Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day

QueerFemme

This appeared on my newsfeed on FB this morning... It broke my heart... and this stuff is happening allllll over the place.  

When a hospital complies with a hateful family, it can take precious time to legally challenge and in that time, your partner could die without you there.  Having the proper paperwork doesn't work in the heat of the moment.   

http://gawker.com/5994390/gay-man-escorted-out-of-missouri-hospital-in-handcuffs-for-refusing-to-leave-sick-partners-side

AddieCake

So sad. 

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:29cb590f-d6bb-422a-89a9-43045f832a4f">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]The fact that a police officer would respond to a call like this at all, and then escort this man from his partner's deathbed in handcuffs just makes my stomach turn. I pray that, in our lifetimes, we see the day where this never happens.
Posted by TheMissusLia[/QUOTE]

the thing is, since the family asked for him to be removed, and he refused, as far as the hospital was concerned, he was causing a disturbance in a hospital.  The police would have no choice to remove him, because he doesn't have any legal rights in that hospital and the family wanted him gone.

I just hope if I get sick, my family doesn't find out somehow.

rajahmd

Aw, that's really sad.  I really feel for the people that have to deal with this.  And I also feel for the hospital.  Unfortunately, they have to follow the law, so if some bigoted family gets lawful papers overturned, they get stuck kicking out the partner when they may not want to.  Similar stuff happens with elderly people who don't have a spouse and they don't designate a POA.  It can be really frustrating for all parties involved.

MuppetFan

Would this be a 14th amendment violation? 

Straight couples wouldn't need to provide official documentation.

My friend was given time to produce power of attorney paperwork when her mother was rushed to the hospital. Same with my dad and his close friend (male) who my parents were taking care of when his health declined.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:24220e35-4874-4b61-a567-3c6523cf0b22">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Would this be a 14th amendment violation?  Straight couples wouldn't need to provide official documentation. My friend was given time to produce power of attorney paperwork when her mother was rushed to the hospital. Same with my dad and his close friend (male) who my parents were taking care of when his health declined.
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

It depends. Many states will still take the "next of kin" as the person with the most legal standing, even WITH a power of attorney.  The power of attorney can be easily legally challenged.  The thing is, if no one else is there to cause a fuss (like, in the case if your dad's friend), then the hospital won't say anything.

But, if all of the sudden someone had shown up saying they were a parent, child, spouse or other family member of your dad's friend, most likely the POA would have been secondary.

cwaggoner07

Serious question: Would a POA have helped them in this case?

Would it be a good idea for all married gay couples to get a POA for each other?

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but that makes sense in my head.

lyndausvi

That is really sad.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:200ebb2c-b3f4-4598-9a22-1fe69c848ac7">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Serious question: Would a POA have helped them in this case? Would it be a good idea for all married gay couples to get a POA for each other? I have no idea what I'm talking about, but that makes sense in my head.
Posted by cwaggoner07[/QUOTE]

They HAD a medical POA and were wed in a civil union, but the nurse was not willing to confirm it since the family was asking for him to be removed.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:200ebb2c-b3f4-4598-9a22-1fe69c848ac7">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Serious question: Would a POA have helped them in this case? Would it be a good idea for all married gay couples to get a POA for each other? I have no idea what I'm talking about, but that makes sense in my head.
Posted by cwaggoner07[/QUOTE]

And plusalso.  My partner and I have medical POA on each other, but if my family shows up in a hospital, they still will have access to me, against my will.  And, in the time that it will take for my partner to go to court and have a judge force the hospital to recognize the POA, I could be dead. 

Peaseblossom55

How sad and awful. 

KnotIrene

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:0c8948a2-c363-49f5-89fe-0a3e7152f1b8">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Howdy.  It's your residential old school conservative Catholic here. Stories like these tick me off.  My aunt is a lesbian & is currently battling breast cancer and had to be admitted to the hospital recently due to a persistent fever.  Her partner was there (and thankfully she is home and doing better).  There is no way in h-e-double-hockey sticks that my family & I would not let her be there with her.  I just wanted to share that there are some of us who have our reasons to oppose same sex marriage who can still recognize their partnership and see past our faith to be able to love in times like that. FWIW, people were surprised that I included my aunt's partner in my grandfather's obituary when I was listing his surviving children & their spouses. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

<div>I sure wish there were more people like you.  Somewhere inside I know this happens, but every time I actually think about it it just makes me cry.  It is so clearly wrong not to make the wishes of the ill person <strong>the</strong> overriding word.  Hopefully sometime soon it will be a non-issue. P.S.  I'm glad your aunt is doing better.</div>

cwaggoner07

cmg - Thanks for clearing that up. I am ashamedly naive about a lot of this stuff. Thanks also for teaching us about it, and how freaking unjust all this discrimination is.

I've learned so much from you.

And you're awesome.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:5a7ae488-2d6b-4dd3-a914-dfd43cdc8d99">Re:Follow up to the</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Follow up to the : Kristan, what you don't seem to get is that by opposing gay marriage, you are allowing this to happen. You are saying "my wholly religious reasons, which will in no way be affected by allowing this law to pass, are more important to me than the death and suffering of others." Sorry, but saying "golly gee wow, that sucks, and I personally would never do that" does NOT absolve you of protecting the people who DO do it and continuing to give them power.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I have had many conversations with Kristan about this and we are at major opposite ends of the spectrum religiously and politically. And while I appreciate that she included her aunt's partner and would never do the things that a lot of people do, it isn't enough.

It is perfectly acceptable to say "my religious beliefs don't allow me to support gay people, and in my religion it is an abomination and a huge sin".  I may not agree, but it's your religious beliefs and everyone is entitled to them. 

It's NOT perfectly acceptable to vote "no" on a law that would allow same sex marriage because it offends your religious beliefs. 

Religion should never be the reason someone denies someone else civil rights.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:8ae05370-1ae7-4b2c-aa0d-170b46adcd1a">Re:Follow up to the</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Follow up to the : I agree with this. I have had many conversations with Kristan about this and we are at major opposite ends of the spectrum religiously and politically. And while I appreciate that she included her aunt's partner and would never do the things that a lot of people do, it isn't enough. It is perfectly acceptable to say "my religious beliefs don't allow me to support gay people, and in my religion it is an abomination and a huge sin".  I may not agree, but it's your religious beliefs and everyone is entitled to them.  It's NOT perfectly acceptable to vote "no" on a law that would allow same sex marriage because it offends your religious beliefs.  Religion should never be the reason someone denies someone else civil rights.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>::golf clap::</div>

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:2713fcdb-da49-421f-8a62-b2a2cd2fb571">Re:Follow up to the</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Follow up to the : You know what, Stage?  I almost didn't comment because of people like you.  You like to attempt to silence anyone who has an opposing opinion with your bully nature.  This is crap.  If you want this to be the "let's all tell Stage that she is right and she is the queen of everything" page, then talk to Knot Irene or Jackie about how to make a separate wall. I am just being honest.  I have been candid about the fact that I struggle with balancing my personal faith about love and marriage along with what I believe to be just.  I think it is disgusting that a family takes it this far.  Do you think I like hearing news like this and how it portrays people who have similar beliefs as I do?!?!?! FWIW, I don't think that my faith is keeping this man from visiting his partner in the hospital.  It is hatred in people's hearts. <strong> Don't you DARE try to pin it on my faith</strong>.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

You know & I have had lots and lots of conversations, and I respect you so much for being willing to have those hard conversations, but I think this statement is really wrong. 

YOUR faith, as an individual, may not be causing hatred in your heart. But religion and faith in god, the church, etc. is used ALL the time as the reason people cannot support gay marriage  . When in fact, gay marriage has nothing to do with your religion or anyone elses.  Your church as a private institution is entitled not to perform gay marriages. Your church, religion or faith should not have a say in laws that are made to allow or deny a civil right.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:7fd9fc85-798d-4791-bcae-e14a90318c61">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]cmg - Thanks for clearing that up. I am ashamedly naive about a lot of this stuff. Thanks also for teaching us about it, and how freaking unjust all this discrimination is. I've learned so much from you. :) And you're awesome.
Posted by cwaggoner07[/QUOTE]

You are pretty awesome too Swag !    I am really open to lots of questions if anyone ever has them. I have done a lot of work for marriage equality and worked on the legal team for prop 8 and doing election protection.  I am not the expert on the matter, but I do have a lot of information, not only from working on it during the election, but from personal experience.

I don't speak to my family.  My partner and I have the same last name, we share a home, we have 4 friggin dogs and a cat, we have medical power of attorney on each other as well as naming each other as our sole beneficiary on our life insurance, etc.  But, if my family, who I have not spoken to in 3+ years show up, my partner will have a legal battle to deal with.  For the sole reason that neither of us have a permanently attached penis.

It's ridiculous.  So, if you, or anyone else has questions, I'm happy to answer them.

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:0c8948a2-c363-49f5-89fe-0a3e7152f1b8">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Howdy.  It's your residential old school conservative Catholic here. Stories like these tick me off.  My aunt is a lesbian & is currently battling breast cancer and had to be admitted to the hospital recently due to a persistent fever.  Her partner was there (and thankfully she is home and doing better).  There is no way in h-e-double-hockey sticks that my family & I would not let her be there with her.  I just wanted to share that there are some of us who have our reasons to oppose same sex marriage who can still recognize their partnership and see past our faith to be able to love in times like that. FWIW, people were surprised that I included my aunt's partner in my grandfather's obituary when I was listing his surviving children & their spouses. 
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Krsitan, not to be snotty but goody for you.  Your family is not how all react.  In case you didn't see it, please see my real life experience post on page one from the original thread. <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="Discussion_PostTable"><tbody><tr><td id="forumPostFormattedBody[12]" class="Discussion_PostTablePost"><div align="left">I was never against marriage equality.  I didn't become a strong supporter
though until I saw the neighbors of friends of mine have the last of their time
together destroyed by the family of the one who was dying.  They went to
court to have all of the end of life directives and medical power of attorney
nullified and then kept the partner of three decades out of the hospital room
because "he wasn't family."  They then went on to challenge the will, took
the house and all of the property because "it belonged to the family." 


This is why I get so freakin irate whenever someone says that gay
people can draw up paperwork to have all of the legal protections that a married
couple has.  They can....and then a court can take it all away.  That
cannot happen to a spouse.</div></td></tr></tbody></table><a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question_.0">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_political-question_.0</a>

MuppetFan

This thread was about a wrong done to a couple.

Kristan provided her point of view as a Catholic that was against the occurrence and shared her personal experience and now her religion and her morality are coming under scrutiny and attack.  She didn't disrespect anyone. This not right.

I understand that many of us are passionaltly pro-gay rights, butd our view does not justify outright bullying someone about their religion.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:aee11572-5b08-455a-b5ae-ccdd80059258">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]This thread was about a wrong done to a couple. Kristan provided her point of view as a Catholic that was against the occurrence and shared her personal experience and now her religion and her morality are coming under scrutiny and attack.  She didn't disrespect anyone. This not right. I understand that many of us are passionaltly pro-gay rights, butd our view does not justify outright bullying someone about their religion.
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

Muppet - I don't think anyone was bullying Kristan's religion. I do think they are questioning how anyone (including Kristan) think it's ok to use their religion as a basis for making a decision about legal rights/access.

FWIW.  I respect Kristan.  We have had lots of off TK conversations about this topic.  I DO have a hard time balancing my desire to understand and respect people's religious beliefs when they so adversely affect my own life and my legal rights. 

And, at the same time, I know that faith and religion are powerful pulls for some people.   Not me, but I get it.  I respect anyone that is willing to have dialogue about it.  It may never change her (or anyone else's) mind.  But, the dialogue is the only way anything ever changes.

AND, I appreciate that other people (Linger, Stage, etc.) are willing to call people out on what they see as bogus arguments.  I think using religion as a reason to deny my civil rights IS a bogus argument (and I have told Kristan that during our many conversations).  But, I'm still willing to have the conversation.

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:aee11572-5b08-455a-b5ae-ccdd80059258">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]This thread was about a wrong done to a couple. Kristan provided her point of view as a Catholic that was against the occurrence and shared her personal experience and now her religion and her morality are coming under scrutiny and attack.  She didn't disrespect anyone. This not right. I understand that many of us are passionaltly pro-gay rights, butd our view does not justify outright bullying someone about their religion.
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

Muppet - Kristan repeatedly uses her family situtation to justify her belief that marriage does not need to be recognized for gay couples to be protected so she can essentially keep believing that her personal faith is good for everyone in this country and that marriage between all couples should not have to be recognized.  She'll keep on believing this and people will continue disagreeing with her and questioning her stance - not her religion.  (and despite what some may believe, I am also a Catholic).

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:aee11572-5b08-455a-b5ae-ccdd80059258">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>This thread was about a wrong done to a couple</strong>. Kristan provided her point of view as a Catholic that was against the occurrence and shared her personal experience and now her religion and her morality are coming under scrutiny and attack.  She didn't disrespect anyone. This not right. I understand that many of us are passionaltly pro-gay rights, butd our view does not justify outright bullying someone about their religion.
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

Also... this thread was about that couple, but the point is, if they were legally married, this man's family wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.  So, it wasn't just about this couple being wronged.

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:e3d0055d-5e93-4231-b7da-f38935abd426">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : Also... this thread was about that couple, but the point is, if they were legally married, this man's family wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.  So, it wasn't just about this couple being wronged.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

Also - see my first post in this thread for supporting documentation that this is not an isolated incident.

MuppetFan

I understand why equality is important. I don't need to be convinced. That's not my issue here.

This is not a respectful discussion about religion. This is one person getting picked out in a discussion and tag teamed for her religious beliefs. This is wrong.

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:0ccbbfc3-f197-430e-96eb-d7dc08580e93">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : That's fine.  Your views disgust me so I'd rather not bother reading your excuses for it anyway. <strong>Cmg- You are a class act.
</strong>Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]

I am gonna have this put on a tshirt that says "Linger said so". 

QueerFemme

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:3f3aea32-2b26-428d-a31b-52b2298dea42">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : You might not want to advertise that fact ;) I'm just going to put this here.  If name calling was okay around here most of my responses would probably just be quotes followed by the word "<strong>dumbass."</strong> (not directed at you Cmg).
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]

me too !

MuppetFan

It would be one thing if you had a separate thread discussing the reasons the "Catholic or Religious argument doesn't hold up against Gay marriage"  where she can choose to participate if she wants...but that's not what is happening. She is being called out and attacked.

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:1ddb59c5-0ae3-4271-b937-35b7dcc03131">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]I understand why equality is important. I don't need to be convinced. That's not my issue here. This is not a respectful discussion about religion. This is one person getting picked out in a discussion and tag teamed for her religious beliefs. This is wrong.
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

You know you can disagree with a person who bases their political opinions on their religion without it being attacking that religion, right?

MuppetFan

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:e51eeb2a-ae7c-4900-90bf-8aa1383b37c0">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : You know you can disagree with a person who bases their political opinions on their religion without it being attacking that religion, right?
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

For sure, I know that is possible. She's not just being disagreed with in this case.

MuppetFan

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:3d25087b-979c-428c-a2d7-1c4daa686fa1">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : So we should have read what she wrote and not replied?  That's not how message boards work sweetie. Look this world is never going to be a better place as long as people see someone treat others like siht and just move on so as not to bully the perpetrator.  <strong>Someone has to stand up for what's right in the face of wrongdoing.</strong>
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]

I'm standing up right now.

MuppetFan

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:febc5899-9959-4931-b0b8-6e0b6b0faba9">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : You're on the wrong side.  You're standing up for bullying homosexuals (by not granting them the rights heterosexuals are given) based on religion.  That makes you a bully too.  WTG.
Posted by LingerLonger1[/QUOTE]

Did you steal other people's milk money when you were a kid?