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Chilly feet

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Re: Chilly feet

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    Wow, I didn't even know that this kind of abuse had a special name. It sounds truly awful and about the worst thing I can imagine doing to another person. Let alone someone I love. :-S
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    I think this is some of the best advice Linger has ever given. I agree with her so much here.

    A month is not any time really to make lasting changes, in my opinion, so think about this man as he is now, and your relationship now. Are you happy? Are you willing to accept all of his flaws for the rest of your life? Is having a close relationship with his mother a requirement for you to be happy?

    I'll share my perspective: I had serious doubts before I married my ex-H. We went to counseling. In therapy, he admitted all his issues and promised me the world and even made changes. I felt satisfied. 2 months later, his habits started to revert to normal and I was noticing it and with the wedding right there, I vocalized all my issues to my friends and mother and they told me I was fine, this is normal, I have cold feet. The night before my wedding, I wanted to cancel it and they cited all the people that were there for us...how embarrassing would that be? I knew on the honeymoon it was a bad decision. 3 months later, I was ready for a divorce and can you imagine how embarrassing that was so soon?

    I learned from that experience for future relationships. With my current fiance, he was a momma's boy with a crazy momma who was trying to control our lives and he was allowing her to get between us. It's a long story, but I know it was a dealbreaker for that behavior to continue and I told him so. I was willing to postpone the wedding until he could deal with her appropriately, or flat out kick him out. He made the changes, we are happy. I don't have a good relationship with his mother and while it's a work in progress, my relationship with her does not affect my relationship with him.

    He has some flaws, so do I, there's things that annoy me, and vice versa.. but I can fully accept him as he is and I'm confident we will have a good marriage. 

    If you are not confident you will have a good marriage, I really encourage you to postpone. It might cost you financially, but it could be the best decision of your life.

    I also would really think about your best friends comments. Should it be a red flag that she felt so strongly about the speed at which you are getting married that she could no longer be a supportive friend to you if you were not listening to her? She might be someone you want to reconnect with.
    Thank-you and yes, I agree with you!

    First off though, let me clarify about my former best bud: I would never, ever reconnect with her. Long story short, We've supported each other through thick and thin for 11 years. I was in her WP late last year, and she was incredibly happy that I had found now-FH (we weren't engaged at the time of her wedding). She bad-mouthed me to her other friends during her WP process. Fast forward a few months, and I asked her about a one of her wedding photo locations. She threw a fit over text message and threw out 11 years of friendship over total silliness. She said some horrible, vicious things, and I won't be reconnecting with her, ever. At that point, I also held zero regard for any opinions that she had.

    I am happy. Or at least, I used to be when I wasn't so damn tired and feeling like a robot going through the day. Most of the time, I don't feel. I just go through life, doing what needs to be done. I am willing to accept his flaws, and having a close relationship with his mother isn't important. I've never had a close relationship with my own mom, but If anything, FMIL makes me thankful for the wonderful mother that I have!
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    Your last paragraph sounds to me like you may be suffering from depression.  I highly recommend that you get some counseling, both individual and couples.
    This...and what Linger said.

    When I was having issues after getting married, I went on the Nest and posted my feelings because i didn't feel comfortable sharing them with my family anymore. Everyone told me I should get a divorce. I was so defensive and upset, and everyone kept chastising me for having a rationalization for everything that he did.  I thought everyone was a cruel bitch because they didn't know me and I wasn't going on there to be told to get a divorce, I was trying to get advice to work it out. It took me a long time to internalize what was said and realize that it was just THAT obvious to everyone, including total strangers.

    I say this because while I think it's normal to rationalize and to get defensive in situations like this, I hope that you can just think about the fact that these are really obvious issues to total strangers ..and they are major issues that need to be addressed before proceeding.
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    You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.
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    Yeah, the whole thing about not understand his mother and getting him to translate just sealed the deal for me. I don't know you, but I do know that this is an abusive relationship. This is total gaslighting, and WILL lead to other forms of abuse. My sister is living this right now.

    You sound depressed, as PP said. As Muppet pointed out, it took a forum of strangers to point out what she couldn't see herself.

    At the very least, you should postpone the wedding and do a lot of soul searching. Keep seeing your counsellor, and try a few couples sessions too. If he balks at that, there's yet another red flag.
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    seriously, I know we are just a bunch of internet strangers... but I really recommend postponing the wedding and getting into immediate therapy.  I co-sign everything Linger has said about gaslighting.  Your FI sounds like he is doing this... and that is abusive.
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    KDM323KDM323 member
    5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper First Anniversary
    Some strangers on the Internet have truly expressed care and concern and raised red flags based upon what you have posted about your fiancé and your relationship. Please realize that it means we see something you may not be seeing and are responding because we actually care in some way. It is a LOT easier to postpone a wedding then it is to potentially get our of an abusive relationship and/or get divorced.
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    So, just so we're clear. You're writing a post about you're unsure about marrying your FI. And in it, you're bitching about us giving you previous advice that you might want to consider holding off on getting married because every third post you write is about major issues wth your FI? I don't know if I should laugh or smack my head against a wall.

     

    After I posted, I was thinking the same thing. I don't really see OP taking any of our advice, and I know part of being in an abusive relationship, is seeking out help, but not necessarily having the strength to accept that help. 

     

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    My FI and I did premarital counseling and I LOVED it. I haven't had any cold feet, but the church required it. :) And it really got us talking about a lot of things that are very good for us to discuss!

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    My heart breaks for you, OP. This really doesn't sound good at all. Postpone your wedding. If the relationship is right, it will weather the postponement and you'll be that much stronger when you do finally get married. But if the relationship is wrong--and from what YOU are saying here and in other posts, it really really sounds wrong--the postponement will be the smartest thing you've ever done. You should be with someone that you CAN'T WAIT to marry at 3 weeks out. That's how you're "supposed" to feel before the wedding.
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    edited July 2013
    By the way, if I were you I'd quickly go buy a nanny-cam and replay conversations for yourself afterwards to see if you're being gas lighted. At the very least it could be something to bring to your FI to show him what he's doing if he doesn't realize he is doing it.

    Also, by the way, I am sure you've googled it yourself but here are a list of signs that you're being gaslighted:

    1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
    2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.
    3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
    4. You're always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend,, boss.
    5. You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier.
    6. You frequently make excuses for your partner's behavior to friends and family.
    7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.
    8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
    9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists. 
    10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
    11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
    12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
    13. You feel as though you can't do anything right.
    14. You wonder if you are a "good enough" girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.
    15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.

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    I think someone asked this previously, but I didn't see a response--when his mom does this to you, how does he respond to her? Does he address it and make it known that the behavior she is exhibiting is uncalled for and won't be tolerated, or does he brush it off and say she doesn't really mean it? He has to be able to stand up to her and set the precedent that it isn't okay, ever.

    If he won't stand up to his mom when it comes to you, he never will. If he doesn't communicate well with you as it relates to specific issues, that won't change either. Counseling NOW is the only sane way to work on these issues. Postpone the wedding and give time for the lessons you're taking in through counseling to become habits. After another year, you might be well adjusted with one another and your new habits (if they stick) to consider setting another date. If things haven't improved or if he just isn't taking it seriously, just call it all off. You'll thank yourself for waiting later, either way you go.

    Oh yes, sorry, I meant to answer that, then totally forgot. The lie: I had asked how to properly pronounce his cousin's name, and she said, "oh, pronounce it like this; no one ever gets it right, and she'll be so thankful that you're saying it correctly." I say, "great, shall do, thanks!" Found out months later, from his cousin at my shower, that I had been saying her name incorrectly for months. FH either wasn't around, or just didn't realize what I was being told by his mom. He doesn't remember the incident. Otherwise, he mostly just says that she means something different than what she actually says, then he translates later for me.
    This is not okay.  What he's really doing is gas-lighting you again.  You hear what she's actually saying and it upsets you.  Instead of taking your side (or even acknowledging that what she said might be upsetting) and telling mom to back off he takes her side and claims you just didn't understand.  I REPEAT THIS IS NOT OKAY.  You understand what she's saying perfectly he's just not man enough to stand up to his mom for your sake so he's going to pretend she means something else.
    I think this is some of the best advice Linger has ever given. I agree with her so much here.

    A month is not any time really to make lasting changes, in my opinion, so think about this man as he is now, and your relationship now. Are you happy? Are you willing to accept all of his flaws for the rest of your life? Is having a close relationship with his mother a requirement for you to be happy?

    I'll share my perspective: I had serious doubts before I married my ex-H. We went to counseling. In therapy, he admitted all his issues and promised me the world and even made changes. I felt satisfied. 2 months later, his habits started to revert to normal and I was noticing it and with the wedding right there, I vocalized all my issues to my friends and mother and they told me I was fine, this is normal, I have cold feet. The night before my wedding, I wanted to cancel it and they cited all the people that were there for us...how embarrassing would that be? I knew on the honeymoon it was a bad decision. 3 months later, I was ready for a divorce and can you imagine how embarrassing that was so soon?

    I learned from that experience for future relationships. With my current fiance, he was a momma's boy with a crazy momma who was trying to control our lives and he was allowing her to get between us. It's a long story, but I know it was a dealbreaker for that behavior to continue and I told him so. I was willing to postpone the wedding until he could deal with her appropriately, or flat out kick him out. He made the changes, we are happy. I don't have a good relationship with his mother and while it's a work in progress, my relationship with her does not affect my relationship with him.

    He has some flaws, so do I, there's things that annoy me, and vice versa.. but I can fully accept him as he is and I'm confident we will have a good marriage. 

    If you are not confident you will have a good marriage, I really encourage you to postpone. It might cost you financially, but it could be the best decision of your life.

    I also would really think about your best friends comments. Should it be a red flag that she felt so strongly about the speed at which you are getting married that she could no longer be a supportive friend to you if you were not listening to her? She might be someone you want to reconnect with.
    Thank-you and yes, I agree with you!

    First off though, let me clarify about my former best bud: I would never, ever reconnect with her. Long story short, We've supported each other through thick and thin for 11 years. I was in her WP late last year, and she was incredibly happy that I had found now-FH (we weren't engaged at the time of her wedding). She bad-mouthed me to her other friends during her WP process. Fast forward a few months, and I asked her about a one of her wedding photo locations. She threw a fit over text message and threw out 11 years of friendship over total silliness. She said some horrible, vicious things, and I won't be reconnecting with her, ever. At that point, I also held zero regard for any opinions that she had.

    I am happy. Or at least, I used to be when I wasn't so damn tired and feeling like a robot going through the day. Most of the time, I don't feel. I just go through life, doing what needs to be done. I am willing to accept his flaws, and having a close relationship with his mother isn't important. I've never had a close relationship with my own mom, but If anything, FMIL makes me thankful for the wonderful mother that I have!
    Don't start telling yourself it's not as bad as it is.  That's how this comes across.  You KNOW there's at least one serious problem in your relationship but you're so deep into it now you're trying to make it sounds like it's not so bad.  It IS bad.  This will not improve if you walk down the aisle in 3 weeks.  I can promise you that much.  You can't live with his flaws because you keep saying you're going to get him to change (he'll eventually learn to do some housework.  It will eventually get better. These are things you've said.  They would require change, not accepting of flaws).

    This, all of this.  Ditto everything Linger and Muppet and others have said about this.

    OP, I used to feel the SAME way.  That was quite a long time ago.  You know what I did about it?  Nothing.  I ignored it, made excuses for it.  I thought it would go away.  It didn't.  It got so much worse.  I'm not trying to scare you, but having those feelings, for me, is always a sign of a depressive episode.  I was too afraid to face it when it was happening, partially because I couldn't see and understand what I was going through.  I refused to believe there was anything "wrong" with me.  So I ignored it, and continued my life.  Everything came crashing down, and eventually people found out, because I couldn't hide it anymore.  My depression was out of control, and I soon struggled with an addiction to an unhealthy behavior that I used to cope with the distress.  It's been about 10 years since I started seeking treatment.  And even when I started, I wasn't getting the proper treatment.  It's taken me years and years to put myself back together again, and I'm still not where I'd like to be.  But I'm MUCH better, and keep getting better every day.  I've learned a lot throughout this journey, and one of the most important things is learning to recognize when I'm starting to slip back into old habits and ways of thinking.  The words you said, are some of the warning signs for me, which is why I felt the need to speak up.  If I got the proper treatment sooner, there's a good chance I could have saved myself, and my family, a lot of pain.  But you learn, and you get through it.

    That's probably the most personal thing I've said on here.  Again, I don't want to scare you, OP.  I'm not saying you're going to end up like me.  But I REALLY urge you to seek help, and postpone the wedding.  PLEASE, talk to people (trusted family/friends or a counselor) about your feelings and your situation.  You deserve to be happy.

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    So, just so we're clear. You're writing a post about you're unsure about marrying your FI. And in it, you're bitching about us giving you previous advice that you might want to consider holding off on getting married because every third post you write is about major issues wth your FI? I don't know if I should laugh or smack my head against a wall.

     

    After I posted, I was thinking the same thing. I don't really see OP taking any of our advice, and I know part of being in an abusive relationship, is seeking out help, but not necessarily having the strength to accept that help. 

     


    By the way, if I were you I'd quickly go buy a nanny-cam and replay conversations for yourself afterwards to see if you're being gas lighted. At the very least it could be something to bring to your FI to show him what he's doing if he doesn't realize he is doing it.

    Also, by the way, I am sure you've googled it yourself but here are a list of signs that you're being gaslighted:

    1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
    2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.
    3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
    4. You're always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend,, boss.
    5. You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier.
    6. You frequently make excuses for your partner's behavior to friends and family.
    7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.
    8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
    9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists. 
    10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
    11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
    12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
    13. You feel as though you can't do anything right.
    14. You wonder if you are a "good enough" girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.
    15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.

    I found that on Google yesterday, and realized that I hit upon 6 or 7 of those points when it concerns family and friends, both in the past and currently. This is why I originally went to counselling—to make things better with my family and those I hold near and dear, and to learn how to be a stronger person for my own well-being.
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    Okay, OP, by your admission you recognize that you've experienced almost half of the warning signs of being gaslighted. Now what are you going to do about it? (not being bitchy, I am concerned. A friend is going through the same thing right now, and she is giving in to her tormentor. It's heartbreaking to watch.)
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    By the way, if I were you I'd quickly go buy a nanny-cam and replay conversations for yourself afterwards to see if you're being gas lighted. At the very least it could be something to bring to your FI to show him what he's doing if he doesn't realize he is doing it.

    Also, by the way, I am sure you've googled it yourself but here are a list of signs that you're being gaslighted:

    1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
    2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.
    3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
    4. You're always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend,, boss.
    5. You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier.
    6. You frequently make excuses for your partner's behavior to friends and family.
    7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.
    8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
    9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists. 
    10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
    11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
    12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
    13. You feel as though you can't do anything right.
    14. You wonder if you are a "good enough" girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.
    15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.

    OP, isn't #14 basically the name of one of your previous threads?



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