Christian Weddings

Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP

2

Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP

  • fpaemp2011fpaemp2011 member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:b04fe716-ad2f-45e0-a6a2-d4024fd60761">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]Thanks Emily!! I knew you couldn't track while on BC. I just wanted to start getting information now so I would be able to make a better decision on if we want to go off BC and try NFP later.
    Posted by faith415[/QUOTE]
    No problem.  Also, since I forgot to say this earlier, if you (anyone) decide to go off BC and start charting, TCOYF recommends using barriers every single time or totally abstaining for at least 3 full cycles while you and your DH learn charting and your basic pattern.  Each month may vary, but it will take a few cycles to learn if you ovulate around CD10, or CD14, or CD20.  NFP is <strong>NOT </strong>the Rhythm method.

    For those who are engaged, TCOYF recommends charting at least 3 full cycles before the wedding.  I started charting in January and felt pretty confident in interpreting the chart when we got married in June.
  • mrandmrsbristmrandmrsbrist member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    I don't get why those that use NFP or FAM talk HBC down, to the point of making those who have chosen that as their method of family planning feel inferior. I mean, I don't agree with HBC and that's not the method FI and I have chosen, but I didn't want Sessions, Drama and DramaGeek to feel defensive and offended.

    I don't think people who use HBC are terrible people or that their reasons are "invalid." I don't know if you saw my thread the other day, monkeysip, but my little sister has started HBC. And while I was debating talking to her, I never would have gone in there with guns blazing telling her she was wrong for using HBC or that her reasons were invalid.
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:25ad1be2-3ebb-488d-8220-468022bb9cf1">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't get why those that use NFP or FAM talk HBC down, to the point of making those who have chosen that as their method of family planning feel inferior. I mean, I don't agree with HBC and that's not the method FI and I have chosen, but I didn't want Sessions, Drama and DramaGeek to feel defensive and offended. <strong>I don't think people who use HBC are terrible people or that their reasons are "invalid.</strong>" I don't know if you saw my thread the other day, monkeysip, but my little sister has started HBC. And while I was debating talking to her, I never would have gone in there with guns blazing telling her she was wrong for using HBC or that her reasons were invalid.
    Posted by mrandmrsbrist[/QUOTE]

    Thanks! :D I know that you guys still love me.

    I believe that HBC, FAM, NFP, and other methods are all personal chioces to be made between you and your FI/H. You choose what method works best for you and what method you are the most comfortable with. It doens't hurt to be informed though.
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  • edited December 2011
    I'm using FAM. (Similar to NFP). I am doing so because I don't like to put foreign things in my body, DH and I eat almost entirely organic food and hardly ever take medicine unless it is an emergency.
  • edited December 2011
    I'm one of those "Live and let live" people who while curious about others and their choices, thinks that 'whatever floats your boat is just fine".

    No Judgey McJudgerson from me.

    I'm sorry if anyone interpreted the presence of this poll as such.
    "Who died and made you Dagon?" - stackeye210 I'm supposed to be falling for myself...and not falling for just any guy out there in the world.....
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:25ad1be2-3ebb-488d-8220-468022bb9cf1">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't get why those that use NFP or FAM talk HBC down, to the point of making those who have chosen that as their method of family planning feel inferior. I mean, I don't agree with HBC and that's not the method FI and I have chosen, but I didn't want Sessions, Drama and DramaGeek to feel defensive and offended. I don't think people who use HBC are terrible people or that their reasons are "invalid." I don't know if you saw my thread the other day, monkeysip, but my little sister has started HBC. And while I was debating talking to her, I never would have gone in there with guns blazing telling her she was wrong for using HBC or that her reasons were invalid.
    Posted by mrandmrsbrist[/QUOTE]
    :D

    I agree with Drama, I think whatever you choose is great for <strong>you</strong>, but I don't like feeling like I'm being judged for my HBC use.  You would <em>not</em> like me off HBC.  I'm a horomonal, mood swinging, clinically depressed, panic attacking, period lacking, acne infested MESS without it.
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  • mrandmrsbristmrandmrsbrist member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    I love you girls the way you are now, irregardless of our differences. It wouldn't be very much fun to sit here and talk to a bunch of girls that are just like me, making the same choices I am.

    I agree about the feeling defensive. No one should have to feel that way. I think we can all talk without someone feeling like they're wrong or that their reasoning for their life choices aren't acceptable.
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  • edited December 2011
    That's the thing. If we all agreed and were singing "Kum-ba-ya", 24/7 I'd become extremely bored and run off to Etiquette Board on a permanent basis.

    (Hint: They aren't bad. They just take some getting used to.)
    "Who died and made you Dagon?" - stackeye210 I'm supposed to be falling for myself...and not falling for just any guy out there in the world.....
  • xstarx05xxstarx05x member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011

    We’re trying to hold off on kids for a few years (1, want to enjoy being newlyweds, 2, want more financial stability) and limit the size of our family (2-4 kids) but we definitely don’t have total control over it!  

    We usually just withdraw & on rare occasions use condoms. We know that’s very ineffective, but we know whatever happens will be part of God’s plan.

    Won’t use HBC and haven’t tried FAM. I am not judging anyone who uses HBC! But I am uncomfortable with using it because I feel is an abortifacient contraception. I actually posted something about it a while ago…

    http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_birth-control

    The primary effect of HBC is to inhibit ovulation, but it also reduces the endometrium lining. As we know, HBC is not 100% effective, so ovulation may occur and be followed by conception. So what happens if the fertilized egg can’t attach to the endometrium? It will be deprived of nourishment and die because of HBC.

    This is a scary risk that few are aware of. So if you believe that life begins at conception, you might want to rethink how you feel about HBC!


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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    Sorry, I've been away from the computer all day.

    But I feel the need to clarify what I said and somewhat defend myself.

    @ sessions

    Again, like I told Dramageek, this has nothing to do with me making judgments about people.  You and I disagree over the purpose of marriage and sex.  *IF* you believed as I do, that marriage and sex were created for children, then you would also agree that there needs to be a serious reason for a couple to avoid children.  I am not here to judge who has a valid reason or not.  Only the individual couple can know their own circumstances and know whether it is okay to avoid or not.  But my point is that generally, we should avoid children when we can't properly care for them, not because they're unwanted.  If you don't want children, then according to my beliefs you wouldn't be married, because marriage is for children.  Again, I understand that this is a very unpopular belief, even among christians now.  But the OP asked what my beliefs are, so I'm giving my beliefs.  

    To everyone else more generally, there is a big difference between judging an action and a person.  As christians we are called to judge actions all the time... it's called discerning right from wrong.  I feel very strongly that contraception is wrong, so of course I'm going to judge the action.  But like I tried to say before, just because someone is using contraception doesn't mean that they are a bad person, a bad christian, a selfish person, etc.  You just have different beliefs than I do.  But having different beliefs doesn't make you better or worse than me.

    As for Paul's scripture about denying each other... I don't think you can take that as literally meaning you can never delay sex except for prayer and fasting.  There are plenty of instances where a couple may decide to abstain for sex for a while, but Paul is admonishing couples who would do so for selfish reasons ("I want to get back at my husband so I'm holding out on sex" or "I think my wife gained too much weight so I'm not having sex with her.")  Contraception was never permitted in jewish or early christian culture, so the new testament writers hardly felt it necessary to address the issue.  Early christian writings constantly condemn it, and, In fact, contraception was never permitted in any christian denomination until 70 years ago.  

    @ Drama1308

    I'm sorry, but I can't help but find it odd that you want to have sex naturally, the way God intended, without charting and abstaining, but you want to have sex while your body has been medically made sterile and take away your God-given fertility.  I'm sorry if that seems judgmental, but you seem to be implying that NFP is somehow going against nature or what God has created.  It is the complete opposite.  NFP works with the sterility that God has naturally given us for a few days every cycle.  NFP allows a woman to explore and understand the cycle God gave her, but never destroy it with chemicals.

    Sorry this is long, and I'm sorry that it seems like I'm being judgmental.  I'm honestly not trying to be, but I think it sounds that way because I'm saying a very unpopular opinion.  My main point is just that my strong beliefs against contraception are not arbitrary but rooted in a greater structure of beliefs around marriage and sex.  It is these beliefs that we really need to be analyzing if we are to better understand each other's positions.  If I sound judgmental towards anyone, it is not because I think any of you are any less of a person for choosing BC, in fact, many of you may be much holier christians than I'll ever be.  But I truly believe that contraception is not just wrong, but truly harmful to women and society, so I can't help but have very passionate feelings against it.

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  • mrandmrsbristmrandmrsbrist member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:4093a7e8-ceed-4100-8d21-82fc0ca1c483">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]That's the thing. If we all agreed and were singing "Kum-ba-ya", 24/7 I'd become extremely bored and run off to Etiquette Board on a permanent basis. (Hint: They aren't bad. They just take some getting used to.)
    Posted by letyourselfgo[/QUOTE]

    You want to see Kum-ba-ya? Check out my month board. *shudder*

    I wasn't implying that we all need to get along and agree on everything. But I think you can share opinions (espeically about serious life choices) without making people feel like crap.
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  • mrandmrsbristmrandmrsbrist member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    Monkeysip: OP asked you what your beliefs were. Not to criticize the "other side."
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  • monkeysipmonkeysip member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In order to share WHY I believe what I do, I have to criticize using contraception because that's the most essential reason for why I use NFP.  If contraception were a good thing to me, I'd use it.

    Again, I'm not criticizing PEOPLE but ACTIONS.  Which I think should be perfectly acceptable on these boards.  I think people are being hypocritical here.  On the baptism board, several people said they thought baptizing an infant was wrong.  Well, guess what, I want to baptize my future infants, but do you see me getting my panties in a wad?  I'm perfectly secure in my life choices to not get upset when someone criticizes them.  As long as no one is insulting each other, I think we can disagree over life choices.

    What's really odd is that at a first you said that I "put it better than you could have."  Now you're criticizing my post.  I don't get it.

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  • BronwynHBronwynH member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Could someone PM me with some more information about NFP or FAM? It's something we might decide to try. I've not started taking HBC yet.
  • fpaemp2011fpaemp2011 member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:58f66f52-2c10-44d5-b949-09e79fb17f0a">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]Could someone PM me with some more information about NFP or FAM? It's something we might decide to try. I've not started taking HBC yet.
    Posted by BronwynH[/QUOTE]
    I'll PM you in a minute and page you when it's sent.
  • mrandmrsbristmrandmrsbrist member
    1000 Comments Second Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    I agreed with your first post. But then you kept going, and going, and going...
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  • iamjoesgurliamjoesgurl member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    We use BCP, partially because we are trying not to get pregnant but also because, like Sessions, I need birth control to avoid severe cramping, migraines and other symptoms.  I could not take BCP and deal with those symptoms, but I'd prefer not to.  

    I am in the boat where DH does not want children and I feel like if God had a different plan for us, he would change DH's heart.  If marriage and sex was purely for the purpose of conceiving, then I don't believe that God would have allowed infertility and I also feel that He made it for our enjoyment.    

    I understand that everyone has their own opinion or interpretation of this and other biblical issues.  I also appreciate that we can agree to disagree.
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  • DramaGeekDramaGeek member
    2500 Comments 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Monkeysip, I don't think anyone takes issue with your beliefs.  I know that, for me, the way your post was worded was off putting.  It came across as very accusatory.  You may be judging the actions, not the people, but it came across to me as if you were judging the people.
  • edited December 2011
    i believe that sex is made for babies ... but also that sex is to be enjoyed.
    (;

    i am in HBC. I never heard of NFP until i came in contact with the lovely Emily. I researched it more and spoke with FI about it. 
    I was on the pill when i was first researching it and the pill made me VERY moody! (we were not sexually active but i started HBC about 6 months before the wedding date so that i could try it out and find one i liked before the wedding. I did not like the hormones making me all crazy so i wanted to find an alternative. 

    When i explained it to my FI a little more we were a little concerned. We have been able to abstain for moral reasons and not give into our temptation.... but after we are man and wife? i am not sure we will have that much self-control. Like Emily mentioned... its abstaining from intercourse and not intimacy... but i dont trust myself. lol.

    i found a HBC that i like and i have less side effects on it. I am happy with it. 
  • edited December 2011
    I'm like several PPs - the pill has changed my life for the better in so many ways. I have PMDD and was completely losing the ability to control my symptoms as they got worse and worse. It's refreshing to not have a few days of suicidal depression each month. FI and I regard this medication as a gift from God.

    We've also done our research, prayed about it, used ovulation tests, and are content that my particular pill is doing it's job - I'm not ovulating. We truly believe that God approves of this BC method for us until FI has a job and I am done with my PhD program.

    Many PPs have commented that God is powerful enough to have them get pregnant even while on BC - I'll add that I believe God is also powerful enough to help my pill work properly so that I don't have to live in fear of the 1% chance I will ovulate, the 0.5% change it gets fertilized, and the 0.25% chance that embryo is unable to attach properly.

    @monkeysip - I think people can feel judged or attacked because of words like "wrong", "harmful to women and society", etc. You equated judging HBC with "discerning right from wrong" which is a very wide brush stroke to make. Birth control is not a universal right or wrong issue - God has different plans for everyone. It's important for you to decide what God wants for your BC method, and no one should impugn your conviction about that, but I don't think it's wise or called for to criticize or judge other methods in a general way.

     To me it would sound much less judgemental if phrased like:  "I believe contraception does _____, and I don't feel comfortable with that. God has led us to the conclusion that NFP is the best choice for us."
  • edited December 2011
    I'm on HBC and H and I are planning to use barrier methods 50%-75% of the time as well to further prevent pregnancy. We are only 24 and 26, respectively, and pretty much in the beginning of our careers, and it would not be good for us or the child to have an addition to the family right now. I'm not crazy about the pills (because my boobs are HUGE now ... almost comically so), but hubby and I are very very active in the intimate sense, and we want to be able to enjoy each other completely for the time between now and when we will start to try for children.
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:eeea94af-95e5-4dea-8c7a-4ffa20992190">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]The primary effect of HBC is to inhibit ovulation, but it also reduces the endometrium lining. As we know, HBC is not 100% effective, so ovulation may occur and be followed by conception. So what happens if the fertilized egg can’t attach to the endometrium? It will be deprived of nourishment and die because of HBC. 
    Posted by xstarx05x[/QUOTE]

    <div>This often happens naturally though ... a woman can be pregnant dozens of times in her lifetime because pregnancy is defined as the moment of conception rather than implantation. Your body will generally "abort" all pregnancies that are not healthy or viable, or if the lining is not good, so by that token it seems like HBC doesn't necessarily do something that the body doesn't do by itself.</div><div>
    </div><div>Albeit, I am not a doctor and have a basic understanding of the body, but I just thought I would relay a little info I have learned.</div>
  • fpaemp2011fpaemp2011 member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:c81be40e-e389-497a-841b-459575e70d63">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP : This often happens naturally though ... a woman can be pregnant dozens of times in her lifetime because pregnancy is defined as the moment of conception rather than implantation. Your body will generally "abort" all pregnancies that are not healthy or viable, or if the lining is not good, so by that token it seems like HBC doesn't necessarily do something that the body doesn't do by itself.
    Posted by agape1cor813[/QUOTE]
    If God decides that a conceived child won't live, that's one thing.  But DH and I are not comfortable with putting something in my body that could kill our child(ren), even if it's teeny, tiny possibility.
  • xstarx05xxstarx05x member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    What fpaemp2011 said! :)

    I don't believe I should risk death as a result of something I do.

    Ok, so naturally, our lungs decay over time. Like all parts of our body. So should we smoke anyway?

    (Not a great comparison, but that's all i could think of)

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  • edited December 2011
    what is the difference between NFP and FAM?
  • fpaemp2011fpaemp2011 member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:028b443b-41b3-4e8b-b0fe-5956ffc81c8b">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]what is the difference between NFP and FAM?
    Posted by amongthelilies25[/QUOTE]
    NFP (Natural Family Planning) is charting with abstinence during fertile times.

    FAM (Fertility Awareness Method) is charting with barriers (condom, diaphragm, spermicide) at fertile times.
  • edited December 2011
    I guess the Libertarian in me would rather be on birth control pills (and pay for them myself) than take your tax dollars to support children that I couldn't afford.
  • edited December 2011
    oohhh okay! thanks!!! (: 
  • xstarx05xxstarx05x member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_quiverfullor-birth-controlor-nfp?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:87c56c51-380c-4075-8c22-6e222e294ce8Post:8b8ae40c-dc21-4df8-a2f3-e74739e1cab7">Re: Quiverfull......or Birth Control.....or NFP</a>:
    [QUOTE]I guess the Libertarian in me would rather be on birth control pills (and pay for them myself) than take your tax dollars to support children that I couldn't afford.
    Posted by agape1cor813[/QUOTE]

    <div>It's not about money though, it's about life. If there wasn't the risk of death, then I'd probably be on HBC too. I don't want kids yet and money is one of the reasons (I even wrote a post on that a week ago!) but there's a lot of things in my life I didn't want and I'm in a better place for it. But who knows, maybe God doesn't want me to have kids yet either! Sometimes we just have to let go and let God, which is way easier said than done. As humans, we strongly desire to be in control.</div>

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  • edited December 2011
    Whatever, I don't care what any of you do, as long as I don't have to pay for it.
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