:bfa09e43-50a0-493e-9815-11bb913d3014">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I agree people should care.  I just don't think its a right.  The only difference ends up being how you can fix the problem.
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]

    If you have such an issue with marriage and think it's basically dumb, then why the hell are you getting married.
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  • laurenclaire1386laurenclaire1386
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:bfa09e43-50a0-493e-9815-11bb913d3014">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I agree people should care. <strong> I just don't think its a right.</strong>  The only difference ends up being how you can fix the problem.
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]
    Please define "it." Marriage? Or same sex marriage?
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  • Y I OughtaY I Oughta member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:c05a332e-2f63-46ec-8df6-69ff47a9c7a8">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]What am I doing wrong here? I just read that 4 times and I still don't get it. And now I feel conflicted because I don't know whether or not I want to argue with her.
    Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

    I'm confused as well. I'm just glad I'm not the only one.
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  • KatyRoseMKatyRoseM member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:a438ef5a-65bd-4745-ac76-b59270040195">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]So you think marriage isn't a right for anyone?  So it shouldn't matter if people are excluded for ridiculous reasons? 
    Posted by FutureMrsTR[/QUOTE]

    No I don't think its a legal right for anyone.  It should matter why they are excluded, and we should change laws accordingly.  But if it is a right then we couldn't legally make those laws (at least in theory).  I believe we should change the laws because they are ridiculous, but the people had a right to make the ridiculous laws in the first place. 
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  • Meg1979Meg1979
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:c05a332e-2f63-46ec-8df6-69ff47a9c7a8">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]What am I doing wrong here? I just read that 4 times and I still don't get it. And now I feel conflicted because I don't know whether or not I want to argue with her.
    Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]


    No, I reread it, too and it's making my brain hurt.
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  • NuggetBrainNuggetBrain member
    First Comment

    I think that wishing someone a "Merry Christmas" is just fine.  I think that political correctness is starting to get stupid and overbearing when you have to worry about offending someone by being nice.

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  • KatyRoseMKatyRoseM member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    I don't think marriage is dumb, I think its dumb that the government is as involved in it as it is.  Also I want the benifits I get by conforming and having a legal marriage, they are nice benifits. 
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  • TurtlesAllTheWayDownTurtlesAllTheWayDown member
    First Comment Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    I don't necessarily disagree with TenofCups about the last name thing. I just think she worded her opinion poorly. Everyone has a choice and that's as it should be, but sometimes some choices are better than others, depending on your perspective.
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  • FutureMrsTRFutureMrsTR
    First Comment First Anniversary
    But it is a legal right.  For heterosexual couples, anyway.  The government has made it one.  You either have the right or you don't, I don't see how you can argue that it's not a right for anyone when it definitely is even though morally it's not fair for some people to have the right and some not to.
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  • AnysunriseAnysunrise member
    Combo Breaker First Comment

    I'm confused. I agree that marriage isn't a right, but are you saying that it is now and shouldn't be? Cause that's just wrong. If it was a right, EVERYONE would be entitled to it, and as anyone who is gay can tell you, it's not.

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  • MattsPenguinMattsPenguin member
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:957fc408-d1ed-46bb-b500-ebd17e1e5e9a">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't like colored Christmas lights or inflatables.  I don't like pretty much any beer unless it's a fruity lambic beer.  I hate the aftertaste.  I don't really like red wine much.  A few of them, but certainly not all. I hate Applebees.  Chili's I don't like but can tolerate on rare occasions.  I love Papa John's pizza and I hate it that we can't get it delivered to our house.  I don't give a rat's ass what John Calipari did or didn't do at previous schools.  He's UK's coach now, and I trust the university to manage him accordingly.  I'm THISCLOSE to telling my boss (and a few other people in the greater Boston area) to shut the eff up about it if they can't find SOMETHING nice to say.  I don't chase them down to smack talk their teams. Despite my love for UK, it does not extend to Boston's seemingly favorite UK alum, Rajon Rondo.  He's an AW and I am NOT a fan.
    Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

    Speaking of Boston sports, I really don't like the Patriots.  (especially Tom Brady's awful hair).

    I LOVE ME THE COLTS, THOUGH! 

    Rosie, I'm like you.  I will read how McD's food is so bad, it doesn't mold, etc., but then still eat it.  I'm a sucker for the nuggets with sweet and sour sauce.
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  • LessThanZeroLessThanZero
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:c05a332e-2f63-46ec-8df6-69ff47a9c7a8">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]What am I doing wrong here? I just read that 4 times and I still don't get it. And now I feel conflicted because I don't know whether or not I want to argue with her.
    Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]


    I know. I feel so crazy right now.
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  • NuggetBrainNuggetBrain member
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:b75c775d-e9bb-40a1-a8b4-10e2c06bb098">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't think marriage is dumb, I think its dumb that the government is as involved in it as it is.  Also I want the benifits I get by conforming and having a legal marriage, they are nice benifits. 
    Posted by KatyRoseM[/QUOTE]

    I don't understand.  How can the government not be involved.  How would people get married if every single person could pick a different way to get married and not have it reflected at a federal level? 
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  • opalsky007opalsky007 member
    Combo Breaker First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:76fa3711-25b6-472e-a1d4-e6e6f96f88ab">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Unpopular Opinions? :<strong> Speaking of Boston sports, I really don't like the Patriots.  (especially Tom Brady's awful hair). I LOVE ME THE COLTS, THOUGH!</strong>  Rosie, I'm like you.  I will read how McD's food is so bad, it doesn't mold, etc., but then still eat it.  I'm a sucker for the nuggets with sweet and sour sauce.
    Posted by MattsPenguin[/QUOTE]

    Oh hi there, other sane person in Boston. It is not always easy living here as a Colts fan.
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  • Y I OughtaY I Oughta member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:76fa3711-25b6-472e-a1d4-e6e6f96f88ab">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Unpopular Opinions? : Speaking of Boston sports, I really don't like the Patriots.  (especially Tom Brady's awful hair). I LOVE ME THE COLTS, THOUGH!  Rosie, I'm like you.  I will read how McD's food is so bad, <strong>it doesn't mold</strong>, etc., but then still eat it.  I'm a sucker for the nuggets with sweet and sour sauce.
    Posted by MattsPenguin[/QUOTE]

    Really, I might have to do a mold experiment with some McD's food.
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  • laurenclaire1386laurenclaire1386
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:657780a1-e991-4a92-bf31-424065556f55">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't necessarily disagree with TenofCups about the last name thing. I just think she worded her opinion poorly. Everyone has a choice and that's as it should be, but sometimes some choices are better than others, depending on your perspective.
    Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]
    This is so ambiguous. What, exactly, do you mean? Of course some choices are better than others, depending on your perspective. Making a judgment about a woman's intelligence or character based on her decision to change or not change her last name is not ever a good choice, IMO.
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  • KatyRoseMKatyRoseM member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    How is it a right?  Its a contractual obligation you enter into with a person of the opposite sex (in most states) and the government.  If it was a right everyone would have to have it, yes.  I just don't think it is.
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  • MattsPenguinMattsPenguin member
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-11?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:f430863b-09d0-40eb-ac0a-aa71ff5037d7Post:39fecc8c-d2a3-4475-b323-3ef5c4e91d0a">Re: Unpopular Opinions?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Unpopular Opinions? : Oh hi there, other sane person in Boston. It is not always easy living here as a Colts fan.
    Posted by opalsky007[/QUOTE]

    I loved it last year when the Colts beat them and everyone was sad in my office.  I had a big smile on my face!

    ETA: Oh yeah, Opal, you went to UT, right?  I was trying to figure out why you might like the Colts.  FI grew up in Knoxville, and also LOVES Peyton!
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  • squirrlysquirrly member
    Name Dropper First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    Katy, please be specific.  You really aren't coming across clearly.

    What are the rights, exactly, in excruciating detail, that are being bestowed improperly?  What is it that you think should happen instead?
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  • NuggetBrainNuggetBrain member
    First Comment
    All I know is I'm fairly sure that if they suddenly passed a law that said Katy and her FI can't get married because (insert stupid, unchangeable thing here like he's a natural blond and you're a natural redhead) she'd be the first to start getting up in arms about her right as a US citizen to get married.
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