What say you?

Blueyed228 · September 2012

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metro/Mass-judge-OKs-sex-change-for-inmate/-/11971628/16475880/-/1205768z/-/index.html

CN: There is an inmate in one of our prisons here who keeps suing about his gender identity disorder. The state (us taxpayers) have had to pay for his hormone treatments and now we are going to have to pay for his gender reassignment surgery. This guy is serving life in prison because he killed his wife.

What do you think? Does this fall under his 8th Amendment right to "adequate medical care"? Or is this just plain crap?

NcsuPsych · September 2012

IMO, that's a load of crap. Is she going to want to be transferred to a women's prison too?

Outside of prison, I believe it's kind of difficult for individuals to have this surgery not to mention, I *think* counseling is involved, and it's rather expensive. Plus, I'm sure some insurances don't even cover the procedure.

I don't believe this falls under 'adequate' medical care. Now. . if she wants to go chop something off and then needs some stitches. . .then sure, give some stitches. That to me would be adequate, but then again, if that were to happen, I think some psych meds would also have to be involved.

Just my opinion. .

Blueyed228 · September 2012

The thing is Dot. If im remembering correctly, this guy didnt start his hormone treatment until he was already in prison. SO maybe if he was doing this already on his own, then I might have a different view, but this is something that has been 100% funded by taxpayers. And this is something that had he not been in prison, he would have had to pay for on his own. Just like everyone else who wants gender reassignment wants to.

Blueyed228 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:0ab6c300-7382-4dcc-b3bb-51020e78137f">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]IMO, that's a load of crap. Is she going to want to be transferred to a women's prison too? Outside of prison, I believe it's kind of difficult for individuals to have this surgery not to mention, I *think* counseling is involved, and it's rather expensive. Plus, I'm sure some insurances don't even cover the procedure. I don't believe this falls under 'adequate' medical care. Now. . if she wants to go chop something off and then needs some stitches. . .then sure, give some stitches. That to me would be adequate, but then again, if that were to happen, I think some psych meds would also have to be involved. Just my opinion. .
Posted by NcsuPsych[/QUOTE]

A close friend of mine works at this prison. She is a guard there. She says that this inmate is really difficult to house since he lives as a women and is a target. So im assuming once the surgery is complete, he will be legally a women and moved to the womens facility.

NcsuPsych · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:392c8ca1-bafa-480e-85f0-b30785ad1670">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]The thing is Dot. If im remembering correctly, this guy didnt start his hormone treatment until he was already in prison. SO maybe if he was doing this already on his own, then I might have a different view, but this is something that has been 10% funded by taxpayers. And this is something that had he not been in prison, he would have had to pay for on his own. Just like everyone else who wants gender reassignment wants to.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I agree here.

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What say you? : A close friend of mine works at this prison. She is a guard there. She says that this inmate is really difficult to house since he lives as a women and is a target. So im assuming once the surgery is complete, he will be legally a women and moved to the womens facility.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

That's what I would assume. I feel like that kind of situation (staying in the mens prison) is just asking for serious trouble.

Blueyed228 · September 2012

I meant 100% taxpayer funded, lol. Not 10%.

My friend was telling me stories about the prison the other day. I was horrified. The special treatments, the things they are allowed to do. It amazed me.

[Deleted User] · September 2012

Bull...

Gender Identity disorder is definately a medically treatable condition. However, it is not life and death. I do believe it can cause depression, but there are much less expensive medications to treat depression than having tax payers fund his gender reassignment surgery.

SunriseAmber · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:392c8ca1-bafa-480e-85f0-b30785ad1670">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]The thing is Dot. If im remembering correctly, this guy didnt start his hormone treatment until he was already in prison. SO maybe if he was doing this already on his own, then I might have a different view, but this is something that has been 100% funded by taxpayers. And this is something that had he not been in prison, he would have had to pay for on his own. Just like everyone else who wants gender reassignment wants to.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 100%. I think it might be a different story if he had already taken steps for this. Maybe he wants to get out of this prison and go to the womens facility. Is the womans facility any different? Less brutal? I just give the whole thing side eye.

NicoleSahara · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:78094e5a-da90-43ba-84ed-dd9ccc1c5046">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What say you? : I agree with this 100%. I think it might be a different story if he had already taken steps for this. Maybe he wants to get out of this prison and go to the womens facility. Is the womans facility any different? Less brutal? I just give the whole thing side eye.
Posted by SunriseAmber[/QUOTE]

This is a good point. What's to stop other guys from doing this to get into the women's facility? Or if you want this treatment, just go kill someone and then the taxpayers will cover it for you. I think this is ridiculous.

musicalsunlight · September 2012

I have a hard time believing that he (or any other inmates) is doing it JUST to get out of the mens facility. Gender reassignment is a huge deal and people who don't truly believe that they are the opposite gender aren't going to just start doing it in prison because they can for free. I think that is a little ridiculous to say and insulting to people who actually have the issue.

That said, I don't believe that he should be able to get the entire procedure paid for.

Blueyed228 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:d6e208cc-8903-42ea-9abb-84458ab50657">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]I have a hard time believing that he (or any other inmates) is doing it JUST to get out of the mens facility. Gender reassignment is a huge deal and people who don't truly believe that they are the opposite gender aren't going to just start doing it in prison because they can for free. I think that is a little ridiculous to say and insulting to people who actually have the issue. That said, I don't believe that he should be able to get the entire procedure paid for.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]

Then why did he not start suing until he was in prison for 7 years already. We pay for all his court stuff regarding this, laser hair removal, hormone injections (which I promise you are not cheap. 1 months supply will run you a few grand), his psychotherapy and now a 25K-50K surgery? At what point does it stop?

He may have the disorder, but that doesnt grant him the right to get free plastic surgery.

musicalsunlight · September 2012

Blue, I completely agree with you that it is an abuse of the free medical care in prison. I am just responding to Sunrise & Nicole who are insinuating that people will start doing this to get out of the male prison. I think that is shortsighted to say.

lbarr088 · September 2012

When I think of adequate medical care I think of if you have the flu and are dehydrated, you get fluids. If you have a cut you get antiseptic and bandaids. If you have cancer you get chemo, surgical resection, etc. I don't think of if you are having gender identity issues that they falls under that category. Though someone may not be comfortable it is not an immediate health risk so I call BS.

Blueyed228 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:f00a6d26-9f34-4b94-83af-8e85765d73d9">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]Blue, I completely agree with you that it is an abuse of the free medical care in prison. I am just responding to Sunrise & Nicole who are insinuating that people will start doing this to get out of the male prison. I think that is shortsighted to say.
Posted by musicalsunlight[/QUOTE]

Well considering he isnt really allowed in general population, im not so sure its as unbelievable as you think. Life in prison is tough to do, doing it basically in solitary isnt something anyone would want.

[Deleted User] · September 2012

MuSu, I agree. But I don't disagree with Nicole and Sunrise either. I don't agree with how they are saying it, but they are giving extreme views and I think giving a prisioner, murderer, free plastic surgery is absolutely extreme. Therapy is one thing, especially for those who will be released back into society one day, but for a murderer who will probably never get out, giving him all the prep and the actual procedure is beyond bull.

SunriseAmber · September 2012

I didn't mean to offend any one and I do agree that this is a huge issue with people and a REAL issue for people. But I don't believe this guy is legit. I don't think man will start doing this for the hell of it. There just seems to be something wrong with this whole situation.

Either way, he started this after he was in prison for awhile. I don't think we should pay for this procedure.

SunriseAmber · September 2012

TK ate my post. So I'll try again.

I didn't mean to be offensive towards any one. I do know that this is a HUGE deal and very real to people. But I don't know if I believe this guy is legit. I also don't think man will be doing this surgery just for the hell of it but there could be other issues going on with this guy for him to do this. We just don't know and like I said I give this the sideeye.

Either way, I don't think we should have to pay for it.

Blueyed228 · September 2012

I have friends with this disorder who would love to be able to afford this surgery.

Why should their tax dollars pay for this scumbags surgery?

SunriseAmber · September 2012

Apparently, TK didn't eat my post I'm just impatient.

I agree Blue, if this isn't something any one can receive by the government and tax dollars than he definitly shouldn't receive this perk.

musicalsunlight · September 2012

I completely agree that no one should get free plastic surgery in prison.

NicoleSahara · September 2012

I wasn't trying to offend anyone either MuSu, I believe the issue is a legitimate one, but was just looking at other potential issues that could crop up from this.

sunshine82582 · September 2012

That just literally turns my stomach. It is ridiculous how many rights/privileges these prisoners have. Hell, they get three squares and a cot plus a helluva lot more on our dime. I know in OH they have access to the internet, FB, Twitter, college degrees, and all kinds of other sh**!!! This makes me want to start a petition on change.org!!!

[Deleted User] · September 2012

Dot

ElleB87 · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:1a49535c-3cc6-4091-abba-b5976e253ce7">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]The argument for capital punishment just gets more and more convincing for me.
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

Co-signed.

Unfortunately I'm Canadian and the death penalty will never be put back on the table up here (even though I'm a firm believer that it should be)

dmiller9274 · September 2012

I think that gender identity disorder is a very real thing, and I can't begin to imagine how hard it would be to struggle with it. BUT there is no way in hell that a person who is incarcerated should have this surgery paid for in full by the tax payers.

That being said, UO time, I don't give a crap about the rights of people who knowingly and willfully commit murder. I don't care at all. Not one tiny bit about their rights. As far as I'm concerned, you surrender your rights the moment you decide to take the life of another person.

daria24 · September 2012

It's an elective surgery, therefore taxpayers shouldn't be paying for it. And I DGAF if some murderer feels uncomfortable.

NuggetBrain · September 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_what-say-you?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:d6796167-c4ab-42da-8a67-a52ffba65215Post:8e69f2b5-06d2-4495-ba72-320a3fffb132">Re: What say you?</a>:
[QUOTE]That just literally turns my stomach. It is ridiculous how many rights/privileges these prisoners have. Hell, they get three squares and a cot plus a helluva lot more on our dime. I know in OH they have access to the internet, FB, Twitter, college degrees, and all kinds of other sh**!!! This makes me want to start a petition on change.org!!!
Posted by sunshine82582[/QUOTE]

Yes, because God forbid someone try to get a degree while in prison and maybe, you know. Have enough education to not go back to dealing drugs or stealing cars and sh*t.

And they should totally only get one bowl of gruel and sleep on the floor.

WTF lady.

peekaboo2011 · September 2012

I agree that it's BS that taxpayers are funding this whole thing.

However, I kind of see the other side - if she's gone so far as to try to castrate herself twice, and commit suicide while on antidepressants more than once, maybe they're out of other treatment options. That does not change my opinion that if she wants it, she needs to pay for it.

mmmendi · September 2012

I have a friend, serving a life (without parole) sentence. (He should be, he committed a brutal murder. I don't argue that at all.) A few years ago, he was brutally beaten by another inmate. He almost died, and spent months in a hospital. They did repair enough teeth for him to eat, his ears enough to support his glasses, and were very clear that any surgery to correct his appearance otherwise was considered cosmetic - and as elective surgery was not treatment he would receive. I don't disagree with that...but it does seem difficult to balance and defend gender reassignment surgery in light of the process not having begun (or even had been announced as an issue) prior to incarceration...and under the pretense that most insurance companies do view it as an elective.

Of course, had she chosen to not commit murder, she would have had more options to earn the funds for that change with or without insurance.

sunshine82582 · September 2012

@ NuggetBrain: I posted what I said from personal experience. I am not talking about the average idiot who boosts a car or sells a few ounces of weed. The slimeball who raped me as a child is currently in prison getting a free college education (while the rest of us average joes had to pay for it), access to the internet (we all know that it's a playground for sexual predators), and free healthcare (don't even get me started on that one). I bet he wouldn't last 5 minutes if they ever do let him out. I believe that when you commit heinous crimes, your right to anything above BASIC human necessity should be forfeited. Taxpayers should NOT have to be forced to support a comfortable lifestyle for people in PRISON!!!

Then again...you may not understand. The screen name speaks for itself....

chelseamb11 · September 2012

I totally agree that this is beyond what is medically necessary.
I've always thought that inmates have it WAY too good. Many of them have it better than if they were free. Not cool.
This is not a medically necessary thing. I'm also on the fence on how I feel about inmates getting full free healthcare when it's costing the average family hundreds of dollars per month. I'm all for inmates getting the basic necessities of life, but I think it's crap that tax money has to cover most of it. They should have to work their asses off to generate prison income that helps sustain them.

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