Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

chkmeowt

@STBMrsEverhart if you don't think it matters, then why don't you just tell the people who you are inviting to your "wedding"

Drewsgirl31

I agree with those that take PPD's on a case by case basis however I've never attended one to my knowledge. That said, instead of lying to your guest, why not throw the big party everyone talks about or if the ceremony is that important, throw a vow renewal. I know to some a vow renewal is almost as bad as a PPD but ya can't please everyone and at least there's no lies involved.

(For the record, we are having a vow renewal for our 5th anniversary this year. The only terrible thing I'm doing is wearing a gown but it's a simple lace ivory one. And we were married in a JOP. I'm not embarrassed by this and we recognize that date as our wedding date and anniversary)

mrs4everhart

debmonn said:

@STBMrsEverhart if you don't think it matters, then why don't you just tell the people who you are inviting to your "wedding"

I'm not trying to come off like a jerk with this answer, I'm truly not, but I'm going to decline answering in full bc I've answered it many, many times on these boards and retelling it all just makes me tired. In the shortest, most condensed way possible to answer: we're doing what makes the most sense for us in our particular situation. Some of our guests know, some don't. We don't care to privately acknowledge our legal status even between ourselves, so it makes zero sense to publicly acknowledge it with more people, needlessly. Even those who know are on the same page with us. And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

crunchymamaof2

debmonn said:

@STBMrsEverhart if you don't think it matters, then why don't you just tell the people who you are inviting to your "wedding"

That would make the most sense, wouldn't it? Unless one was really worried about others' reactions, even if they won't admit it or think they do.

lyndausvi

STBMrsEverhart said:

debmonn said:

@STBMrsEverhart if you don't think it matters, then why don't you just tell the people who you are inviting to your "wedding"

I'm not trying to come off like a jerk with this answer, I'm truly not, but I'm going to decline answering in full bc I've answered it many, many times on these boards and retelling it all just makes me tired. In the shortest, most condensed way possible to answer: we're doing what makes the most sense for us in our particular situation. Some of our guests know, some don't. We don't care to privately acknowledge our legal status even between ourselves, so it makes zero sense to publicly acknowledge it with more people, needlessly. Even those who know are on the same page with us. And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

It's really sad how you don't appreciate what you have with that piece of paper.  I donate time and money protesting our state gov't to give these rights you don't even care to privately acknowledge let alone publicly to same sex couples.    Lord knows you are using those rights given to you by being married.

So yeah you sound like spoiled brat and jerk.   

banana468

What saddens me are people who AREN'T saddened by lying, deceitful actions. 

STBMrsEverhart said:

debmonn said:

@STBMrsEverhart if you don't think it matters, then why don't you just tell the people who you are inviting to your "wedding"

I'm not trying to come off like a jerk with this answer, I'm truly not, but I'm going to decline answering in full bc I've answered it many, many times on these boards and retelling it all just makes me tired. In the shortest, most condensed way possible to answer: we're doing what makes the most sense for us in our particular situation. Some of our guests know, some don't. We don't care to privately acknowledge our legal status even between ourselves, so it makes zero sense to publicly acknowledge it with more people, needlessly. Even those who know are on the same page with us. And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

So you intend to lie to many of your guests and you're projecting your feelings into them. Got it. Before you come back and say that not telling does not equal lying, understand that you ARE lying by omission to suit your agenda.

Sabinus15

lyndausvi said:

I forgot say in an earlier reply that even if the legal wedding is out in the open I really side-eye people claiming it wasn't "real" or it's "only a piece of paper" or other similar ridiculous claims.   

Don't get me wrong I totally see how someone would feel their PPD religious ceremony is as important as the legal one to them emotionally, but if it was more important or considered the "real" one then you would not have had the legal one first.  

 It's like some people are embarrassed  that they are in that situation of having to get married earlier than planned that they go into denial and convince themselves it's not really important.  When we all know if it wasn't important it would have never been done.

I side-eye people who discount others' spiritual/religious beliefs as trivial, whatever they may be. 

If you don't consider yourself married, then you are not married. If I don't consider myself engaged, than I am not engaged. If two people do not consider themselves dating, then they are not dating. If someone is given an engagement ring, but does not consider themselves engaged, it is just a ring. For people who do not consider themselves married, a legal ceremony is just signing paperwork. These are deeply personal decisions and the meaning to the couple is directly relevant to its importance. If papers are signed for a legal/financial purpose, then I don't think it should be viewed as just as/more important than a religious ceremony if that is the only reason it was signed and the couple is religious. Basically, if the couple does not consider it to be a wedding, and they do not consider themselves married, then it is not a wedding. 

lyndausvi

Sabinus15 said:

lyndausvi said:

I forgot say in an earlier reply that even if the legal wedding is out in the open I really side-eye people claiming it wasn't "real" or it's "only a piece of paper" or other similar ridiculous claims.   

Don't get me wrong I totally see how someone would feel their PPD religious ceremony is as important as the legal one to them emotionally, but if it was more important or considered the "real" one then you would not have had the legal one first.  

 It's like some people are embarrassed  that they are in that situation of having to get married earlier than planned that they go into denial and convince themselves it's not really important.  When we all know if it wasn't important it would have never been done.

I side-eye people who discount others' spiritual/religious beliefs as trivial, whatever they may be. 

If you don't consider yourself married, then you are not married. If I don't consider myself engaged, than I am not engaged. If two people do not consider themselves dating, then they are not dating. If someone is given an engagement ring, but does not consider themselves engaged, it is just a ring. For people who do not consider themselves married, a legal ceremony is just signing paperwork. These are deeply personal decisions and the meaning to the couple is directly relevant to its importance. If papers are signed for a legal/financial purpose, then I don't think it should be viewed as just as/more important than a religious ceremony if that is the only reason it was signed and the couple is religious. Basically, if the couple does not consider it to be a wedding, and they do not consider themselves married, then it is not a wedding. 

Guaranteed if something happened to one of them they would pull that piece of paper out to prove they were MARRIED so quick you would get whip lash. 

That piece of paper gives them spousal benefits.   SPOUSAL. If it didn't give them MARTIAL RIGHTS they would be no need for that piece of paper.   Fine be in denial, but they are MARRIED.

cookie0803

I was recently asked to be a bridesmaid in a wedding scheduled 2.5 weeks before my due date. The BM dresses are already $200, and since the bride doesn't want to find a dress that isn't skin tight over the waist, I'll have to spend a fortune on alterations to basically remake this dress. This was all annoying on its own (especially since I'm also MOH in a wedding a month before with a similar, but not as serious, dress issue), but the bride just let it slip the other day that she actually got married 3 months ago. I'm trying so hard right now to not be pissed, but TBH I'm pretty damn offended. To PPs who believe their friends and family will understand: we do, of course, understand and support why you got married. The lying and flagrant disregard of others' time, budget, and feelings, however, is where you've lost us.

MobKaz

banana468 said:

What saddens me are people who AREN'T saddened by lying, deceitful actions. 

STBMrsEverhart said:

debmonn said:

@STBMrsEverhart if you don't think it matters, then why don't you just tell the people who you are inviting to your "wedding"

I'm not trying to come off like a jerk with this answer, I'm truly not, but I'm going to decline answering in full bc I've answered it many, many times on these boards and retelling it all just makes me tired. In the shortest, most condensed way possible to answer: we're doing what makes the most sense for us in our particular situation. Some of our guests know, some don't. We don't care to privately acknowledge our legal status even between ourselves, so it makes zero sense to publicly acknowledge it with more people, needlessly. Even those who know are on the same page with us. And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

So you intend to lie to many of your guests and you're projecting your feelings into them. Got it. Before you come back and say that not telling does not equal lying, understand that you ARE lying by omission to suit your agenda.

This poster is the queen of avoidance and euphemism.  She is clearly accustomed to lying and cheating (taking advantage of spousal benefits but "not married") so I don't know why anyone would expect her to understand how offensive and absurd her "logic" is to those with self respect and integrity.  She has made her intentions, and character, (or lack thereof) crystal clear from her first posts.

lyndausvi

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

Jells2dot0

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

MobKaz

Jells2dot0 said:

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

And this is why we really need to let this sleeping dog lie (no pun intended because this attitude is beyond disgusting).  She relishes in our reactions and it only fuels her egocentric mindset.

Sabinus15

mobkaz said:

Jells2dot0 said:

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

And this is why we really need to let this sleeping dog lie (no pun intended because this attitude is beyond disgusting).  She relishes in our reactions and it only fuels her egocentric mindset.

I disagree with your opinions. Guests are not entitled to know the details of your personal life, and if a couple decides they don't want to tell everyone exactly when or why they get married, then that's their business. It's their life, their marriage, they live with the consequences, good or no, and if they decide that this is the best option for them, then good for them for sticking to their guns.

banana468

Sabinus15 said:

mobkaz said:

Jells2dot0 said:

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

And this is why we really need to let this sleeping dog lie (no pun intended because this attitude is beyond disgusting).  She relishes in our reactions and it only fuels her egocentric mindset.


I disagree with your opinions. Guests are not entitled to know the details of your personal life, and if a couple decides they don't want to tell everyone exactly when or why they get married, then that's their business. It's their life, their marriage, they live with the consequences, good or no, and if they decide that this is the best option for them, then good for them for sticking to their guns.

So you think it's perfectly fine to lie.

This helps. I like to know which posters are morally credible and you just helped eliminate one.

MobKaz

Sabinus15 said:

mobkaz said:

Jells2dot0 said:

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

And this is why we really need to let this sleeping dog lie (no pun intended because this attitude is beyond disgusting).  She relishes in our reactions and it only fuels her egocentric mindset.

I disagree with your opinions. Guests are not entitled to know the details of your personal life, and if a couple decides they don't want to tell everyone exactly when or why they get married, then that's their business. It's their life, their marriage, they live with the consequences, good or no, and if they decide that this is the best option for them, then good for them for sticking to their guns.

I see you are taking euphemism classes as well.  When people are invited to the lie fest, it does become their business.  

JCbride2015

Sabinus15 said:

lyndausvi said:

I forgot say in an earlier reply that even if the legal wedding is out in the open I really side-eye people claiming it wasn't "real" or it's "only a piece of paper" or other similar ridiculous claims.   

Don't get me wrong I totally see how someone would feel their PPD religious ceremony is as important as the legal one to them emotionally, but if it was more important or considered the "real" one then you would not have had the legal one first.  

 It's like some people are embarrassed  that they are in that situation of having to get married earlier than planned that they go into denial and convince themselves it's not really important.  When we all know if it wasn't important it would have never been done.

I side-eye people who discount others' spiritual/religious beliefs as trivial, whatever they may be. 

If you don't consider yourself married, then you are not married. If I don't consider myself engaged, than I am not engaged. If two people do not consider themselves dating, then they are not dating. If someone is given an engagement ring, but does not consider themselves engaged, it is just a ring. For people who do not consider themselves married, a legal ceremony is just signing paperwork. These are deeply personal decisions and the meaning to the couple is directly relevant to its importance. If papers are signed for a legal/financial purpose, then I don't think it should be viewed as just as/more important than a religious ceremony if that is the only reason it was signed and the couple is religious. Basically, if the couple does not consider it to be a wedding, and they do not consider themselves married, then it is not a wedding. 

These statements are objectively false.  Marriage is a legal status, which you cannot change just by thinking one way or the other.  The legal ceremony makes you married.  Saying the couple can "consider" themselves married or unmarried is like saying someone can "consider" themselves a legal citizen of a country.  Your internal consideration doesn't matter.  It's just a fact that the couple is married, and it's just a fact that I am a legal citizen of the US and not of France.  I can "consider" myself a citizen of France all I want, but my legal status would remain unchanged.  And I can't "consider" myself not a citizen of the US, and renounce my citizenship just with my mental gymnastics.  The law doesn't work that way.  Either you are or you aren't, and the actual legal wedding (whether JOP or whatever else) is what changes your status.

Other posters have made great points about the hypocrisy and lying so I will just say, ditto.  But this willful ignorance of how the law works made me cringe.

Jells2dot0

Sabinus15 said:

mobkaz said:

Jells2dot0 said:

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

And this is why we really need to let this sleeping dog lie (no pun intended because this attitude is beyond disgusting).  She relishes in our reactions and it only fuels her egocentric mindset.

I disagree with your opinions. Guests are not entitled to know the details of your personal life, and if a couple decides they don't want to tell everyone exactly when or why they get married, then that's their business. It's their life, their marriage, they live with the consequences, good or no, and if they decide that this is the best option for them, then good for them for sticking to their guns.

Fair enough,but I disagree with your view. IMHO, the second you involve others, you lose the right to only think of yourselves. A marriage is an extremly personal act and when you invite others to witness it, you are asking people to share in your personal life. These guests are witnessing your life changing and progressing. They are witnessing you making a very strong and intimate commitment to another human being. Just the same as you giving up your right to control everything when a parent or family member offers to assist with paying for the wedding, you also have to put yourself aside to do what is best for your guests. IMHO, what is best is being honest, open, and upfront about what you are asking them to witness.

edit-spelling

Sabinus15

JCBride2014 said: Sabinus15 said: lyndausvi said: I forgot say in an earlier reply that even if the legal wedding is out in the open I really side-eye people claiming it wasn't "real" or it's "only a piece of paper" or other similar ridiculous claims.   
Don't get me wrong I totally see how someone would feel their PPD religious ceremony is as important as the legal one to them emotionally, but if it was more important or considered the "real" one then you would not have had the legal one first.  
 It's like some people are embarrassed  that they are in that situation of having to get married earlier than planned that they go into denial and convince themselves it's not really important.  When we all know if it wasn't important it would have never been done. I side-eye people who discount others' spiritual/religious beliefs as trivial, whatever they may be. If you don't consider yourself married, then you are not married. If I don't consider myself engaged, than I am not engaged. If two people do not consider themselves dating, then they are not dating. If someone is given an engagement ring, but does not consider themselves engaged, it is just a ring. For people who do not consider themselves married, a legal ceremony is just signing paperwork. These are deeply personal decisions and the meaning to the couple is directly relevant to its importance. If papers are signed for a legal/financial purpose, then I don't think it should be viewed as just as/more important than a religious ceremony if that is the only reason it was signed and the couple is religious. Basically, if the couple does not consider it to be a wedding, and they do not consider themselves married, then it is not a wedding.  These statements are objectively false.  Marriage is a legal status, which you cannot change just by thinking one way or the other.  The legal ceremony makes you married.  Saying the couple can "consider" themselves married or unmarried is like saying someone can "consider" themselves a legal citizen of a country.  Your internal consideration doesn't matter.  It's just a fact that the couple is married, and it's just a fact that I am a legal citizen of the US and not of France.  I can "consider" myself a citizen of France all I want, but my legal status would remain unchanged.  And I can't "consider" myself not a citizen of the US, and renounce my citizenship just with my mental gymnastics.  The law doesn't work that way.  Either you are or you aren't, and the actual legal wedding (whether JOP or whatever else) is what changes your status.
Other posters have made great points about the hypocrisy and lying so I will just say, ditto.  But this willful ignorance of how the law works made me cringe.


You would be 100% correct if everyone considered marriage to be a legal agreement only, but it is much more than that to many people. If someone has the religious belief that a true, binding wedding can only be witnessed in a religious way, than their legal status is irellevent. 

PrettyGirlLost

Sabinus15 said:

JCBride2014 said:

These statements are objectively false.  Marriage is a legal status, which you cannot change just by thinking one way or the other.  The legal ceremony makes you married.  Saying the couple can "consider" themselves married or unmarried is like saying someone can "consider" themselves a legal citizen of a country.  Your internal consideration doesn't matter.  It's just a fact that the couple is married, and it's just a fact that I am a legal citizen of the US and not of France.  I can "consider" myself a citizen of France all I want, but my legal status would remain unchanged.  And I can't "consider" myself not a citizen of the US, and renounce my citizenship just with my mental gymnastics.  The law doesn't work that way.  Either you are or you aren't, and the actual legal wedding (whether JOP or whatever else) is what changes your status.

Other posters have made great points about the hypocrisy and lying so I will just say, ditto.  But this willful ignorance of how the law works made me cringe.

You would be 100% correct if everyone considered marriage to be a legal agreement only, but it is much more than that to many people. If someone has the religious belief that a true, binding wedding can only be witnessed in a religious way, than their legal status is irellevent. 

Yeah no, I don't think so.  You can think the religious and spiritual aspect of your wedding ceremony is the only thing that makes your marriage valid, but you need your marriage to be legally valid for a number of reasons.

So go ahead and poo poo the legal documentation that actually makes your marriage valid, but then

Tell the IRS that the legal status is irrelevant when you go to joint file your taxes. 

Tell the government that the legal status is irrelevant when you try to claim Social Security, Medicare, or disability benefits for your spouse.

Tell your employer that the legal status is irrelevant when you want to obtain insurance benefits for your spouse through your employer, or vice versa.

Tell the government that the legal status is irrelevant when your spouse is dying and you want to claim power of attorney, or after they die and you want to claim money and property from their estate as yours.

delujm0

This thread really blew up this weekend.

 

I really get hung up on the "it's whether the couple considers themselves to be married" thing.  Look, i understand that some people view the religious ceremony as the most important part, and that they won't be considered married by their church until the religious ceremony happens.  It's not me, but i get it.  If you feel this way, but you get legally married before hand, and you're really attached to having your religious wedding ceremony and reception, why can't you at least be up front about it to your guests?  Invite them to your spiritual wedding or something?  And not hide the fact that legally you are already married?

 

The reason that people lie about it is because they KNOW what they are doing is wrong, but they want to do it anyway.  It's very selfish.  If you're really attached to doing this, go ahead, i'm not going to stop you.  Just tell your guests what the real situation is first.  If they don't agree with it, they won't come.  Simple as that.  The lying is what is offensive and rude.  Just don't do it.

 

And if you're reasoning for lying is "the guests don't have any right to know our personal life" then why on earth are you inviting these people to witness your marriage?  Is that not personal?  THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.  I'm guessing that these guests who have no right to know about your personal life are only being invited so that you can get gifts from them?

 

For the love of god, don't liken "considering" yourself to be married to "considering" yourself to be engaged or dating.  Only one of these is an actual legal status - it's not about opinions, it's a legal fact.  For example, I am a US Citizen.  If i decide tomorrow to start "considering" myself an Italian citizen, you better believe I can't just pack up and move to Italy permanently.  Because regardless of consideration, citizenship is a legal fact, and I am not, in fact, Italian.

 

I don't even want to get started on how terrible it is for people to have the "it's just a piece of paper" attitude when so many couples are denied the ability to get that piece of paper.  it makes me sick.

lyndausvi

Sabinus15 said:

JCBride2014 said:

Sabinus15 said:

lyndausvi said:

I forgot say in an earlier reply that even if the legal wedding is out in the open I really side-eye people claiming it wasn't "real" or it's "only a piece of paper" or other similar ridiculous claims.   

Don't get me wrong I totally see how someone would feel their PPD religious ceremony is as important as the legal one to them emotionally, but if it was more important or considered the "real" one then you would not have had the legal one first.  

 It's like some people are embarrassed  that they are in that situation of having to get married earlier than planned that they go into denial and convince themselves it's not really important.  When we all know if it wasn't important it would have never been done.

I side-eye people who discount others' spiritual/religious beliefs as trivial, whatever they may be. 

If you don't consider yourself married, then you are not married. If I don't consider myself engaged, than I am not engaged. If two people do not consider themselves dating, then they are not dating. If someone is given an engagement ring, but does not consider themselves engaged, it is just a ring. For people who do not consider themselves married, a legal ceremony is just signing paperwork. These are deeply personal decisions and the meaning to the couple is directly relevant to its importance. If papers are signed for a legal/financial purpose, then I don't think it should be viewed as just as/more important than a religious ceremony if that is the only reason it was signed and the couple is religious. Basically, if the couple does not consider it to be a wedding, and they do not consider themselves married, then it is not a wedding. 

These statements are objectively false.  Marriage is a legal status, which you cannot change just by thinking one way or the other.  The legal ceremony makes you married.  Saying the couple can "consider" themselves married or unmarried is like saying someone can "consider" themselves a legal citizen of a country.  Your internal consideration doesn't matter.  It's just a fact that the couple is married, and it's just a fact that I am a legal citizen of the US and not of France.  I can "consider" myself a citizen of France all I want, but my legal status would remain unchanged.  And I can't "consider" myself not a citizen of the US, and renounce my citizenship just with my mental gymnastics.  The law doesn't work that way.  Either you are or you aren't, and the actual legal wedding (whether JOP or whatever else) is what changes your status.

Other posters have made great points about the hypocrisy and lying so I will just say, ditto.  But this willful ignorance of how the law works made me cringe.

You would be 100% correct if everyone considered marriage to be a legal agreement only, but it is much more than that to many people. If someone has the religious belief that a true, binding wedding can only be witnessed in a religious way, than their legal status is irellevent.  Well if it's irrelevant than why even have the legal status?  They could just have the religious ceremony and call it a day.  

Kauris

My uncles consider themselves married, but guess what, if something were to happen to one of them, that paperwork that you "just sign" is worth a whole lot more than you can appreciate, clearly. 

They have been together probably longer than some of you have been alive and it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law that they consider themselves married, because they don't have a piece of paper giving them the rights that so many on this thread TAKE FOR GRANTED. So please stop saying it's just a piece of paper. That is insulting on so many levels to so many people.

Jen4948

18 pages, and the argument is still going on?

People, a marriage certificate, whether it's a legal document, a religious document, or whatever, is NOT "just a piece of paper."  It doesn't matter if you "feel" married or not, without that piece of paper, you AREN'T married.  And if you do have that piece of paper, no subsequent ceremony is your "wedding," regardless of how "unmarried" you feel.

grumbledore

Sabinus15 said:

mobkaz said:

Jells2dot0 said:

lyndausvi said:

And by default, those who don't know are on the page we want want them on. 

Nothing says friendship then to have your feelings manipulated.

I was just going to point this statement out. My jaw dropped when I read it. It is so unfair, disrespectful, and inconsiderate that she believes she has the power to eliminate free will and make decisions for people who she supposedly cares about and wants in her life. This is extremely indicative of someone who is immature, selfish, and naricisstic. Of course, because of what this indicates, this means that anything we say is just a total lost cause.

And this is why we really need to let this sleeping dog lie (no pun intended because this attitude is beyond disgusting).  She relishes in our reactions and it only fuels her egocentric mindset.

I disagree with your opinions. Guests are not entitled to know the details of your personal life, and if a couple decides they don't want to tell everyone exactly when or why they get married, then that's their business. It's their life, their marriage, they live with the consequences, good or no, and if they decide that this is the best option for them, then good for them for sticking to their guns.

What a disgusting perspective. Why invite people to witness your marriage if you don't think they should be involved? It's fine to keep your business secret as long as you don't involve other people in it. A PPD, by definition, involves people other than the couple.

Not to mention, imo, a marriage is a social contract, not just between a couple, but between a couple and their friends and family. You invite witnesses to share your joy, but also to show support and that support doesn't end when everyone goes to sleep that night.

grumbledore

.

Sabinus15

kasmith1 said:

My uncles consider themselves married, but guess what, if something were to happen to one of them, that paperwork that you "just sign" is worth a whole lot more than you can appreciate, clearly. 

They have been together probably longer than some of you have been alive and it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law that they consider themselves married, because they don't have a piece of paper giving them the rights that so many on this thread TAKE FOR GRANTED. So please stop saying it's just a piece of paper. That is insulting on so many levels to so many people.

I'm not saying it is just a piece of paper, but that some people believe that it is, and we should respect their beliefs. I don't see how it is insulting for one couple to not value something that another couple does. It does not trivialize the matter, there is only a difference in values.

Maggie0829

Sabinus15 said:

My uncles consider themselves married, but guess what, if something were to happen to one of them, that paperwork that you "just sign" is worth a whole lot more than you can appreciate, clearly. 

They have been together probably longer than some of you have been alive and it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law that they consider themselves married, because they don't have a piece of paper giving them the rights that so many on this thread TAKE FOR GRANTED. So please stop saying it's just a piece of paper. That is insulting on so many levels to so many people.

I'm not saying it is just a piece of paper, but that some people believe that it is, and we should respect their beliefs. I don't see how it is insulting for one couple to not value something that another couple does. It does not trivialize the matter, there is only a difference in values.

Yeah they believe it is just a piece of paper until something happens (a serious car accident or what have you) and they whip that sucker out and scream from the mountains "but we are married!"  So what is it?  Are you married or are you not?  Or are you only married when it benefits you?

ETA - And if that piece of paper means nothing to that couple then why even get it at all?  Oh that is right, to gain all those spousal benefits even though they don't truly see themselves as married.  Yet they are more then happy to use up those benefits to their liking.

Cookie Pusher

It does trivialize the matter when so many people can't have it. Just because some people didn't feel voting was important, did it make it right to deny women the right to vote? What about the civil rights movement? Things are important so long as the Haves keep trying to deny it to the Have Nots. Saying otherwise is insulting to the people who are fighting so hard to be treated equally.

lyndausvi

Sabinus15 said:

My uncles consider themselves married, but guess what, if something were to happen to one of them, that paperwork that you "just sign" is worth a whole lot more than you can appreciate, clearly. 

They have been together probably longer than some of you have been alive and it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law that they consider themselves married, because they don't have a piece of paper giving them the rights that so many on this thread TAKE FOR GRANTED. So please stop saying it's just a piece of paper. That is insulting on so many levels to so many people.

I'm not saying it is just a piece of paper, but that some people believe that it is, and we should respect their beliefs. I don't see how it is insulting for one couple to not value something that another couple does. It does not trivialize the matter, there is only a difference in values.

I respect people who do not drink or don't show their hair or doesn't wear pants or they can't work on the Sabbath, etc.   I draw the line at respecting people not believing in a legal marriage they choose to enter into on their own to gain spousal benefits.  If they don't believe it why do it at all?