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How would you handle this??

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Re: How would you handle this??

  • shaylagirlshaylagirl member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Second Anniversary First Answer
    edited June 2013
    But again I ask WHY should he have to apologize?  This guy shouldn't and doesn't have to take on the burden of OP's feelings.  He doesn't HAVE to be sorry he offended anyone.  He doesn't HAVE to be sorry about his choice of words.  He doesn't HAVE to feel bad for, or apologize for, that interaction at all.  Forcing an apology from him is forcing him to take on the burden of someone else's feelings. 

    We so often say here that you can't control others actions, you can only control your reactions.  Are we just going to throw this out the window here because this particular topic happens to be one some of you would be offended by?

    So let's just assume the guy never apologizes.  What should the next step be?
    For me, if a friend accidentally offends me (I don't care what they've said, I'm offended), either I or FI call them out on it.  Friend blows it off and isn't able to acknowledge that, hey, my words had an unintended reaction, which I -should- feel sorry for, then I don't personally see why we're friends.

    I'm not sorry for my choice of words, but I am sorry I hurt your feelings; that's completely valid.  And I can respect a friend who conveys that to me.

    At least own that. 

    "Hey Shay, I'm sorry my words offended you.  That wasn't my intent."

    That's not hard.  I've had to do this a few times in my life.  I'm not apologizing for my beliefs, which are what they are, but I acknowledge that I unintentionally wounded someone I should care about if they're my friend.

    So, my friend has offended me.  Personally, I feel that I shouldn't HAVE to -ask- for an apology if a friend knows they've offended me.  I don't roll like that.  If they can't be a mature adult and own they made a minor mistake, then, I don't need them in my life.

    At which point I'd let them know "Hey Will, look, you offended me, and I just don't think we're a good fit as friends any longer."

    Which is true.  If they can't see or understand what they did, then we're NOT a good fit as friends.

    I've got friends with completely different religious and political views (such as FI, we're opposite sides of the spectrum).  I love those friends, and I have told them a few times, if debates or discussions have gotten heated "Hey, take it easy.  You're getting abrasive and that's not necessary."  To which I've always gotten an apology.

    I DO feel OP should have handled this herself.  That would have been the fastest course of action and most mature one.  But, going forward, she should. 

    (Edited to clarify.)
  • AddieCakeAddieCake Beyond the Wall member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    PDKH said:
    And I guess I don't think he was really being that dickish. Boneheaded? Yes. Offensive? Not really. And my guess is, he didn't think he was being a dick either. 

    If he had just said "What are my chances for hooking up with your friend?" I'm wondering what her reaction would have been. 
    I only just found this thread and haven't read all the responses yet, but I agree with this. I guess I just wouldn't have been all that offended by his comment. 


    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
    image
  • I was not offended at the fact he wanted to get laid. I was more so offended by what he said and how he was referring to one of my best friends. My FI and I do NOT tolerate this behavior and I believe my FI made that quite clear to this guy. I just feel like there is something I could or should do to show that I am backing up my FI in this situation...

    Okay, then I think you need to clarify what it was that you were offended by. If not the content, then what? Was it his use of the Fword?

    Also, I'm curious to know... was your friend offended?
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    hlvonb said:
    So long story short....

    My FI and I went out for his birthday with some friends (who also happen to be in the bridal party). One of his friends who is a groomsman was hitting it off with a friend of mine who is a bridesmaid. Anyway, when my FI's friend and I were outside talking he asked if I would give him a honest answer about something. I said sure. He then asked me "so what are my chances of F**king that broad tonight?" I was offended by this because I found it very disrespectful. Plus the girls in the bridal party are very close to me. I mean after all my own sister is not in the bridal party. Not knowing exactly what to do I told my FI and he said he would handle it. My FI told him that behavior and kind of talk is not acceptable and that he would have to apologize to me. 

    I got a message from this guy on Facebook today and he did not apologize, made a joke of the situation and said he thinks there is an underline issue here. He is also the type of guy who uses the fact he is in the Army as an excuse for a lot of things.

    I want to say something to him but I don't know what to say. My FI thinks it is time to say something to this guy myself too. 

    What would you say to him. I want to let him know this was not ok by any stretch of the imagination but I don't know how because my FI was very stern when he talked to him.
    How would I handle it?

    "Zero, you asshat!  That "broad" is my close friend, and last I checked I'm not fucking Heidi Fleiss, I'm not running an escort service.  If you wanna get laid go on Craig's list.  By the way, thanks for your service."

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    [Deleted User]Angelface225
  • I know this was far back...but I wouldn't mind being "that broad he wants to fuck"... that's how I met my husband.

    I honestly would not have gotten offended by the statement but then again I grew up with guys and always had guy friends so the way they talk is second nature to me.

    At this point OP, I would just let it go. If your FI friend does anything to offend you again in the future say something right then and there, don't wait on it. He won't take you seriously if you or your FI is going to say something after the fact.
    Anniversary
    manateehugger
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited June 2013

    Am I the only one wondering what using his Army service as an excuse actually means?

    ETA: Bonus points for the P&P reference. 
    I'm more wondering the relevance of that line to what happened.  It was just an inflammatory afterthought thrown in there to make us dislike this guy even more.  She did not say he said that to excuse this interaction, just that he uses it "as an excuse for a lot of things."
    Yeah, I meant what you said - you just said it better. I don't really understand what his being in the Army has to do with him making a typical dude comment. 

    ETA: The comment made me think there have been previous interactions between OP and this guy before. 
    I realize I'm resurrecting a zombie thread, but deal.

    A couple of the guys in my extended friend group behave this way and use the "army excuse."  The idea is that they spend so much time on base and deployed with large groups of men that they've reverted back to 14 year olds in the locker room.  They're crass, rude, and want to get dirty all the time.  

    It's just an excuse for guys that want to behave like teenagers, but since it's harmless stuff, everyone just ignores them.  I think the ones to get offended would be the military men who are gentlemen.  
  • But again I ask WHY should he have to apologize?  This guy shouldn't and doesn't have to take on the burden of OP's feelings.  He doesn't HAVE to be sorry he offended anyone.  He doesn't HAVE to be sorry about his choice of words.  He doesn't HAVE to feel bad for, or apologize for, that interaction at all.  Forcing an apology from him is forcing him to take on the burden of someone else's feelings. 

    We so often say here that you can't control others actions, you can only control your reactions.  Are we just going to throw this out the window here because this particular topic happens to be one some of you would be offended by?

    So let's just assume the guy never apologizes.  What should the next step be?
    For me, if a friend accidentally offends me (I don't care what they've said, I'm offended), either I or FI call them out on it.  Friend blows it off and isn't able to acknowledge that, hey, my words had an unintended reaction, which I -should- feel sorry for, then I don't personally see why we're friends.

    I'm not sorry for my choice of words, but I am sorry I hurt your feelings; that's completely valid.  And I can respect a friend who conveys that to me.

    At least own that. 

    "Hey Shay, I'm sorry my words offended you.  That wasn't my intent."

    That's not hard.  I've had to do this a few times in my life.  I'm not apologizing for my beliefs, which are what they are, but I acknowledge that I unintentionally wounded someone I should care about if they're my friend.

    So, my friend has offended me.  Personally, I feel that I shouldn't HAVE to -ask- for an apology if a friend knows they've offended me.  I don't roll like that.  If they can't be a mature adult and own they made a minor mistake, then, I don't need them in my life.

    At which point I'd let them know "Hey Will, look, you offended me, and I just don't think we're a good fit as friends any longer."

    Which is true.  If they can't see or understand what they did, then we're NOT a good fit as friends.

    I've got friends with completely different religious and political views (such as FI, we're opposite sides of the spectrum).  I love those friends, and I have told them a few times, if debates or discussions have gotten heated "Hey, take it easy.  You're getting abrasive and that's not necessary."  To which I've always gotten an apology.

    I DO feel OP should have handled this herself.  That would have been the fastest course of action and most mature one.  But, going forward, she should. 

    (Edited to clarify.)
    So, what you really want to hear is "I'm not sorry about what I said and did, but I'm sorry that you're too sensitive"?  Because that is exactly what the bolded sounds like.


    Am I the only one wondering what using his Army service as an excuse actually means?

    ETA: Bonus points for the P&P reference. 
    I'm more wondering the relevance of that line to what happened.  It was just an inflammatory afterthought thrown in there to make us dislike this guy even more.  She did not say he said that to excuse this interaction, just that he uses it "as an excuse for a lot of things."
    Yeah, I meant what you said - you just said it better. I don't really understand what his being in the Army has to do with him making a typical dude comment. 

    ETA: The comment made me think there have been previous interactions between OP and this guy before. 
    I realize I'm resurrecting a zombie thread, but deal.

    A couple of the guys in my extended friend group behave this way and use the "army excuse."  The idea is that they spend so much time on base and deployed with large groups of men that they've reverted back to 14 year olds in the locker room.  They're crass, rude, and dirty all the time.  

    It's just an excuse for guys that want to behave like teenagers, but since it's harmless stuff, everyone just ignores them.  I think the ones to get offended would be the military men who are gentlemen.  
    Meh, I'll hang out with you in zombie land. 

    I guess I've never really heard that excuse from Army guys. I know guys who have used a deployment as an excuse to sleep with everything that has two legs and a hoo-haa they can find once they get home. I also know guys who've acted stupid and asshat-ish with each other because that's their way of coping with the post-deployment world. I don't judge it, nor do I get offended by it. 

    But I also hang out with a ton of guys in general. When there aren't a lot of women around, a lot guys tend to act like 14 year old's when it comes to sex - military or no. I like to consider my FI a gentleman, and I highly doubt he'd ever be offended by Army guys being ass-hats with each other. 
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    I'm not going to quote again, because it's getting so long.  

    I don't think the military gentlemen would be offended by guys being asshats.  I think they'd be offended to be lumped in with the asshats.  Sort of like how I'm not offended by women who act stupid, but I'm offended when they say they're stupid because they're women.  
    [Deleted User]
  • @cmsciulli, just like you except the word douche definitely would be involved. But I've had to tell off one of FI's friends a few times for getting stupid drunk at our house and being an ass, so I tend to speak my mind.

     

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    PrettyGirlLost
  • I'm not going to quote again, because it's getting so long.  

    I don't think the military gentlemen would be offended by guys being asshats.  I think they'd be offended to be lumped in with the asshats.  Sort of like how I'm not offended by women who act stupid, but I'm offended when they say they're stupid because they're women.  
    Whoops, my apologies then, I read that wrong. Even though I do think the deployment issue is more complex. 

    Yeah, the blanket statements about Army guys piss me off to no end. Especially about enlisted guys (saying that as an officer's FI). People disconnected with the military often have no idea what they're talking about. 

    I completely agree about women who act idiotic and think they're allowed to because they're women. 
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  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    He did NOT apologize
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    You are right. Maybe I wasn't clear enough but no, he did not apologize.
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    I did not demand an apology. That was my FI's thing. I let him handle it because he knows the guy a lot better than I do. He WAS offended.
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    I am going to make this clear for everyone. I was offended whether feel I should be or not I was. My FI was also offended. No I am not trying to force my FI to end a friendship with the guy. As I have replied to others on here... I asked my FI to handle it since he knows the guy a lot better (I had only met this guy once and it happened to be the night he made the comment). My FI has known him dor years. My FI also WAS offended because of the remark.  And yes my friend was offended as well.

    And an update... yes he uses the army as an excuse for a lot of things. He also used it as an excuse for this too saying that he can say what he wants because he is in the army. I also found out today that before coming to me about what his chances were, he tried to corner my friend when we were out.
    kjlamb
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    What I mean by trying to corner her is that where ever she went, he followed. If she sat down at a table he would sit in in front of her which would make it almost impossible for her to get up and leave the table. Then when she was outside to smoke he followed her out and stood directly in front of her with his hands on the wall on either side of her. She was talking to my FI about something and he walked up and interrupted the conversation to the point where the conversation became a forced on between her and him. From what I understand is my FI tried to intervene then (when she looked at my FI and rolled her eyes) but did not succeed. From what I understand is that my FI tried to make the conversation one that involved the three of them; he tried to change it back to what my FI and her were discussing before. 
  • manateehuggermanateehugger member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited June 2013
    hlvonb said:
    What I mean by trying to corner her is that where ever she went, he followed. If she sat down at a table he would sit in in front of her which would make it almost impossible for her to get up and leave the table. Then when she was outside to smoke he followed her out and stood directly in front of her with his hands on the wall on either side of her. She was talking to my FI about something and he walked up and interrupted the conversation to the point where the conversation became a forced on between her and him. From what I understand is my FI tried to intervene then (when she looked at my FI and rolled her eyes) but did not succeed. From what I understand is that my FI tried to make the conversation one that involved the three of them; he tried to change it back to what my FI and her were discussing before. 



    Dude, this is totally different than what you posted in your OP. Getting creepy and harassing your friend is not the same as saying he'd like to sleep with her. 

    And yeah, I agree with Stage, why the hell didn't your friend say or do something herself? This guy doesn't need to apologize to YOU, he needs to apologize to HER. 

    ETA: I hate how the quoting gets all screwed up. 
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    [Deleted User]PrettyGirlLost
  • edited June 2013
    I don't know why your panties are in a such a bunch.  Quit crucifying this guy. Either your FI is going to dump him as a friend (which is super dramatic) or freaking let it go. He didn't harm anyone, seriously. It was a dumb comment, but like I said before... roll your eyes and keep it moving. 

    manateehuggerlibby2483
  • Why didn't SHE put a stop to it, if it was bothering her, and I agree it would have bothered me. That dude would have ended up with a face full of smoke and then a knee to the groin if the smoke didn't work. And that would have been AFTER I told him to back off before that.

    I agree, but I also know women who have frozen up when they felt cornered. I don't want to put blame on them for that. 

    Not trying to say that's what you're doing, I just think we need to be careful when asking why she didn't respond in a certain way.
    I have a friend who's this way. She was in an emotionally abusive relationship for years and tends to freeze up around more aggressive men. But she at least usually will come run to tell me when something's happening and I'll help her address it (usually by being a straight up cockblocking bitch to the dude).  

    If this friend can't say anything to anyone when she's being confronted, she should seek out counseling. 

    I still don't understand why OP is demanding an apology for herself instead of demanding he apologize to her friend. 
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    PrettyGirlLost
  • AddieCakeAddieCake Beyond the Wall member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    Wait a minute. Now there's a whole new plot twist to this story?  This info was pretty important. I can't believe you didn't you think it was relevant to include in the OP.


    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
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  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    She didn't tell him herself because she does not do well around aggressive men. Her father was very abusive to her mother. I did not find out about the cornering until after I originally posted my first post but yes we are now way more concerned with her getting an apology. I have accepted the fact that he will not give an apology to me. Fine. But she still deserves one.
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    AddieL73 said:
    Wait a minute. Now there's a whole new plot twist to this story?  This info was pretty important. I can't believe you didn't you think it was relevant to include in the OP.

    Like I mentioned in my last post. I was not aware of the cornering until after the original post.
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    PDKH said:
    Why didn't SHE put a stop to it, if it was bothering her, and I agree it would have bothered me. That dude would have ended up with a face full of smoke and then a knee to the groin if the smoke didn't work. And that would have been AFTER I told him to back off before that.

    I agree, but I also know women who have frozen up when they felt cornered. I don't want to put blame on them for that. 

    Not trying to say that's what you're doing, I just think we need to be careful when asking why she didn't respond in a certain way.
    I have a friend who's this way. She was in an emotionally abusive relationship for years and tends to freeze up around more aggressive men. But she at least usually will come run to tell me when something's happening and I'll help her address it (usually by being a straight up cockblocking bitch to the dude).  

    If this friend can't say anything to anyone when she's being confronted, she should seek out counseling. 

    I still don't understand why OP is demanding an apology for herself instead of demanding he apologize to her friend. 

    All of this.

    And I wasn't "blaming" her.  I was actually questioning whether or not it had been embellished in the telling at one point or another.  Because even if I wasn't strong enough to tell him off directly, after the pinning to a wall thing, almost any woman I know would be telling someone then.  

    Sadly, the truth is that some women can't stand up to men, but sadder still is that it is far more common that a story being told from one pissed off friend to another gets exaggerated, especially when alcohol is involved.  I'm not saying that is what DID happen, just wondering if it was possible.

    Regardless, none of this warrants an apology to OP.  And in fact, the fact that OP is still stuck on him needing to apologize to HER instead of being more upset about what happened to her friends.
    I am not stuck on him apologizing to me. I did not know about the cornering at the time of the original post. 
  • Dreamergirl8812Dreamergirl8812 your closet member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    I think this is totally your FI's issue to deal with. Clearly this guy's issues aren't about you or your friend. They are universal and probably will not change any time soon. What a creep.



    Anniversary
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    PrettyGirlLost
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    That is what I am thinking. I am washing my hands of the whole situation. I am letting my FI deal with the situation. I appreciate all of you giving your opinions. Thank you!
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    Stage you are not correct. I am done with the situation.
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    My FI is a grown adult. He knows my opinions on the situation and what I think about the guy. I will NOT force my FI to do something or not to do something. I think you're just looking for an argument and are trying any little thing you can but its not going to work. Please leave me a lone and go try to bug someone else. I am done talking to you. Thank you
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    If I did flag it it was on accident. I have never knowingly or on purpose flagged anyone
  • RamonaFlowersRamonaFlowers member
    Eighth Anniversary 500 Love Its 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited June 2013
    So, before, when you were upset that he had spoken to you in a crass manner, it was worth all this drama. But now that he's behaved TRULY inappropriately towards one of your closest friends, it isn't worth the trouble and you don't care if your FI continues the friendship and invites him around? Wow, those are some interesting priorities.
    I have to reiterate this whole post. It seems like when you were offended by one off-the-cuff comment he made that wasn't even about you, you were all about demanding some kind of sincere apology and "He makes excuses for his bad behavior" and your FI defending you.

    Now you find out that your friend spent the night being constantly harassed and creeped on by the same guy all night long (Which if you were all out together, how did you not know this was going on until she said something days later?), and suddenly it's "Whatever, I'm not involved with this anymore."

    Seriously?


    *I felt sorry for my husband before I met him. Take a number.*
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    [Deleted User]
  • hlvonbhlvonb member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!

    This situation has been figured out. The guy is NOT In the wedding party anymore. Also I have been told by my FI and my friend that he did apologise to her. Neither my FI or I plan on talking to the guy again
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