Customs and Traditions

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2

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  • Jen4948 said:



    mimiphin said:

    Well we could talk you out of a honeymoon registry (which is tacky(!) but not 'that' bad in retrospect) but not out of a child participating in a ritual which is reserved for your future husband and is highly offensive to some?

    What I worry about most is if this 8 year old is now going to be considered the head of the family(which is why the husband breaks the glass) and what else is going to be expected of him...

    I think WW or Wedding Bee would be a better place to get validation for this dreadful idea.

    Are you honestly suggesting that this site is so superior that advice you think is shitty and people you don't agree with belong somewhere else? Or is it you and your opinions that are superior? I feel like you crossed a line here when you asked what else will be expected of her step son. I don't even care for the implications or the rudeness. What's good for one persons wedding isn't going to be for everyone's and I feel like she asked for opinions, got them, said thank you for taking the time to share your opinions, and then made a decision. I don't think you should be so cruel to someone for having a difference in opinion and honestly your posts remind me of mean spirited high school gossip on a Facebook wall, not an adult community for women who are looking for support and help and friendship while going through an amazing (and yet very taxing) life experience. Maybe some other social media would be a better place for this kind of bullying, a site for younger women.

    Clairekundinger, are you Jewish? 

    Apparently not.  If you are and practice even a little bit, you would understand why it would be so offensive of the OP to use this ritual as a "bonding" experience, let alone for a child.  That's what we tried to bring to her attention in the posts above yours.  But apparently instead of paying any attention to that, you chose to knock those of us who do understand what this ritual is about and why it's not appropriate to co-opt it the way she wanted and told her so.

    Not every ritual, especially a religious ritual, is suitable for this kind of thing, and this particular one is especially not suitable.

    None of us were "cruel," "shitty," "rude," or "superior" to have this difference of opinion or to say so, and it's hypocritical of you for you to engage in name-calling lowers yourself to the level you're claiming we're on.  Neither you nor the OP is entitled to expect us to agree with you.



    All of this. I'm not even Jewish and I find this idea horribly offensive. If I was planning on doing something highly offensive, I would hope someone on this board (or IRL) would talk me out of it before I offended someone.
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  • Jen4948 said:



    mimiphin said:

    Well we could talk you out of a honeymoon registry (which is tacky(!) but not 'that' bad in retrospect) but not out of a child participating in a ritual which is reserved for your future husband and is highly offensive to some?

    What I worry about most is if this 8 year old is now going to be considered the head of the family(which is why the husband breaks the glass) and what else is going to be expected of him...

    I think WW or Wedding Bee would be a better place to get validation for this dreadful idea.

    Are you honestly suggesting that this site is so superior that advice you think is shitty and people you don't agree with belong somewhere else? Or is it you and your opinions that are superior? I feel like you crossed a line here when you asked what else will be expected of her step son. I don't even care for the implications or the rudeness. What's good for one persons wedding isn't going to be for everyone's and I feel like she asked for opinions, got them, said thank you for taking the time to share your opinions, and then made a decision. I don't think you should be so cruel to someone for having a difference in opinion and honestly your posts remind me of mean spirited high school gossip on a Facebook wall, not an adult community for women who are looking for support and help and friendship while going through an amazing (and yet very taxing) life experience. Maybe some other social media would be a better place for this kind of bullying, a site for younger women.

    Clairekundinger, are you Jewish? 

    Apparently not.  If you are and practice even a little bit, you would understand why it would be so offensive of the OP to use this ritual as a "bonding" experience, let alone for a child.  That's what we tried to bring to her attention in the posts above yours.  But apparently instead of paying any attention to that, you chose to knock those of us who do understand what this ritual is about and why it's not appropriate to co-opt it the way she wanted and told her so.

    Not every ritual, especially a religious ritual, is suitable for this kind of thing, and this particular one is especially not suitable.

    None of us were "cruel," "shitty," "rude," or "superior" to have this difference of opinion or to say so, and it's hypocritical of you for you to engage in name-calling lowers yourself to the level you're claiming we're on.  Neither you nor the OP is entitled to expect us to agree with you.


    I don't see any name calling in my post. I do see bullying behavior on this thread. I think a line got crossed when the step son got brought into it and what else would be expected of him. Also the following post asking if he would do the garter toss. I almost feel like that is inappropriate! And it is bullying. I wouldn't let my kid talk to her peers like that and I hope if she sees someone else being bullied for having a different opinion she speaks up. I'm not Jewish, I'm not offended however when people get married in a church and aren't Christians, I don't get offended when people cross themselves who aren't catholic, i have never been offended by people who are not catholic taking communion and I think that's a pretty big one. Tolerance is something my Jesus teaches a lot.

    The OP asked for opinions not to be bullied and I will not feel bad about standing up and saying that how this post escalated was wrong.

  • Well we could talk you out of a honeymoon registry (which is tacky(!) but not 'that' bad in retrospect) but not out of a child participating in a ritual which is reserved for your future husband and is highly offensive to some?

    What I worry about most is if this 8 year old is now going to be considered the head of the family(which is why the husband breaks the glass) and what else is going to be expected of him...

    I think WW or Wedding Bee would be a better place to get validation for this dreadful idea. Did I say that she should go and never come back? No I just stated that WW or Bee would give her validation and the "It's YOU'R DAY HONEY!" that she is looking for.

    Are you honestly suggesting that this site is so superior that advice you think is shitty and people you don't agree with belong somewhere else? Or is it you and your opinions that are superior? Nope you missed the point I feel like you crossed a line here when you asked what else will be expected of her step son. So be that but I stand by what I said. I don't even care for the implications or the rudeness. What's good for one persons wedding isn't going to be for everyone's and I feel like she asked for opinions, got them, said thank you for taking the time to share your opinions, and then made a decision. I don't think you should be so cruel to someone for having a difference in opinion and honestly your posts remind me of mean spirited high school gossip on a Facebook wall, not an adult community for women who are looking for support and help and friendship while going through an amazing (and yet very taxing) life experience. Maybe some other social media would be a better place for this kind of bullying, a site for younger women. Really, Are you kidding me? Pot, meet kettle.  
    Clairekundinger, are you Jewish? 

    Apparently not.  If you are and practice even a little bit, you would understand why it would be so offensive of the OP to use this ritual as a "bonding" experience, let alone for a child.  That's what we tried to bring to her attention in the posts above yours.  But apparently instead of paying any attention to that, you chose to knock those of us who do understand what this ritual is about and why it's not appropriate to co-opt it the way she wanted and told her so.

    Not every ritual, especially a religious ritual, is suitable for this kind of thing, and this particular one is especially not suitable.

    None of us were "cruel," "shitty," "rude," or "superior" to have this difference of opinion or to say so, and it's hypocritical of you for you to engage in name-calling lowers yourself to the level you're claiming we're on.  Neither you nor the OP is entitled to expect us to agree with you.
    I don't see any name calling in my post. I do see bullying behavior on this thread. I think a line got crossed when the step son got brought into it OP was the one who brought stepson into it by having him break the glass, I had/have a legitimate concern for the poor kid  and what else would be expected of him. Also the following post asking if he would do the garter toss. I almost feel like that is inappropriate Just like him stepping on the glass!! And it is bullying- Then you don't know what bullying is, "we" were not name calling, telling her to "Get off the site"  . I wouldn't let my kid talk to her peers like that and I hope if she sees someone else being bullied for having a different opinion she speaks up. I'm not Jewish, I'm not offended however when people get married in a church and aren't Christians, I don't get offended when people cross themselves who aren't catholic, i have never been offended by people who are not catholic taking communion well Congratulations, but as stated on this post earlier people do get offended and I think that's a pretty big one. Tolerance is something my Jesus (Not even going to touch this one) teaches a lot. The OP asked for opinions which we gave, she didn't like and just wanted validation for a bad idea, TK is not somewhere to get a pat on the back for a bad Idea WW and WeddingBee are. not to be bullied (which didn't happen) and I will not feel bad about standing up and saying that how this post escalated was wrong. And that's your right to say, but as I said before, I stand by every I said and HOW I said it.
     

    doeydo
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston
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    Well we could talk you out of a honeymoon registry (which is tacky(!) but not 'that' bad in retrospect) but not out of a child participating in a ritual which is reserved for your future husband and is highly offensive to some?

    What I worry about most is if this 8 year old is now going to be considered the head of the family(which is why the husband breaks the glass) and what else is going to be expected of him...

    I think WW or Wedding Bee would be a better place to get validation for this dreadful idea.

    Are you honestly suggesting that this site is so superior that advice you think is shitty and people you don't agree with belong somewhere else? Or is it you and your opinions that are superior? I feel like you crossed a line here when you asked what else will be expected of her step son. I don't even care for the implications or the rudeness. What's good for one persons wedding isn't going to be for everyone's and I feel like she asked for opinions, got them, said thank you for taking the time to share your opinions, and then made a decision. I don't think you should be so cruel to someone for having a difference in opinion and honestly your posts remind me of mean spirited high school gossip on a Facebook wall, not an adult community for women who are looking for support and help and friendship while going through an amazing (and yet very taxing) life experience. Maybe some other social media would be a better place for this kind of bullying, a site for younger women.
    Clairekundinger, are you Jewish? 

    Apparently not.  If you are and practice even a little bit, you would understand why it would be so offensive of the OP to use this ritual as a "bonding" experience, let alone for a child.  That's what we tried to bring to her attention in the posts above yours.  But apparently instead of paying any attention to that, you chose to knock those of us who do understand what this ritual is about and why it's not appropriate to co-opt it the way she wanted and told her so.

    Not every ritual, especially a religious ritual, is suitable for this kind of thing, and this particular one is especially not suitable.

    None of us were "cruel," "shitty," "rude," or "superior" to have this difference of opinion or to say so, and it's hypocritical of you for you to engage in name-calling lowers yourself to the level you're claiming we're on.  Neither you nor the OP is entitled to expect us to agree with you.
    I don't see any name calling in my post. I do see bullying behavior on this thread. I think a line got crossed when the step son got brought into it and what else would be expected of him. Also the following post asking if he would do the garter toss. I almost feel like that is inappropriate! And it is bullying. I wouldn't let my kid talk to her peers like that and I hope if she sees someone else being bullied for having a different opinion she speaks up. I'm not Jewish, I'm not offended however when people get married in a church and aren't Christians, I don't get offended when people cross themselves who aren't catholic, i have never been offended by people who are not catholic taking communion and I think that's a pretty big one. Tolerance is something my Jesus teaches a lot. The OP asked for opinions not to be bullied and I will not feel bad about standing up and saying that how this post escalated was wrong.
    I don't know what your Jesus teaches you, but apparently we're always supposed to agree with bad ideas?  That doesn't happen in the real world, and it doesn't happen here.

    Nobody here was "bullying."  You seem to be confusing "disagreeing" with "bullying."  Unlike you, we didn't engage in name-calling, issue threats, or try to make her feel bad-we merely told her that her idea was bad and why.  Despite her claiming she wanted "opinions," what she wanted was validation which nobody is entitled to, and which we don't award for bad ideas.  If anyone in this thread was doing any "bullying," it's you!
    mimiphindoeydomaryemoo
  • Jen4948 said:
     
    I don't know what your Jesus teaches you, but apparently we're always supposed to agree with bad ideas?  That doesn't happen in the real world, and it doesn't happen here.

    Nobody here was "bullying."  You seem to be confusing "disagreeing" with "bullying."  Unlike you, we didn't engage in name-calling, issue threats, or try to make her feel bad-we merely told her that her idea was bad and why.  Despite her claiming she wanted "opinions," what she wanted was validation which nobody is entitled to, and which we don't award for bad ideas.  If anyone in this thread was doing any "bullying," it's you!

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  • edited October 2013
    Jen4948 said:



    Jen4948 said:



    mimiphin said:




    I don't know what your Jesus teaches you, but apparently we're always supposed to agree with bad ideas?  That doesn't happen in the real world, and it doesn't happen here.

    Nobody here was "bullying."  You seem to be confusing "disagreeing" with "bullying."  Unlike you, we didn't engage in name-calling, issue threats, or try to make her feel bad-we merely told her that her idea was bad and why.  Despite her claiming she wanted "opinions," what she wanted was validation which nobody is entitled to, and which we don't award for bad ideas.  If anyone in this thread was doing any "bullying," it's you!


    Do you feel like I have bullied you? Because I would love to know how and when.

  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston
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    Figure it out for yourself, @clairekundinger - if you can stop patting yourself on the back about your so-called "tolerance" to actually read what you posted about "shitty," "cruel," "superior," and "rude," not to mention the other accusations you made which we did not do to the OP.  We didn't call her names or accuse her of anything at all.
    mimiphindoeydo
  • You seem to have taken my words out of context a little there... Or completely. If by some chance you and your friend who have tag teamed everyone here feel bullied by me, I apologize.
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston
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    You seem to have taken my words out of context a little there... Or completely. If by some chance you and your friend who have tag teamed everyone here feel bullied by me, I apologize.
    No, I went by exactly what you said.  You accused people of being superior, cruel, rude, and "shitty" because we disagreed with the OP.

    And no, I didn't "tag-team" anyone.

    If you want to make an apology that the rest of us will accept, I think you need to take responsibility for what you said in your posts and how you said it.  Oh, and lose the "if I did X I apologize" if you want your apology to be accepted.
    mimiphindoeydo
  • You seem to have taken my words out of context a little there... Or completely. If by some chance you and your friend who have tag teamed everyone here feel bullied by me, I apologize.
    If by out of context you mean people pointed out and quoted exactly what you said, then sure, it was out of context.

    YOU were the only one who called people names here.

    And I don't know any Catholics (other than apparently you if you are one) who wouldn't find it offensive for a non-Catholic couple to have communion at their wedding "because they think it's like totally cool!"  which is the equivalent of what this bride is doing.  Most people would agree that performing a sacred tradition that you don't believe in is pretty offensive.  It's along the same lines as those awful fraternity parties you hear about every few years where the guys take a culture and hijack it for the sake of a party.  It's offensive.  
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  • You seem to have taken my words out of context a little there... Or completely. If by some chance you and your friend who have tag teamed everyone here feel bullied by me, I apologize.


    I don't even know what to say to this.... I didn't tag team anyone, and you were the one who started with calling me superior, cruel, rude, and shitty.

    You also are the one who told me that "Maybe some other social media would be a better place for this kind of bullying, a site for younger women." Younger women? What in the world is that to mean? you don't know me or how old I am.

    And no there was no out of context here, you said exactly what you meant.

     

  • carly324 said:
    For our ceremony, we are keeping all religion out.  Neither my fiance or myself are very religious.  I am Jewish and he is not.  He did agree to stepping on a glass though.  Our ceremony will really just be a reflection of the two of us.  My fiance does have a son whom I love so much!  I want to incorporate him into the ceremony somehow. He is not my son but will be a step son to me.. He will be 8 years old at our wedding.  Since we are including a few "traditional" things (not religious) and since my fiance is stepping on the glass.... I was thinking about having my fiance and his son step on the glass together. 

    Thoughts??
    Text got all screwy, sorry!

    @carly324 - In all seriousness, I would suggest that perhaps you should get in touch with a rabbi (or a cantor) who would be able to explain to you just how inappropriate this would be. If you were actually having a Jewish ceremony (I know you said that you're not) if you told the officiant that you adamantly wanted your stepson to step on the glass, the rabbi would flat out refuse to marry you and your FI. While some people may not find it offensive (though many probably do, as do I), I would definitely side-eye it since you said you're not religious. It may be the "favorite" part of a Jewish ceremony, but taken out of place it's an odd, non-trendy, somber ritual to want to do.

    A similar analogy I can think of: I once went to a wedding where a white couple jumped the broom. The guests were all so stunned/confused that no one started clapping until the bride and groom were more than halfway back down the aisle. Their reasoning was that the ritual is symbolic of the wife now being "in charge of taking care of the household" or something, and that their black friends they had mentioned it to had said it was an interesting idea. Even so, it was a ritual that was terribly out of place in their wedding ceremony.
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  • MrsMack10612MrsMack10612 The Witch City
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    I am way late to this party, but @clairekundinger, you are aware that Catholics are NOT the only Christian sect that have communion, right?  Many Protestant faiths also practice that ritual.  And yes, it is absolutely offensive for non-Christians (be they Protestant or Catholic) to get married in a church; if your faith doesn't observe the act, it is offensive for non-Catholics to make the sign of the cross. 

     

     

    mimiphin
  • Offensive to whom? I didn't say that Christians as a whole were not offended, I just said that I wasn't offended. It also isn't acceptable (at least in any Catholic Church I've been to) for non Catholics, divorcees, and people who haven't taken first communion in general to take communion in the Catholic Church. I don't think that many non catholic still Christian religions have that same thought.

    There are also churches that I have seen that are amazingly beautiful (if anyone had ever been to Savannah,ga) and they are booked solid for years by Christians and non because of their historical value and just how beautiful they are.
  • @carly324, this would have been received much better if you were open to hearing some more appropriate ideas to involve a child in your wedding ceremony. This one is not appropriate. Perhaps a unity sand ceremony that involves him, or he could stand as his father's Best Man.
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  • @daveANDkristen I love that wedding picture!
  • @daveANDkristen I love that wedding picture!

    Thank you!
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  • NYCBruin said:
    Offensive to whom? I didn't say that Christians as a whole were not offended, I just said that I wasn't offended. It also isn't acceptable (at least in any Catholic Church I've been to) for non Catholics, divorcees, and people who haven't taken first communion in general to take communion in the Catholic Church. I don't think that many non catholic still Christian religions have that same thought. There are also churches that I have seen that are amazingly beautiful (if anyone had ever been to Savannah,ga) and they are booked solid for years by Christians and non because of their historical value and just how beautiful they are.
    FFS there's a world of difference between someone who holds the Catholic beliefs regarding communion but isn't following the rules exactly and someone who doesn't believe wanting communion at their wedding because they like the way it looks or something. It's offensive for someone to hijack a sacred tradition that they don't believe in and use it because they think it's cool. Especially if they are planning to bastardize the tradition like the OP in this case.
    Exactly this.

    @clairekundinger - just because YOU aren't offended doesn't mean it's ok or that it doesn't offend A LOT of people. I would be absolutely mortified if I saw this at a wedding. I'm not even Jewish. I can't imagine how speechless a practicing Jew would be if they witnessed this. Actually, there are Jewish women on this board who can and have attested to it. So there's your answer.

    Do you realize that having a child step on the glass is like an atheist wanting to have a Christening or Baptism or Confirmation for their child because they think their kid would look cute wearing white/it'd be adorable to have a priest put water on their baby's head/they want a photo of their kid on an altar holding a bible? Or a Jewish person taking communion in a Catholic church because they think the wafers and wine are delicious?

    These are all religious traditions/rituals that certain faiths hold sacred. It's extremely intrusive, disrespectful and offensive to take one and then bastardize it completely because you think it's cute.

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  • I'm sure tons of people would be offended by a lot of different things. It's been completely established that some people might find this offensive
  • I'm sure tons of people would be offended by a lot of different things. It's been completely established that some people might find this offensive
    This isn't like a thing that might offend a large number on a grand scale, making it a small percentage, this is like a thing that will offend a large percentage of people. It's not like saying "vegans are annoying" it's saying "the traditions of this culture don't ACTUALLY have any intrinsic meaning, so I'm going to do it just for show." Not cool.
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  • It's not my wedding to defend here. I'm sure people will be offended. I'm just pro choices. I'm not offended and I think that whatever this bride chooses to do once she is informed is what she chooses to do and I don't think people should talk about her 8year old Step son doing a garter toss as if it were on the same level of in appropriateness. She asked for opinions, got them, made a decision. Why does it have to be a big deal. It's not your wedding, it's not my wedding, it's not my friends wedding, and she has the right to make that choice.

    Personally I would rather have friends that made a majorly offensive mistake with the best of intentions then a person who would judge her so harshly for it.
  • maryemoomaryemoo Fort Wayne, Indiana
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    OP, as a stepmom bride-to-be myself, I can totally understand you wanting to include him, and I think it's great that you do--you are not just marrying your future hubby, you are taking on the responsibility of his child too, and it's awesome that you accept and recognize that.

    HOWEVER. Even as a non-Jewish person, NO to your idea. It WILL offend. You cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that absolutely no one will be offended by that. I am a baptized Catholic but have since renounced the religion; your idea would be akin to me going through a catholic ceremony for the show of it.

    Agree with all PPs who said that he should be a ringbearer/etc...that's what my two stepsons will be doing.

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  • I'm Jewish. I'm not offended.
    carly324Gisellerina
  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston
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    edited November 2013
    annag731 said:
    I'm Jewish. I'm not offended.
    But other Jewish people here are.  That one person who claims to be Jewish also claims not to be offended does not make it acceptable to bastardize a Jewish tradition for something it was not intended for.
    doeydo
  • annag731 said:

    I'm Jewish. I'm not offended.

    Just because you don't find it offensive doesn't mean it's ok or that it won't offend other people. FFS that's like when Fox News finds a woman to say that something isn't sexist or an African American to say something isn't racist. One person doesn't get to speak for an entire group of people's feelings. Nor can one persons "stamp of approval" negate the feelings of an overwhelming number of people who have stated that something is offensive.
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  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston
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    Looks like we got a DD.  Doesn't help your cause, @carly324.
    doeydo
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