second guessing my +ones

MrsMack10612 · January 2013

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just said I find it peculiar.

I've never met anyone who, once they became exclusive, did not consider themselves a social unit. And I can't understand why you wouldn't want to.

Again, it's an unfamiliar train of thought that I'm trying to understand.

Maggie0829 · January 2013

I am at a loss for words.

OP, you need to invite anyone who is in a relationship together. That means if they are married, engaged, living together, not living together, been a couple for a month or a couple for a decade. If the two say that they are in a relationship, no matter if you think it is serious or not because it is not your place to judge that only the couples place, they need to be invited together. Period.

Jen4948 · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:e12442cd-7e43-4a0f-abd5-34289c16754e">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just said I find it peculiar. I've never met anyone who, once they became exclusive, did not consider themselves a social unit. And I can't understand why you wouldn't want to. Again, it's an unfamiliar train of thought that I'm trying to understand.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

It's simply because it's only been relatively recently that either of us chose to assume that we are an exclusive couple. For most of our relationship, it's been on the basis of "either of us can date someone else if we wanted to."

Also, I myself can understand if people have issues with tight budgets or space limitations, and I don't need to push myself forward and say "I'm half of a couple and therefore I need to be invited with him if you invite me." I am not going to get pissed off because someone doesn't want to invite us together. He feels the same way. We are willing to give others the benefit of not feeling <em>forced</em> to invite us as a couple if for whatever reason it's not practical to invite everyone they want with a date. Should we get engaged, married, or live together, or otherwise decide that we have to be treated as a social unit, <em>then</em> I'm sure we would feel annoyed if we are not invited together. But at the moment, our relationship hasn't reached that stage.

Jen4948 · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:1486bd2b-1881-438a-a162-041c305749cb">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry Jen, but I don't get it either. If you aren't a social unit until the families have met, how will they ever meet? It would be weird to travel across country to introduce some guy that isn't your SO to your parents. If you don't consider yourselves a social unit until you are engaged, would it be weird to agree to marry a person you don't consider yourself in a serious relationship with? If it works for the two of you, then that is fine, but I think what works for you is unlikely to work for the majority of couples dating exclusively but not engaged or living together.
Posted by Liatris2010[/QUOTE]

As I've said, we can break up at any time and stop dating each other exclusively. We've left it loose. The only people who have to understand that are the two of us-which is why I don't think we're a social unit. We haven't made any kind of declaration that "world, we're a social unit, you have to invite us together and see us as a couple." When we do visit my family, which might happen later this year, I think that that will be our declaration that we are a social unit. We're "serious" enough that we're on the way to that point, but we're not there yet. Until then, we're still loose enough that we don't expect others to invite us together if for some reason they don't feel that they can.

NOLAbridealmost · January 2013

If someone describes the person as their partner, then that's serious enough to
be considered a social unit and the couple should be invited together. Casual
dates don't have to be invited.

But to be clear, when I use the term
"casually dating" I don't mean boyfriend/girlfriend; it's like the early
stages when you may have grabbed a coffee or had dinner once or twice with
someone, but it's unclear whether you're going to take the next step and
actually 'partner up.' KWIM?

Like, if you're aware that a
friend is "seeing someone" but your friend hasn't told anyone in
your social circle that "so and so is my partner/boyfriend/other-half/whatever"
then you don't have to invite that person with a date.

NOLAbridealmost · January 2013

Okay, what the F is up with the formatting today? First centered now all wonky with the spacing....I give up.

Jen4948 · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:d4ee6395-e549-4c60-bfcb-516a0f37aa97">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: second guessing my +ones : Yes, but anyone can do that. My sister and her bf just broke up. He came to Christmases and Thanksgivings and on family vacations, and they were still able to break up. Again, I think this is totally fine, but just because you two feel that way about your relationship doesn't mean other couples not living together or engaged feel this way. I am quite unoffended by foul language, but I don't assume everyone else is okay with me cursing like a sailor. You are using the same logic people use when they are not offended by PPDs, honeymoon registries, cash bars, money dances, and all the other stuff I know you know better than.
Posted by Liatris2010[/QUOTE]

I have never said anywhere that couples of whatever degree of seriousness <em>can't</em> be invited together if the bridal couple wants to do that.

NOLAbridealmost · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:41365d0b-3c76-4956-94a5-8b1457b8b44b">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: second guessing my +ones : I have never said anywhere that couples of whatever degree of seriousness can't be invited together if the bridal couple wants to do that.
Posted by Jen4948[/QUOTE]

Right, but that's missing the point entirely. Etiquette says they MUST be invited together, not that they MAY be invited together "if that's what the bride and groom want to do."

ETA: Again, I have NO idea why my posts are centering; then I try to move them to the left and it gets all wonky with the spacing. Sorry. I am not trying to be all beatnik about my posts. =/

Jen4948 · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:07fc957c-e183-4a77-aabd-f129b2f164e3">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: second guessing my +ones : Right, but that's missing the point entirely. Etiquette says they MUST be invited together, not that they MAY be invited together "if that's what the bride and groom want to do."
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

No, etiquette only makes that distinction about couples who are engaged, married, or living together. If they are single and don't live together, it says nothing at all.

NOLAbridealmost · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:7be4e766-3f81-4c63-8c9d-98229eb60b34">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: second guessing my +ones : No, etiquette only makes that distinction about couples who are engaged, married, or living together. If they are single and don't live together, it says nothing at all.
Posted by Jen4948[/QUOTE]

Wrong. A committed relationship in which you don't live together is not "single." Period.

Couples that self-identify as couples MUST be invited as a couple. That's proper hosting.

Jen4948 · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:4ca89294-ac51-4d63-9e3a-eaa2bf1cf320">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: second guessing my +ones : You are missing the point entirely. You are saying, "me and my bf don't consider ourselves a social unit b/c we aren't engaged or living together, so people with bf/gfs that aren't living together or engaged don't need to be invited together". In actuality, anyone who considers themselves as part of a social unit needs to be invited with their SO. That is the same as, "I'd rather see a cash bar than a dry wedding, so cash bars aren't rude." You know that logic is flawed. Just because something doesn't personally bother you doesn't mean it is okay.
Posted by Liatris2010[/QUOTE]

No, I'm missing no points. I'm also not duking this out anymore. 'Bye!

monkeysip · January 2013

Just wanted to add that FI and I would be another couple to add to the list of why you don't judge others' relationship. We dated for almost 9 years before getting engaged, and we still don't live together because of beliefs.

But yes, we are a social unit, and should be invited as such.

Simply Fated · January 2013

Nola, your posts look fine to me, too lol.

Jen, I get that you don't consider yourself to be a social unit with yout bf and of course that's fine, but that doesn't mean other boyfriends and girlfriends don't consider themselves social units, either. You said earlier in a post that you don't judge other people's relationship statuses, but you are and you're encouraging other people to do the same. That's confusing and it's probably why this debate is going nowhere.

MrsMack10612 · January 2013

Actually you are.

The point Liatris is trying to make is that just because YOU are ok with it, doesn't mean others are. Fine you and your BF have not declared it to the world and still consider yourselves in a loose, non-social unit relationship. I can probably say with relative confidence that 99% of the rest of the couples in the world do not have that opinion. Once they've decided to be exclusive - boom! social unit.

By putting your definition of social unit on others, you are in fact judging the level of the seriousness of their relationship and that is the point that is ALWAYS made when this comes up. You cannot judge someone else's relationship based on your own, arbitrary line.

MrsMack10612 · January 2013

And my posts are centering again...stoopid TK.

[Deleted User] · January 2013

I think the point would be if it would hurt or offend your friends, you should not exclude their SOs. For most people, if they consider themselves a social unit, they should be invited or they will be offended.

It's great if you're not offended or don't consider yourself a social unit. But most people do and most people will be hurt. The point of etiquette is to make people comfortable and happy. So, to make people comfortable and happy, anyone who considers themselves a couple should be invited.

MrsMack10612 · January 2013

Sure thing.

I spend most of my time lurking these days, but most of the "good stuff" has been said by the time I get to a post and I don't want to just pile in with "yeah, what she said".

But the whole not a social unit thing was making my brain hurt, so I was inclined to jump in.

MrsMack10612 · January 2013

I've always been a first class lurker, even before I was an old married hag.

aurianna · January 2013

I think the problem is that Jen read the "no-ring-no-bring" rule in some outdated book or advice column and she now assumes it's the universal wedding etiquette rule.

We're just telling you Jen, that wherever you read it, or whoever you heard it from, it is incorrect.

Proper etiquette is welcoming all of your guests with their significant other so that you don't have half a social unit sitting at home with a tv dinner while the other half spends an evening wishing they could share a meal, a dance, and a special event with their SO.
Proper etiquette is also not judging other people's relationships with inane guidelines like no-[key]ring-no-bring, when it's already been proven just by this small random sampling of posters that that "rule" would be incredibly hurtful to a great number of people.

MrsMack10612 · January 2013

I generally have plenty I want to say, but it's usually already been said. I'm going to try to come out of lurkerdom more :

ridedatbike · January 2013

I really hate this rule. I know you guys are right but I hate it. Ive been trying to work it out in my mind but the reasoning seems so high school. No offence really. Im just trying to figure it out. Husband's/wives and fiancees make sense but the rest just don't make sense to me as a requirement.

rajahmd · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:20049aae-aac2-4d21-98f6-990e48159231">Re:second guessing my ones</a>:
[QUOTE]I really hate this rule. I know you guys are right but I hate it. Ive been trying to work it out in my mind but the reasoning seems so high school. No offence really. Im just trying to figure it out. Husband's/wives and fiancees make sense but the rest just don't make sense to me as a requirement.
Posted by ridedatbike[/QUOTE]

<div>What exactly about the reasoning seems like high school? People are just requesting that their relationships be treated with respect and accepted regardless of whether or not they're married/engaged/living together. That's not high school, that's life.</div>

aurianna · January 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:20049aae-aac2-4d21-98f6-990e48159231">Re:second guessing my ones</a>:
[QUOTE]I really hate this rule. I know you guys are right but I hate it. Ive been trying to work it out in my mind but the reasoning seems so high school. No offence really. Im just trying to figure it out. Husband's/wives and fiancees make sense but the rest just don't make sense to me as a requirement.
Posted by ridedatbike[/QUOTE]

It's because this is how it reads off as a hostess:

Hello friends! Come see me get married. Come to my reception (where you'll most likely bring me a present). I want to have a fun time spending time with you and I want you to have a fun time socializing and drinking and dancing with the person you love... unless you two don't have a piece of metal between you that signifies a good relationship. I only want married couples on my dance floor. I don't want to meet your boyfriend and girlfriends. Because there's no metal between you two, the person you may still be in a very longterm, committed relationship, isn't worth my paying for dinner. If you aren't married I really don't care if I separate you from the person you love on a Saturday night that you'd otherwise spend together and I don't care that as my guest you'd most likely have a much better time if you shared the evening with your partner.

ridedatbike · January 2013

Forgive me, I've just never read that far into into it. I've always thought of it like family vs not family. Like a married person is family and an engaged person is about to be family. The rest aren't family, so to speak. I've never thought it was undermining a relationship. I think its the way its worded really. It leaves me thinking I remember being attatched at the hip in high school but then I grew up and became independant. Again no offence I still just trying to make this requirement make sense in my mind.

aurianna · February 2013

Understandable.
You just gotta think of it more as... these are the people you want to share your day with you. You love them and want to be a good hostess to thank them for coming to your wedding, so one of the best ways to do that is to make sure they get to have their partner with them while they celebrate your joining with yours.

Jager1219 · February 2013

Only thing to add is that IMO this is similar to children being invited to weddings. In that you need a distinct rule and stick to it. No exceptions. You can't invite aunt sues kids but not uncle Johnny's just because you don't like them. Same with this. I think you got all the usual answers here about where that line is.

NOLAbridealmost · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:d585cf23-123e-40cf-bb9d-ae73c8f37d7e">Re: second guessing my +ones</a>:
[QUOTE]Only thing to add is that IMO this is similar to children being invited to weddings. In that you need a distinct rule and stick to it. No exceptions. You can't invite aunt sues kids but not uncle Johnny's just because you don't like them. Same with this. I think you got all the usual answers here about where that line is.
Posted by Jager1219[/QUOTE]

Sorry, Jager, but you're a little off here. Children are NEVER required to be invited anywhere. You can pick and choose who to include and still comport with etiquette (but you are right that clear cut offs avoid drama).

SOs on the other hand, must be invited together. Period. There's no clear cut off point that won't offend people.

LDubHawksFan · February 2013

I completely agree with PP about how hosts cannot judge the seriousness of a relationship, and myself and my husband are another example of a long relationship before marriage and I would have been offended to not have been invited to a wedding because we weren't married yet.
I think the most important thing to remember with the ol' +1 debate, in addition aurianna's spot on read between the lines of what it says to your guest, is how you would really feel in that situation. Every bride that is debating this silly distinction of how serious a relationship is, was on the other side of it not too long ago. Say you've been engaged for only 3 months, but if your FI got a wedding invite 4 months ago and you weren't invited because you weren't yet engaged, and therefore not serious, you probably would have had some hurt feelings too (unless you are Jen apparently). No matter if your relationship before the engagement was 6 months or 6 years, you reached the point of being serious with that person before the ring was presented. Take a step back from the bride who is punching numbers & budgets and put yourself in your potential guests' shoes.

lauralaur · February 2013

I will add that I attended two weddings without H while we were dating. He was invited to both but was not able to make it. It suuuuuucked attending the wedding without him, watching two people be so happy together, and I have someone like that in my life but nope, he's not here. Family and friends would ask about him and I'd say "oh well you'll have to meet him some other time."

I always, always appreciated that H was included in such events right from the start. It was nice to know that my family welcomed him, and here we are now, however many years later, and we're married! If someone gave me the vibe that suddenly they could start taking us seriously because we were engaged they'd get a pretty funny look from me.

I've just never understood not wanting to welcome significant others with open arms; these people could be future in-laws, you could be a bridesmaid in their wedding, you never know. Why not start things off right by letting them know that you acknowledge their importance to your friend/relative and that they are welcome?

[Deleted User] · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_second-guessing-my-ones?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:54ea745b-358a-42d7-b2b9-a5701497b299Post:5fbb363f-edda-4efa-8349-32765adf5752">Re:second guessing my ones</a>:
[QUOTE]Forgive me, I've just never read that far into into it. I've always thought of it like family vs not family. Like a married person is family and an engaged person is about to be family. The rest aren't family, so to speak. I've never thought it was undermining a relationship. I think its the way its worded really. It leaves me thinking I remember being attatched at the hip in high school but then I grew up and became independant. Again no offence I still just trying to make this requirement make sense in my mind.
Posted by ridedatbike[/QUOTE]

The only issue with this is that my FI was my family from when we started living together three years ago. We shared bills, a home, cat parenthood, holidays, everything. We didn't get engaged until last year due to finances and life changes. The ring didn't suddenly make him my family - he was my family far before that. So, that's where it gets tricky. You risk either offending people who are very serious and very committed and basically family if you don't invite SOs. If you only invite some, you risk the ones you don't invite feeling like you don't value or validate their relationship. It's just better, for the comfort of your loved ones, to be gracious and invite them all.

second guessing my +ones

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