Complicated Army Couple

lyonstm · July 2011

Okay, so here's the deal. My boyfriend and I are currently discussing getting married and there is an engagement ring on the horizon. Here's where its complicated:

1) I am enlisted, but I am in a program that will turn me into an officer when I finish the program in 2013.

2) My boyfriend is also enlisted

3) In order for us to legally stay together, we have to get married BEFORE I turn officer. If we don't, both of us could end up with damaged careers.

4) In order for any of us to get a duty station together, and follow each other, we have to be married so we can enroll into the Army Married Couples Program (MACP).

5) If we wait too long to get married, we wont be in the army married couples program so we wont be stationed together. We are already apart NOW... and we would risk waiting an additional 3-5 years to be together if we waited because of military regulations. also highlight the fact that its illegal for an enlisted person to marry an officer.

Now that I got those sold facts out the way here is my dilemma. Because of regulations and such, we MUST do a civil ceremony. The program that I am in is academically rigorus and there is absolutely no time for me to arrange a wedding. My boyfriend is currently a Drill Sergeant so he is just as busy as I am.

I would prefer to have a formal wedding with family and friends there supporting but it cannot be done, so by the look of things we will have to do a civil wedding... BUT... I Still want to have a real wedding after all the career-madness has died down. But this would be 2 years later.

How can I arrange a wedding without causing insult to the people that we invite because we are already married? Just trying to think outside the box, why would anyone want to go to a wedding where people already know that we're married, or want to take part in a wedding shower, etc, etc...

Your input is greatly appreciated!

SarahP787 · July 2011

First of all, many members of this board consider calling the big wedding celebration a "real" wedding insulting - after all, the civil ceremony IS the REAL wedding! That's the part that makes you married, and all the rest of the stuff (reception, fancy dress, etc) is just fluff.

If you did another ceremony, it would be a vow renewal.

You wouldn't have showers for a vow renewal. As far as why people would go, I guess that depends on who you want to invite! Why *wouldn't* they want to go?

lyonstm · July 2011

The insult was not intended... When I said "real" I imply a ceremony outside of the courts. I want my father to walk me down the isle... I want to have my first dance with my husband, I want to have the wedding photos, videos, bridesmaids etc. Your constructive opinion of my situation however, is greatly appreciated.

Sammy0709 · July 2011

Tell them the truth. DH and I had at JOP last year and had a religious ceremony/vow renewal on our one year anniversary yesterday. Literally 90% of the guests we invited came. We did not, however, have a shower and we accepted donations to 2 charities in lieu of wedding gifts. As far as I know everyone had a good time and,IMO, it was beautiful despite the fact we had been married a year. I will stress that ALL our guests knew that we had been married the year before. If you have any more specific questions feel free to PM me. ETA: I know there's a lot of disagreement on what should be a part of a vow renewal but I did what I knew my family would expect so we did all the traditional stuff.

lyonstm · July 2011

Thanks, this makes the situation a bit clearer.. Of course the bachelorette party and the shower is out the window because we would have already established a home and such... Sammy did you guys have a bridal party? I still very much want to have that experience. If it weren't for our professions I would be more than happy to put it all off, but we can't.

calindi · July 2011

Hi and welcome! Please try to take all the following advice in the best possible light because you seem to genuinely want advice, and I genuinely want to help.

First, you don't HAVE to get married - you're choosing to do so. Yes, it makes things significantly easier, and in your shoes I'd probably do the same thing. So I'm not judging you or saying you're making the wrong choice. But it's still a choice, and it tends to be a pet peeve of mine when someone says the military MADE them not have a big traditional wedding but rather get married by a JOP. So just going forward, it's probably best to say that due to complicated and challenging circumstances, you are choosing to get married in a small civil ceremony even though it would not have been your preference.

Second, how old are you and how long have you both been together? If you are truly ready to get married now, not "we know we want to get married someday" but as in "if the military wasn't a factor at all, we'd still be getting married right now" and there's nothing holding you up personally, like finishing school, etc. then cool. If you're rushing before either of you are fully ready (not that you don't know you want to marry each other, but there's a big difference between someday and today) then it's best to just wait. At least a little longer until right before you become an Officer.

Third, please refrain from using the term "REAL wedding" in that way because it indirectly insults girls who chose to get married by a JOP and did not have a big white traditional wedding. I think calling it a "traditional wedding" is less offensive. Just FYI!

Fourth, you're not alone! There are girls who have gotten legally married, and then chosen to have a big traditional ceremony and reception as a vow renewal. They wore a white dress, they carried flowers, their friends and family were there, they danced with their Dad, they cut the cake... whatever! We have a girl who posted today under "Might be a Flammable Post" or something about a very similar circumstance and gave great examples of how to do a legal ceremony followed by a vow renewal in a very classy, awesome way. You'll probably have some backlash for your choice, but weddings are nothing if not controversial - there's always someone who's critical of something! Those closest to you should understand and support you if you're straight forward with them.

Good luck!

Sammy0709 · July 2011

My dad walked me down the aisle, we had a small bridal party, first dance, etc. I really think what you include that way should be what you know your guests will enjoy and your personal preference. Like I added to my last post I did know what my family would want so I included it.

ggirl2001 · July 2011

I would just have a maid or matron of honor and best man (but thats all I am having for my wedding anyway, I find big bridal parties a pain). I think the biggest suggestion you are going to find here is just to be honest with your friends and family that you are already married. You can then have a gorgeous vow renewal. Everyone here has different opinions on vow renewals. Some feel that you should not have the big poofy dress, etc. I personally don't care and would be happy to attend anyone's vow renewal no matter how it was done, as long as they are honest about being married.

lyonstm · July 2011

All of you ladies have supplied some real good advice, thank you for all of your input and not cat-scratching me when I said. "real". I have edited my first post. You gals are great.

Calindi:

Im 29, never married. My BF and I have been together almost a year. It it weren't for the military regulations I would be happy with a long engagement. But because of the military regulations and the fact that if we aren't married, its unlikely we will be sent to the same duty station together. My school doesn't finish until September 2013, and he will be finished with his Drill Sergant duties in November 2012. He will then be sent to another duty station.

The army isn't making me do anything. Im defninitely a big girl when it comes to that aspect so I make no excuses for what we choose to do.

Thanks again, you ladies are awesome

calindi · July 2011

And back at'cha - thanks for not scratching our eyes out for giving advice! It sounds like you guys are doing the right thing for you, and hopefully the Army is able to station you together (I know there's never guarantees with the military, but it's a lot more likely if you're married that you'll get to stay together). Best of luck!

We tend to get a lot of very young brides who are petrified of being apart from their high school boyfriend of 8 months, so they get married in secret and blah blah blah. Then they want their "real wedding" and get pissy when we inform them that technically it's a vow renewal. There's any variation of this situation, but most of them are not nearly as well thought out, mature, and rational as you've presented yourself. It probably doesn't hurt that you've got 10 years of life experience on those little girls. This is honestly quite refreshing!

If you need help planning either your JOP or your vow renewal, we're happy to help! Are you going to invite your immediate families to see you get married?

lyonstm · July 2011

Calindi:

as far as inviting family and friends to JOP thats a detail that we haven't really discussed. We would have to figure out which state we're going to have it in because Im in TX and he is in SC. My sister would make it for sure, my other family Im not so confident about. His family is the same. We talked about a wedding between our families (MD) so everyone could make a reasonable commute, but that was for the formal "wedding". I put "wedding" in qoutes because from what it would look like, it would be a vow renewal!

lyonstm · July 2011

We have until September 2013 to figure all this out, but Im always looking to the future.

LuluP82 · July 2011

Honestly, if you have until Sept 2013 to figure it out, I'd just have the traditional wedding. It really doesn't take that long to plan.

We did a JOP followed by a church ceremony and reception, for a variety of reasons I won't get into. We were both in our late 20s/early 30s, and most definitely ready to get married (had been together 4+ years). Although I loved our weddings (it was fun to go to the courthouse and then go away for the weekend all alone, and also fun to do the whole thing with the priest and our families present) looking back on it, it would have been a whole lot easier to just do the one thing. If you were talking having to do it in the next 6 months, I'd say go for the two things. But you have a helluva long time to figure this out.

It really doesn't have to be that complicated. We still planned the whole party and everything within 4-5 months. I know Callindi just started planning and is done. I planned while starting a new, very demanding job where I travel 3 days of the week and can't do ANYTHING, and work at least 70-80 hours per week, and my H was at TBS. So I bet if you start to plan, you'll see it really doesn't take that long. Sure, you can't have a million DIY details...but you can have a lovely wedding/party. You really don't need a year dedicated to wedding planning to pull it off. I promise.

Pick an all-inclusive venue. I just had to find a photographer, a baker for the cake, a florist and musicians. It took me like a week or two to book all the vendors, and I started in August for a November date. Also, in my honest opinion...if you say you're going to wait 2 years for the "wedding" you probably won't do it. We've met at least 3 couples lately who said they were going to have a "wedding" and never did.

firsttimersluck · July 2011

Hello and welcome! Go Army!

Just a heads up, you are on the right board... Ie, we already understand the dilema of the enlisted to officer and stationing crazyness.

So messy..

That being said..
I think you are underestimating your life. You may THINK that it will die down in a couple years but.. then you'll be going to OCS, and then you'll be going to further training, and then to a new duty station, and then...
Life. Is. Busy.
My Fiance' comes and goes with the Navy every other week, I'm a ful time student in my final year of college, and we haven't had ONE relaxing weekend to be bored around the house in months. We are still planning. I understand how crazy life gets, but I just want you to keep in mind that it doesn't mean it's going to let up soon. A lot of people that get a JOP, end up not getting the wedding for this very reason. I would reconsider this, if a bigger wedding is what you really want. Family and friends can be very helpful, as can be the knot... I don't want you to miss out on something you really wanted because you thought life would simmer down and it didn't.

IF you are dead set on the JOP, and VR later, let your family and friends knwo right away. That will help them understand early and accept it sooner. It can be a hard hit to some families, but if you are honest in the beginning, that's the best you can do. To help them be involved, you could make the JOP special, too. Have your parents as witnesses.. Pick out a pretty white dress (places like davids bridal has all those bridesmaids dresses that you can get in white, which are perfect for something a litlte more casual). Find a local restaurant that will do a private room for you (we have an incredibly fancy italian place where I live that has a few seperate, pretty rooms for private parties) and do a nice dinner there with your family and close friends on your bill. These places, if they have a seperate room for you, will usually allow decorations to be brought in, so you can make it unique to you in a small way.

People will still come to your VR.. maybe not everyone. You're right on that one. But a lot of people will if it's a reason to dress up, being around friends and family, and have great booze!

LetsHikeToday · July 2011

I read your post on the other board and someone suggested for you to hire a wedding planner. If that could be part of your budget then I'd say do it. That way you can still do all your school work etc. and have a wedding planned at the same time. Honestly, we had a 14 month engagement and I found it way too long! I totally think you can plan quickly. If not that, then JOP and have a vow renewal later.

lyonstm · July 2011

Lulu, Timer and Hike all of you are dead on with my situation. I think I began to get stuck in this mindset that it could not all be done. But I think that I will just got ahead and get a planner and my sister is more than happy to do it for me. She planned her own wedding and it was absolutely beautiful. Im not dead set on the JOP, so at this point I am willing to have a long engagement and get married right before I commission because I really want to have the traditional wedding. I wont get comissioned until September/October 2013, and then after that I would need to attend Officer Basic Course, and because of my career path, I will probably deploy six months again after that. So, Im definitely aware that life will not stop getting hectic!!!

Thanks so much again for your advice.

LetsHikeToday · July 2011

Great idea about your sister! That's awesome! Honestly, I don't even think you'd have to wait that long, especially if you are worried about not being stationed together. I really think planning can be done rather quickly. I bet, if your sister is still willing, you guys could plan a wedding in 6-8 months! I'm glad you're feeling more confident in a decision.

calindi · July 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_complicated-army-couple?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3d70a9d2-2967-449b-9eef-cb9c379e8881Post:ab4ae32b-8802-4ad0-91f3-5c43f950b7d7">Re: Complicated Army Couple</a>:
[QUOTE]Lulu, Timer and Hike all of you are dead on with my situation. I think I began to get stuck in this mindset that it could not all be done. But I think that I will just got ahead and get a planner and my sister is more than happy to do it for me. She planned her own wedding and it was absolutely beautiful. Im not dead set on the JOP, so at this point I am willing to have a long engagement and get married right before I commission because I really want to have the traditional wedding. I wont get comissioned until September/October 2013, and then after that I would need to attend Officer Basic Course, and because of my career path, I will probably deploy six months again after that. So, Im definitely aware that life will not stop getting hectic!!! Thanks so much again for your advice.
Posted by lyonstm[/QUOTE]

Oh, well in that case, then yeah! Get your sister involved, hire a planner, and plan a wedding! As Lulu said, I got engaged in April and I'm already done planning. And I don't have a wedding planner, I'm doing it all myself with my Mom's enthusiastic help. Granted, I'm planning from 2000 miles away, but I think that makes it easier in some sense because I physically cannot meet with all my vendors before making a decision and signing a contract. I got most of the vendor recommendations from my local board here on TK - I wouldn't have found my DJ, my florist, my photographers, or my videographer without their suggestions! And my florist recommended my caterer, so there you go. I found my dress in a 2 day shopping spree (which you should wait until 1 year out to do because styles change and so may your tastes). All that is left now is coordinating the details with the vendors (picking table settings and menu from caterer, finalizing details on flowers, music selections for the DJ) and then just DIY projects (including the invitations) and renting a tent and chairs! And I still have 13 months still until my wedding!!! You could easily do it without the DIY projects - and any DIY things you really truly want, you can always hire a vendor from Etsy to do it for you!

I did a lot of the conversations with vendors on the phone, and you'll find most are quite flexible - I spoke with them in the evenings or on weekends. If someone's not willing to do that, to be honest I just marked them off my list because I can't be planning during the work day. And a good wedding planner can help you do all that and can narrow down vendors to only 2-3 you'd have to speak to in each category.

LuluP82 · July 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_complicated-army-couple?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:3d70a9d2-2967-449b-9eef-cb9c379e8881Post:88572719-639f-4154-8527-eaf28df5a85f">Re: Complicated Army Couple</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Complicated Army Couple : Oh, well in that case, then yeah! Get your sister involved, hire a planner, and plan a wedding! As Lulu said, I got engaged in April and I'm already done planning. And I don't have a wedding planner, I'm doing it all myself with my Mom's enthusiastic help. Granted, I'm planning from 2000 miles away, but I think that makes it easier in some sense because I physically cannot meet with all my vendors before making a decision and signing a contract. I got most of the vendor recommendations from my local board here on TK - I wouldn't have found my DJ, my florist, my photographers, or my videographer without their suggestions! And my florist recommended my caterer, so there you go. I found my dress in a 2 day shopping spree (which you should wait until 1 year out to do because styles change and so may your tastes). All that is left now is coordinating the details with the vendors (picking table settings and menu from caterer, finalizing details on flowers, music selections for the DJ) and then just DIY projects (including the invitations) and renting a tent and chairs! And I still have 13 months still until my wedding!!! You could easily do it without the DIY projects - and any DIY things you really truly want, you can always hire a vendor from Etsy to do it for you! I did a lot of the conversations with vendors on the phone, and you'll find most are quite flexible - I spoke with them in the evenings or on weekends. If someone's not willing to do that, to be honest I just marked them off my list because I can't be planning during the work day. And a good wedding planner can help you do all that and can narrow down vendors to only 2-3 you'd have to speak to in each category.
Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]

All this! Great about your sister. My venue had a list of vendors that we didn't have to use, but that were highly recommended. I started there, and ended up loving the vendors they normally used. Literally, in two days, I'd contacted everyone and booked. If your venue has a planner included (mine did) it is super easy because the planner will remind you what needs to be done! The worst for me was my dress, because I needed it so quickly, but again, I found a shop based on the DC board here that was happy to work with my timeframe without charging me extra for the "rush."

I will say, I didn't have time to comparison shop and I was blessed enough to have a generous budget, but my BFF planned a much larger, DYI, budget wedding ($5,000 for 200 ppl) in 6 months while working 2 jobs, so it's do-able. With a planner, you'll be just fine.

kyrgyzstan · July 2011

I'm hoping to commission after FI and I get married (he's enlisted, I'm a civilian). I've wanted to be a Marine for almost ten years, and FI and I have been together three years. I graduated in September.

He knew from the beginning who I wanted to become, and we had to decide together if we could be good spouses and good Marines at the same time. We got some pre-engagement counseling to make sure we both understood what we were getting into. He proposed in January, and we'll be married seven months to the day after. I work full time, and it's an odd shift (12-9 M-F), so I don't have a ton of time to do wedding stuff. The main stuff I decided on online, and just had confirmation IRL (dress, caterer, venue, videographer, etc.). It is doable to have a short engagement and be busy.

We've been very careful not to get married *because* of the Marine Corps. I want to be an officer and I wanted to have a traditional wedding, and FI just wants to be married, so we picked the date that worked best for all of those things.

SamiJoeB · July 2011

I think you're making yourself out to be way more complicated than it really needs to be.. I planned our wedding in like 6 months. It was only 40 guests or so, but still I planned it all while AD, and my FI (also AD) was stationed in another country. Plus, I'm sure if the Army thinks you've got what it takes to be an Officer, I'm sure you can plan a perfectly lovely traditional wedding, and maintain your busy life.

I've also heard of having a JOP come to a location (home, park, restaurant..) to perform the ceremony, so it doesn't just have to be You, your FI and the JOP in a bleak room in the courthouse, it could be really nice. Best of Luck and Welcome to the Board!!

lyonstm · July 2011

Sami:

I agree with you. Im starting to believe its not going to be as bad as I thought. Thanks for all your input!

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