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FFF/LFF

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Re: FFF/LFF

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    GoodLuckBear14GoodLuckBear14 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:90348ffb-c5ec-4616-bd48-1cf62aeea554">Re:FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:FFF/LFF : She says that kind of stuff all the time.  Actually, when I read the comment here I knew exactly who wrote the reply before I even looked at the orignal thread.  She is that how consistent she is in her replies. I'm not actually sure why them hosting affects the b/g? According to her by them not hosting means its sends a message that they do not approve of the union.  Which I guess indirectly could affect the b/g relationship?  IDK?     She also thinks you should NEVER have ANY need to talk to your MIL/FMIL.  Like ever. Kristen### just provides me entertainment.
    Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    I know.  I am just constantly amazed that there is a woman who believes it is still the 1950s.
    Proud to be an old married hag!! image
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    misshart00misshart00 member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    In Response to Re:FFF/LFF:[QUOTE]In Response to Re:FFF/LFF:In Response to Re:FFF/LFF: I know her very traditional views, but I never actually heard her say something was a red flag. I'm still kind of curious how its a red flag though. How does them not paying for the RD affect the bride and grooms relationship?Posted by misshart00She says that kind of stuff all the time. nbsp;Actually, when I read the comment here I knew exactly who wrote the reply before I even looked at the orignal thread. nbsp;She is that consistent in her replies.I'm not actually sure why them hosting affects the b/g? According to her by them not hosting means its sends a message that they do not approve of the union. nbsp;Which I guess indirectly could affect the b/g relationship? nbsp;IDK? nbsp; nbsp;She also thinks you should NEVER have ANY need to talk to your MIL/FMIL. nbsp;Like ever.Kristen just provides me entertainment. Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]

    I completely forgot about the not approving of the marriage thing. She does use that a lot. And every time there's any diet of argument, like what colors to use, she insists you set up an appointment with your officiant to talk things through. I'm all for premarital counseling, buy goodness, she takes it to the next level.

    She's definitely entertaining.
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    lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited March 2013
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:b876665d-194a-4497-8411-54c1f2299b55">Re:FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:FFF/LFF: I completely forgot about the not approving of the marriage thing. She does use that a lot. And every time there's any diet of argument, like what colors to use, she insists you set up an appointment with your officiant to talk things through. I'm all for premarital counseling, buy goodness, she takes it to the next level. She's definitely entertaining.
    Posted by misshart00[/QUOTE]

    <div>My relationship with DH is doomed in her eyes.  Not only did MIL not pay for the RD ::gasp:: but I.... get this..... just randomly call up MIL to see how she is doing.  No real purpose like coordinating a holiday dinner or something like that.  Nope, I just call to say "Hi".</div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    MuppetFanMuppetFan member
    5 Love Its First Answer Name Dropper First Comment
    I'm going to go with the context clues.

    I flame anyone who puts their coworkers schedules above her family's and expects people to be excited to come to their Monday wedding to save a few dollars. Also, anyone who envisions their wedding weekend as a vacation.

    http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_monday-wedding-very-not-punctual-mil

    LFF to soontobehandy, and commentators on the Troll Nail post for awesome Muppet discussion, http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_ner-muppetfan

    Also LFF to participants in posts created for my amusement. I'm glad they also amuse others, thanks for the love.
    image   imageimage
    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.

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    AddieCakeAddieCake member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    I agree, Muppet. Why some people think their guests will be delighted to get away for the "mini vacation" their wedding will provide them is beyond me.
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
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    BostonGIrl4732BostonGIrl4732 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Apparently I missed some great threads this week...  


    Thank goodness for Fridays!
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    Jessa617 Jessa617 member
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    Has anyone flamed the idea that "rustic" is an original theme?

    http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_my-theme-ideas-were-stolen-by-my-bffwhat-would-you-do
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    rachelm13rachelm13 member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    I have nothing but LFF for the ladies who posted on my vent.  Thank you thank you thank you.  LFF shout out to Muppet and her hilariously entertaining posts and everyone who participated.
     
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    201 Invited image 139 Attending image 20 Declined image 42 Are making me wait image
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    PeledreamsofrainPeledreamsofrain member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer Name Dropper
    Awright, since all the best flames are taken, and in spirit of the new approach to FFF, I am going to stick to Loves only!

    I LFF every one of  those that do not take advice well, and the opportunities that they open up for gifs.  I wish I could kiss every last bad-tempered one of you.  My days are filled with intense amusement, and oceans of comedy.  You make it possible, you delicious beautiful flouncers you.

    You can't play on the playground without the monkeybars, afterall!
    Don't make me mobilize OffensiveKitten

    image

    Anniversary

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    libby2483libby2483 member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper First Comment
    edited March 2013
    In Response to Re:FFF/LFF:Has anyone flamed the idea that "rustic" is an original theme? http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/weddingboards_etiquette_mythemeideaswerestolenbymybffwhatwouldyoudo Posted by Jessalyn2013 I agree. Half of the weddings I've heard about or have been invited to in the last year are rustic. If you look at the Wisconsin board, three out of four posts are about finding a rustic barn venue. Mason jars as centerpieces are not an original idea.
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    PeledreamsofrainPeledreamsofrain member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer Name Dropper
    Shoot, forgot to LFF Muppet for her fun threads, Kristan for her sense of humor, and all those here that ask for advice and either take it or leave it. Big girl panties are sexay!
    Don't make me mobilize OffensiveKitten

    image

    Anniversary

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    itzMSitzMS member
    First Answer First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:50dba536-4216-43a5-ac16-9deb1726c67d">Re:FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:FFF/LFF:Has anyone flamed the idea that "rustic" is an original theme? <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/weddingboards_etiquette_mythemeideaswerestolenbymybffwhatwouldyoudo">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/weddingboards_etiquette_mythemeideaswerestolenbymybffwhatwouldyoudo</a> Posted by Jessalyn2013 I agree. Half of the weddings I've heard about or have been invited to in the last year are rustic. <strong>If you look at the Wisconsin board, three out of four posts are about finding a rustic barn venue.</strong> Mason jars as centerpieces are not an original idea.
    Posted by libby2483[/QUOTE]

    Oh gawd this kills me. Can I FFF/I Judge all brides who think barns, burlap, cowboy boots, and mason jars are unique?
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    ladytoriladytori
    5 Love Its First Comment
    LFF goes out to sayyest2013. She is a really cool bride and is excited about one of her BMs expecting a baby.

    http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_bridesmaid-is-due-on-our-wedding-day

    I had two bridesmaids, who were pregnant, and was so ecstatic about their new additions to their families.
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    BostonGIrl4732BostonGIrl4732 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    LFF to this thread for making my day:

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    JennaMichelle88JennaMichelle88 member
    5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:50dba536-4216-43a5-ac16-9deb1726c67d">Re:FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:FFF/LFF: If you look at the Wisconsin board, three out of four posts are about finding a rustic barn venue. Mason jars as centerpieces are not an original idea.
    Posted by libby2483[/QUOTE]

    That kills me. I think there are literally 3 in a row on there right now. Why do you need your very own thread? I'm having a barn wedding but in no way think it's unique. I did when I thought it up 2 years before even getting engaged, but now I see that it isn't and that's fine.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:09c420bf-3511-4565-93a9-82c3c76bd2a6">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]Sorry I wasn't here earlier, I was adding my day in GIFs over on CC. I flame the thought that your MOH is wrong to get married before the bride (meaning she can't help with DIY projects).   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_moh-planning-a-wedding-a-month-before-me.">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_moh-planning-a-wedding-a-month-before-me.</a>  Oh and apparently we're petty and nuts and effed.   Also, I flame the idea that we're all horribly overweight and eating cupcakes while commenting on threads about her FSIL and FG.   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid</a>
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    I wish I was eating cupcakes while commenting on threads. I gave up sweets for lent and am DYING for cupcakes (they're my fav).
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    AddieCakeAddieCake member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:09c420bf-3511-4565-93a9-82c3c76bd2a6">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE] Also, I flame the idea that we're all horribly overweight and eating cupcakes while commenting on threads about her FSIL and FG.   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid</a>
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]


    But LFF for Irene in that for telling us not to feed the trolls. Tee hee.
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
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    Jessa617 Jessa617 member
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:09c420bf-3511-4565-93a9-82c3c76bd2a6">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]Sorry I wasn't here earlier, I was adding my day in GIFs over on CC. I flame the thought that your MOH is wrong to get married before the bride (meaning she can't help with DIY projects).   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_moh-planning-a-wedding-a-month-before-me.">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_moh-planning-a-wedding-a-month-before-me.</a>  Oh and apparently we're petty and nuts and effed.   Also, I flame the idea that we're all horribly overweight and eating cupcakes while commenting on threads about her FSIL and FG.   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid</a>
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    Now I want a cupcake...
    Anniversary
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    PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:09c420bf-3511-4565-93a9-82c3c76bd2a6">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]Sorry I wasn't here earlier, I was adding my day in GIFs over on CC. I flame the thought that your MOH is wrong to get married before the bride (meaning she can't help with DIY projects).   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_moh-planning-a-wedding-a-month-before-me.">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_moh-planning-a-wedding-a-month-before-me.</a>  Oh and apparently we're petty and nuts and effed.   Also, I flame the idea that we're all horribly overweight and eating cupcakes while commenting on threads about her FSIL and FG.   <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid">http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_really-need-advice-with-bridesmaid</a>
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    Does a doughnut count? :-P

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    antibride2013antibride2013 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment

    I know this is NWR-BUT-

    I have to give tons of LFF to all the organ and tissue donors all over the world!  This week alone, 4 of my patients were matched with bone marrow donors!  Amazing!  Smile

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:50de65c4-9705-4466-bc8d-5b518f1dfc64">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF/LFF : I say LFF to Irene all around CUPCAKE PARTY!!!!!
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]
    <div class="postedimg"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/JuwKW.gif" alt="Cupcakes dog" title="Cupcakes staring dog" width="256px" height="195px" /></div>
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    thejucheideathejucheidea member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    I flame Apple for telling me they couldn't flag my stolen laptop's serial number as stolen so that law enforcement could be contacted if it was brought to an Apple store or someone called in to Apple wanting support.

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    KnotIreneKnotIrene admin
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    I can't believe that dog doesn't just grab and run with a cupcake.

    And thanks to all for the kind words.  I can't tell you how much it means to me.
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    kmbryant2413kmbryant2413 member
    5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:3210cfc0-b62c-4c4e-a382-2616bb57e959">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]I know this is NWR-BUT- I have to give tons of LFF to all the organ and tissue donors all over the world!  This week alone, 4 of my patients were matched with bone marrow donors!  Amazing! 
    Posted by antibride2013[/QUOTE]

    <div>Yaay! I very patiently wait to see if I will someday be matched. I've been in the NMR for two years now, but it's something that's constantly in the back of my head. I think someday I might be called, but who knows. Irish/Native American/German is a strange genetic heritage mix.</div>
    my blog - for the love of ein
    'Next time, just fart.' - BriSox81
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    antibride2013antibride2013 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:f2e27e18-ee45-4335-91d2-96bdf752b878">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF/LFF : Yaay! I very patiently wait to see if I will someday be matched. I've been in the NMR for two years now, but it's something that's constantly in the back of my head. I think someday I might be called, but who knows. Irish/Native American/German is a strange genetic heritage mix.
    Posted by kmbryant2413[/QUOTE]

    Yay kmbryant!!!  I LOVE hearing people are registered!  And you never know-  One of the donors for my patient was matched with a man from France!  How amazing is that!  We also had a local man who has been in the NMR for 16 years who has just been matched with someone!  Just keep your contact information up to date. 

    Seeing people come in who know they are about to save someone else's life is truly wonderful.  One woman described it to me as "the most wonderful feeling she has ever had", and she just burst into tears. 
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    lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:94d3dc46-4cf9-4af3-96f6-52e4eaf32b66">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF/LFF : Seriously.  Mine would have eaten the cupcakes (and the paper) and have licked the tray to death by now.  
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    <div>My dog would not touch them.  I can leave steak on the coffee table and walk away and he will not touch the food.  He will sniff, but never try to eat.  Now if they were on the floor, it's fair game.</div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    OwningAHome1981OwningAHome1981 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:3210cfc0-b62c-4c4e-a382-2616bb57e959">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]I know this is NWR-BUT- I have to give tons of LFF to all the organ and tissue donors all over the world!  This week alone, 4 of my patients were matched with bone marrow donors!  Amazing! 
    Posted by antibride2013[/QUOTE]

    *LIKE* :)
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
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    AddieCakeAddieCake member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:94d3dc46-4cf9-4af3-96f6-52e4eaf32b66">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF/LFF : Seriously.  Mine would have eaten the cupcakes (and the paper) and have licked the tray to death by now.  
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]


    Hell, even I would have done that by now.
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
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    Amyzen83Amyzen83 member
    First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer First Anniversary
    edited March 2013
    This is my first time doing this, because usually there's like a thousand posts by the time I get around to this and would like to read everybodys, but I'll start with LFF to MuppetFan for being awesome with her muppet mania! Love it!

    Now for the FFFs:
    1st one goes to these diva brides that care more about their picture perfect weddings than the fact that they could be jepardizing their bridesmaids, job or well being by insisting on the clone look all the way down to the fingernails and toenails. And brides who insist on bridesmaids paying way outside of their budgets just so they can have the showers and bach parties they want, not what the bridesmaids want to give them as gifts.

    Second I flame the bride who is willing to use flower girls as props but won't let them come to the reception.
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    lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_fff-108?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:7b8fd8f1-3c56-4a7b-9528-f7b31c25b538Post:c2578fcb-bd03-46e4-8447-4c7fbf1e9e3f">Re: FFF/LFF</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: FFF/LFF : Christmas 2009.  My parents bought an 8 pound Honeybaked Ham.  We had some ham sandwiches for dinner Christmas Eve and were going to save the rest for Christmas morning.  We wake up, walk in and see this: That's the remains of the 8 pound ham.  My parents put it on the counter (forgot to put it in the fridge).  Their other dog was licking the inside of the bag (it had the honeybaked coating in there).  My dogs were passed out from a sugar coma, and my sister's dog took a dump in the guest bedroom. Our dogs have no shame whatsoever.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    <div>That is so awesome.  Chef is too short to get anything from the counter.  I'll be honest in saying I doubt if we left the steak on the coffee table (which he can get to) and left the apartment he would not attack the plate.  However, if we are around, he knows not to touch the plate.</div><div>
    </div><div>He is funny though. When we are trimming any type of raw meat (chicken, beef, whatever) he goes to his bowl, sits and waits for the scraps.  </div>






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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