Open Bar/Seating Logistics

kgd7357

We are doing a flat fee per person open bar that has a different price for over 21 and under 21.

This first question may be dumb, but do you include pregnant women and non-drinkers in the over 21 or under 21 count, since they aren't drinking at all?

I have several families that are coming that have a mix of over 21 and teenage kids. I plan on sitting all of them together. I know I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't sat with my brother that I don't see very often. My 16 year old teenage girl cousins seriously look much older than they are, and I think there is a good chance that they will be served alcohol. Is there a tactful way of making sure they aren't served without putting them at a different table? Has anyone been charged extra for underage guests that were accidentally served after you gave the final count? I have two concerns, legal issues and unexpected overage charges.

Jen4948

I'd include them in the over-21 count.  They may not drink alcohol but they may drink soda and other virgin drinks that might be served from the bar.

kgd7357

Under 21 will get soda and other virgin drinks from the bar too. There isn't a different under 21 bar. Not sure if this changes the answer though.

[Deleted User]

Depends on when you have to solidify your numbers at. If you have to know a few months in advanced, then count the pregnant and non-drinkers over 21 as over 21 because you never know what their circumstances will be at your wedding.

If it is required only a week before, then you can count pregnant women as under 21. But non-drinkers as over 21 because, you may not always be positive about whether or not they will drink.

Jen4948

kgd7357 said:

Under 21 will get soda and other virgin drinks from the bar too. There isn't a different under 21 bar. Not sure if this changes the answer though.

I'd still treat the adult non-drinkers as over 21.  You never know-someone among them might decide to get an alcoholic drink.

NYCMercedes

Are your guests going to be served their alcoholic beverages at the tables or are they getting up to go to the bar to get those drinks? Waiters and bartenders, especially, are used to following the law so that's on them. It seems to me you're over thinking this. Just tell the venue how many are not drinking. Edited to add that venues don't expect non-drinkers all at one table. Imagine if they put all kids at a table, or all pregnant ladies at a table.

kgd7357

@NYCMercedes

Both. There is two bar stations and wine will be served at the tables with dinner. I'm more concerned about the tables. The last family wedding I went to they just auto filled all the glasses of anyone that wasn't clearly at a kids table. Lots of 15-20 year olds were served. I'm fine with letting their parents and the venue monitor this themselves, but I was just wondering if anyone ran into trouble with this.

JoanE2012

kgd7357 said:

We are doing a flat fee per person open bar that has a different price for over 21 and under 21.

This first question may be dumb, but do you include pregnant women and non-drinkers in the over 21 or under 21 count, since they aren't drinking at all?

I have several families that are coming that have a mix of over 21 and teenage kids. I plan on sitting all of them together. I know I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't sat with my brother that I don't see very often. My 16 year old teenage girl cousins seriously look much older than they are, and I think there is a good chance that they will be served alcohol. Is there a tactful way of making sure they aren't served without putting them at a different table? Has anyone been charged extra for underage guests that were accidentally served after you gave the final count? I have two concerns, legal issues and unexpected overage charges.

I've never heard of a venue letting you provide the number of drinkers and non-drinkers.  I've only seen the option to give total headcount broken out by ages.  Otherwise, how is the venue going to be sure the guests you said were non-drinkers are truly non-drinkers?  Are wristbands going to be issued?!

kgd7357

hahah no wristbands. That would be ridiculous. They really don't check at all or keep track in anyway of who goes to the bar. I guess it's kind of an honor system. They just charge based on what you tell them as over or under age. $15/hr over age or $6/hr under age. With the exception of a couple 6 year olds everyone gets adult meals, so there is no way to tell by the menu. We have about 20 under 21 people that will get adult meals of which about 10 look over age and were served at a recent family event.

LDubHawksFan

JoanE2012 said:

kgd7357 said:

We are doing a flat fee per person open bar that has a different price for over 21 and under 21.

This first question may be dumb, but do you include pregnant women and non-drinkers in the over 21 or under 21 count, since they aren't drinking at all?

I have several families that are coming that have a mix of over 21 and teenage kids. I plan on sitting all of them together. I know I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't sat with my brother that I don't see very often. My 16 year old teenage girl cousins seriously look much older than they are, and I think there is a good chance that they will be served alcohol. Is there a tactful way of making sure they aren't served without putting them at a different table? Has anyone been charged extra for underage guests that were accidentally served after you gave the final count? I have two concerns, legal issues and unexpected overage charges.

I've never heard of a venue letting you provide the number of drinkers and non-drinkers.  I've only seen the option to give total headcount broken out by ages.  Otherwise, how is the venue going to be sure the guests you said were non-drinkers are truly non-drinkers?  Are wristbands going to be issued?!


This. Ours would only take below 21 and over 21 numbers even though we had 2 pregnant women and my dad is a recovery alcoholic and would drink anything but iced tea. You might want to check with your venue. I know it seems like you might save a lot but don't spend your time splitting hairs. The flat rate probably is founded on some people that can drink, not drinking.

happyfor25

I think the only way to handle this would be to provide them with the actual # of guests who are over 21 and those who are under 21.  I can't imagine you will have tons of pregnant women there.  You really can't be sure someone who typically doesn't drink won't have a drink or two.  As far as serving those underage, that would be the responsibility of the venue and if they screw up and serve them, they certainly can't charge you anything additional.   I think you are overthinking as well.

huskypuppy14

I wish I could include non drinkers in the under 21 count, that would be great! Also, how are you to be sure that women who are pregnant won't have a glass of champagne or wine? I know some women who when pregnant would have a glass of wine here and there, so it's not really your place to try guess whether or not they drink.

kgd7357

Hmm didn't know that. I've never been pregnant. I don't have any pregnant friends...yet. But probably will have at least a few by next summer. Man, I wish they would let you do a consumption bar. So much easier. There's just no way guests are going to drink $90 of booze each on average. Oh well.

Anyone else having mixed under over 21 tables and serving wine at the tables? Are you just not placing wine glasses at the under 21 settings?

WonderRed

We don't have the option of excluding non drinkers from the open bar tab.  We chose an open bar at X amount per person.  If a guest is 21 or older we pay their per person fee whether they choose to drink or not.

JoanE2012

kgd7357 said:

hahah no wristbands. That would be ridiculous. They really don't check at all or keep track in anyway of who goes to the bar. I guess it's kind of an honor system. They just charge based on what you tell them as over or under age. $15/hr over age or $6/hr under age. With the exception of a couple 6 year olds everyone gets adult meals, so there is no way to tell by the menu. We have about 20 under 21 people that will get adult meals of which about 10 look over age and were served at a recent family event.

I'm pretty positive your venue is not going to let you give them a count of drinkers vs non drinkers and put all non-drinkers in the under 21 category.  They're in a money making business.  That's why they specify age, not drink preference.  Why don't you just call them up and ask them to confirm?

photokitty

My venue charged pregnant women as under 21. Your venue is responsible for not serving those under 21. But other over 21are over 21 even if they are non drinkers.

manateehugger

This thread makes me grateful we're doing a consumption bar and calling it a day. 

kgd7357

@PDKH totally agree. We love the venue so much and this is their only option. And our family would flip out if we didn't have a full bar. So alas, we must pay. My parents are at least paying for any guests they added to the list. We are totally doing consumption for the rehearsal dinner. Way easier.

photokitty

I had mixed tables. People weren't served at the table, they were served at the bar. So it really didn't matter who was sitting with who because everyone had to go to thr bar gor alcohol.

SP29

With my venue, we group guests based on age (over or under 18)- doesn't matter if they drink or not (because we do have family members who do not drink), they get charged for it. Otherwise that would be hard to police who is and isn't drinking. Be prepared to pay the same price for every of-age adult, but it doesn't hurt to ask. A pregnant woman may choose to have a glass of wine, so don't assume people won't drink without asking first. Likewise, you could also run into a situation where you ask someone if they'll be drinking and they say no, but then later change their minds. 

At our wedding, and others I've been at, wine was provided on the table during meal time. Generally yes, it is up to the bartender/server to not serve under age guests. My cousin's wedding had an open bar and my aunt told us (from the venue) that anyone who looked under age would be asked for ID (most provinces here follow the rule that if you look under 25 you get ID'd), but that didn't happen to me, so I don't know if they followed through with that. 

That's an interesting question though in the case of open wine being left on the table. I guess in that case it would be their parents responsibility to police their child. But I've never heard of a venue forcing you to put non-drinkers together (thus splitting up guests and families!), nor will the venue charge you extra for those guests. Since we will be having wine on the tables, the venue has not told us we need to seat our guests in a specific way or that they'll charge us more or anything. 

That bar price is a lot!! Our bar price works out to an extra $15 per person for an open bar for the whole night. Granted, we're getting married in the off season, so that helps, but that's a HUGE difference between $15 and $90. We are also required to pay the full fee (including bar) for any adult. 

ashleyep

As far as policing your underage guests, I think you need to let the bar do their job and card guests and hope that their parents keep an eye on them. A lot of parents don't mind if their older teenagers drink at family weddings and I think you'll drive yourself crazy trying to find a way to prevent that.

melbelleup

kgd7357 said:

We are doing a flat fee per person open bar that has a different price for over 21 and under 21.

This first question may be dumb, but do you include pregnant women and non-drinkers in the over 21 or under 21 count, since they aren't drinking at all?

I have several families that are coming that have a mix of over 21 and teenage kids. I plan on sitting all of them together. I know I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't sat with my brother that I don't see very often. My 16 year old teenage girl cousins seriously look much older than they are, and I think there is a good chance that they will be served alcohol. Is there a tactful way of making sure they aren't served without putting them at a different table? Has anyone been charged extra for underage guests that were accidentally served after you gave the final count? I have two concerns, legal issues and unexpected overage charges.

For this, the bartender should ID. It will be the bartender's issue if he doesn't and the venues. For my SIL's wedding everyone was ID'd except the bridal party. She told them we were all over 21. We weren't. The guys were the girls weren't (just me and her cousin), but I still didn't drink alcohol esp. because my parents were there lol. My BF at the time did, but he was 21. Ask your venue if you can include pregnant women and non-drinkers into the under 21 pile before doing it.

ETA: They should be seated with their family/guests they know. It doesn't matter if they drink or not.

kgd7357

Thanks for the thoughts. It's sounds like it's not really my problem if the underage guests drink. I honestly don't care if their parents don't. I just don't want to get in trouble or get charged extra if they do. I'll ask about pregnant women, but it seems like I'll probably be out of luck with non-drinkers. Oh well.

And yes $90 is A LOT. At least that is with tax and service fees included (no way I'm letting any tip jars sit out). Gotta love living in DC...

MrsLillyG

kgd7357 said:

We are doing a flat fee per person open bar that has a different price for over 21 and under 21.

This first question may be dumb, but do you include pregnant women and non-drinkers in the over 21 or under 21 count, since they aren't drinking at all?

I have several families that are coming that have a mix of over 21 and teenage kids. I plan on sitting all of them together. I know I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't sat with my brother that I don't see very often. My 16 year old teenage girl cousins seriously look much older than they are, and I think there is a good chance that they will be served alcohol. Is there a tactful way of making sure they aren't served without putting them at a different table? Has anyone been charged extra for underage guests that were accidentally served after you gave the final count? I have two concerns, legal issues and unexpected overage charges.

Is there are bartender/server that would card people?  Warn them what table they are at ahead of time.  I heard that my bartenders carded a couple of my young cousins.  But I also heard that there was champagne at every place setting because I think they were poured before everyone entered the dinner room. I know I was supposed to mark at every table how many were underage but I forgot, so this was my fault.  There was not cost difference for anyone 12 or over.  So yea I think my 12 year old cousin had champagne for the first time.

ETA: I dont think you would get in trouble in a legal sense-I think the venue would.  And unless you would be really upset that you 16 yo cousins drank-its their parents problem only.

mysticl

kgd7357 said:

hahah no wristbands. That would be ridiculous. They really don't check at all or keep track in anyway of who goes to the bar. I guess it's kind of an honor system. They just charge based on what you tell them as over or under age. $15/hr over age or $6/hr under age. With the exception of a couple 6 year olds everyone gets adult meals, so there is no way to tell by the menu. We have about 20 under 21 people that will get adult meals of which about 10 look over age and were served at a recent family event.

However, they might do a head count around the room and realize that you shorted the number and tack it on to the bill.   Especially, if it seems like there is a large discrepancy between the number of adults in the room and the number you paid for.  

delujm0

i doubt you'd be able to exclude pregnant women from the over-21 total - and you definitely can't exclude non-drinkers (you can't really prove that they won't drink any alcohol).  I'd ask your venue if they'd allow you to count pregnant people as under, but i don't think they will.  These days, it's generally considered safe for women in the second and third trimesters to have a half glass of wine every so often - one of my pregnant friends did just that at a wedding last weekend.  so you can't actually guarantee that they won't drink any alcoholic beverages.

kgd7357

Yeah, but wine is included with all adult dinners, not the open bar (two different charges). I already have to pay for the wine charge for anyone with an adult meal (everyone over 10 is getting an adult meal). I figure it can't hurt to ask. If they say no, oh well. I think it'll only be two women anway. It sure would be nice to save $180 though.

KickAssMOH

We had three friends inform us of their pregnancies DURING our wedding, and two of those women had 1 glass of wine each. Not sure if that helps...but might put things into perspective for you. These things are just really hard to figure out beforehand.

golden1215

kgd7357 said:

Thanks for the thoughts. It's sounds like it's not really my problem if the underage guests drink. I honestly don't care if their parents don't. I just don't want to get in trouble or get charged extra if they do. I'll ask about pregnant women, but it seems like I'll probably be out of luck with non-drinkers. Oh well.

And yes $90 is A LOT. At least that is with tax and service fees included (no way I'm letting any tip jars sit out). Gotta love living in DC...

I'd make sure you know how the bartenders are paid/tipped before worrying about a tip jar being out. You paying a lot per person for the drinks doesn't mean that your (most likely minimum wage earning before tip) bartenders are racking all of that money in. 

kgd7357

The 22% service charge (tip) is already included in the number. 10% tax. That's why its so high. The bar charge is $68 without the tax and tip.