Wedding Party Advice

artemis82 · August 2009

Hi,I just felt I had to speak up to the regulars particularly on the wedding party board. The advice you guys give is crummy and quite frankly, mean. It makes brides feel like bitches no matter what they do and that's not fair. Here are my thoughts #1 Asking a bridesmaid to step down is not necessarily a friendship ending move, and if what you guys say is true that all they do is show up with the dress on the wedding day, then being kicked out shouldn't be the end of the world to them. Sometimes they just aren't the friends the bride thought or they just aren't compatible in this specific situationa and you shouldn't ask a poor bride to put up with being unhappy just because you guys say she can't change her wedding party once she's chosen it. As long as she isn't being hurtful to her weddingparty and does any changes in a respectful way with legitimate concerns, there is nothing wrong with this if her weddingparty isn't up to snuff.Which brings me to my next point:#2 A bridesmaid does more than just show up on the day of with a dress, again if this weren't the case then you guys wouldn't preach about how they aren't just roles to be filled and that you can't replace them on a whim. They are the bride's best friends, and therefore should be wanting to be there for the bride- they should be supportive and encouraging, they should see their role as important and yes, take it SERIOUSLY. The bride can't tell them to be there for her, but if they aren't being there for her, she has a reason to feel hurt. They should be helping her because they WANT to- she is their friend.and to my next point #3 there are things less ridicoulous then complete betrayal or a psychotic bridesmaid which warrants kicking a girl out. Sometimes friendships seem like one way on the outside, but when you are asked to be a little selfless, you really see people's true colours and how they feel about you. An unaccommodating bridesmaid could be a sign that the friendship is not as strong as the bride thought and only the bride can know this- you can't constantly give the stock answer that almost nothing warrants kicking a bridesmaid out.#4 You HAVE to replace a MOH. YOu must have someone sign the license/registry and therefore, if your MOH bows out or you kick her out - you MUST promote someone or legally you're not married. By definition, the MOH signs the register. That's the biggest reason she's the HONOR attendantand last #5 This whole street goes both ways- you guys always tell brides to consider the BMs feelings, that she may be overwhelming them, hurting them, blah blah blah- what about the bride??? Sometimes there are brides who are just asking for a little help, and if their FRIEND is not willing to help out then maybe she has a right to be upset. The bride may have been there for her BMs wedding or maybe did some great things for this girl, or thought they had a close relationship and that she'd be there for her when she needed her. This more than just wearing a dress on the day of the wedding.Just my two cents. I think you guys need to stop giving your angry stock answers to every bride who might be having problems with her WP. This makes girls in wedding parties resentful when the brides asks them to do ANTYHING- which isn't fair, because you agreed to be in the BRIDE'S wedding (not their own) and unless the bride is torturing, embaressing or hurting a bridesmaid, they should be supportive and go along with the bride's decisions. All this is of course within reason- I'm certainly not saying that all requests are reasonable, but I am saying that bridesmaids need to be accommodating and the trend I'm noticing is that bridesmaid are becoming resentful and unhelpful not because brides are more demanding - hell, BMs have been doing showers for DECADES- it's because they feel a sense of need to control things as the media and YOU KNOTTIES have struck the fear of "bridezillas" in them so that any request seems like the bride is wanting too much.

*BeachBride0410* · August 2009

Thank you for writing this, sometimes I read some of the "advice" given and just shake my head. I'm not saying I agree with all of your comments, but it was well put.

swim1011 · August 2009

*pulls out a bag of popcorn and grabs a chair* This should be interesting.

emilykathleen511 · August 2009

You know, I think she does have a point. I also think she is off-base on a lot of things.The comments I appreciate have to do with the fact that the friends that are in your bridal party should be close enough to you that they should WANT to be supportive and helpful. I definitely don't think they should be your waitstaff or that you should choose based on who will do the most for you, but I do think that it would hurt as a bride to choose who you think are your closest friends and then find out that they just want to cause drama and that they aren't at all supportive or helpful. I'm just sayin'.Like I said, I also think that most of her points were off-base.

Kati0105 · August 2009

It makes brides feel like bitches no matter what they do and that's not fair.Umm, false. If a bride comes on here and says: "I chose my bridesmaids because they are my dearest friends and I can't imagine not having them stand next to me on my wedding day. I don't expect anything of them other than that they buy dresses that they all agree upon and show up to walk down the aisle and support me on the day of my wedding."Then there is no way anyone on here will make her feel like a b*tch. Because that bride is not a b*tch. Anyone who comes on here whining that her BMs are not performing slave labor/ do not like each other/ do not like the $400 dress she selected/ won't throw her a bridal shower/ etc is a b*tch and will rightfully be made to feel like one.

ffmaid · August 2009

Deanna- You are so very very wrong Ditto Retread 110%

jeannigirl · August 2009

Point 2 Ok I really would like to know help do what" Help plan the wedding? Tell us what you think that a MOH/BM's should be doing? You think their is a list of duties and responsibilities or jobs that they are supposed to be doing? what are they? You def sound like you have expectations for your WP. I think personally if one expects things from others then they are opening themselves up to be hurt and disappointed. I believe that it is an honor to be asked to be part of a friends wedding. (1) I do not expect my WP to do anything other than to buy their attire and if they for some reason need some help in doing that I will try and help them out if I really want them to be involved. (2) To show up for FI's /and I's wedding and stand by my side.#3 If they are your bf then you should know how they respond in situations. It sounds like you really may not know your friends has well has you think. Because people don't just flip switches and be totally different when it comes to a wedding. You just missed the signs or just choose to ignore them has it didn't apply to you. It has retread said does and will affect a friendship if you kick them out. It sends a big notice that you the MOH/BM has not satisyed the Bride and what your duties are.Has far has the BM's doing showers for decades that is true. Its because they want to because they love their friend and they want to show that its not because they have to.

melishka716 · August 2009

::pulls chairs next to swim and eats some popcorn::Now tell us, how do you really feel?::now is ROFL::

swans alive · August 2009

I am going to leave the first few points alone, because I just don't have the energy to get into it. Except for #4.ANYONE can sign the registry -- last I checked, there isn't a spot on the marriage license that says "Maid or Matron of Honor." I believe you just need a witness. You don't have to "promote" anyone -- ANY of your BMs can sign the license, and you'll be married. What about the bride and groom who don't have any attendants? You're telling me that they're not married, really? I had more to say, but your post is making me embarassed to be a bride at the moment.

melishka716 · August 2009

And about #5: Sometimes it's the bride who needs to be the bigger person.

jeannigirl · August 2009

ok wanted to ask about this one. "This makes girls in wedding parties resentful when the brides asks them to do ANTYHING- which isn't fair, because you agreed to be in the BRIDE'S wedding"Yes to stand along side your friend. So what are you saying here? Please back this up with what do you thing that the WP should be doing? When you ask are you expecting them to say "sure no problem anything to help? From my thinking when I ask for someones help on something, I know that they may not be able to for what ever reason or what I asked they may not be able to do. Like for instance I may ask can you help me make wedding invites they may not have the creativeness or the know how. What I did for my BP was to tell them that I wasn't expecting them to do anything other that purchase their attire and show up. If they wanted to be part of anything they could let me know, both my girls told me what they wanted to be part of with me. That wasn't planning the wedding (thats mine & FI"s part) MOH wants to be with me when I go check out Venues and try on my dress and do the cake and food tasting. My BM wants to help me with DIY projects, and be their for when I try on gowns.Their def no harm in asking for your BP for help just when you are expecting them to.

trix1223 · August 2009

I'm going to chime in on #4: My DD was just married in Pa. and while they had to have a witness when they applied for their license, no one except the officiant actually SIGNED the license.My sister was married in NJ. She didn't have a WP at all. Our mom and his dad signed the license.So you're wrong. At least in two states an honor attendant doesn't have to sign the license.Oh, FWIW, I also think you're wrong on #1, #2, #3, and #5.

jennfer626 · August 2009

Personally, I understand where OP is coming from. While a lot of posters on here do have outrageous complaints and demands and want validation for kicking out a member of their WP, some of them have legitimate concerns. I don't think that just from reading a post we can understand the entire situation. I realize that may negate the point of posting on a board to get advice ... lol. I also understand where the regulars are coming from when they post this advice. A lot of brides who don't get the response they want DD, and then the same questions get posted over and over again ... making it tiring to keep answering crazy posts. But I didn't name my MOH to be the witness. I did it because she's like a sister to me and my best friend ever and I want her by my side.

jennfer626 · August 2009

True, true. I must bow down at this to the more experienced posters on this board

swans alive · August 2009

Sometimes people do come on here with legitimate concerns or questions. I think the ladies on this board do a great job with answering those questions. And sometimes, when someone comes on here with a ridiculous question, all it takes is a little kick in the pants to come back to reality -- I think that's great, too. Wedding planning gives a person many chances to lose their mind, and if it's a choice between asking a bridezilla question on here or acting like a birdezilla in real life, I absolutely want someone to ask a bridezilla question on here as opposed to alienating the people they love. But, like PP said, we can only answer based on the information we're given. And if someone comes on here sounding like an insane bridezilla, with no backstory, then they're going to get answers that match their question. Every bride thinks their wedding is special and unique -- and it is, to the couple involved and their families. But to the bridesmaid, being in a wedding is a chance to celebrate with their friend...not to fall all over themselves being the maidservant to the bride. I know my BMs are happy for me, but I also know they don't think much about my wedding except to say "Oh, I need to go get my dress altered" or "When do I need to be at the rehearsal?" And that's fine. No one cares about my wedding as much as I do. Every bride would do well to remember that.

swans alive · August 2009

Uh, "bridezilla" not "birdezilla." Typing fail.

artemis82 · August 2009

To respond to some of your previous posts:Call it what you want, surethey can be off the street- the point is that you may be choosing someone you love to be your witneness, but the fact remains that the main duty of the maid of honour is to be a witness and therefore, giving this duty to someone else, whether you are calling them maid of honour or not, is still replacing them.Second, I don't have a specific list and I think this is where I get the most upset with the regulars on here- just because I metion the bridesmaids helping does not mean I have this laundry list of things that etiquiette books told me I have to tell them to do. I mean things like, hey my fiance is gone this weekend and I have some errands to run and need some help keeping track of my to do list while I'm out, plus it would be an awesome time to hang out with a good friend- I mean asking for help as you specifically need it, not treating them like servants but friends- you all ask your friends for help if you need it, don't you? And when I say unaccomodating I mean being too inflexible about the dress, for example. Or telling you straightup that you can't have a traditional head table because they HAVE to sit next to their husban. I may be a bride, but I'm human and I think my bridesmaids should trust me enough to be comforted knowing that I am thinking of their best interests. I know some ladies have some serious concerns but I know my bridesmaid vetoed buying a gown length dress because she thought if we weren't shopping in retail stores, that gown length isn't "in" - only tealength is. She just didn't want gown length for no other reason than that she didn't care for it. This is not something that I think a bridesmaid has a right to be difficult over. If you are genuinely uncomfortable in tealength, alright- I completely understand, but if it's just because you wouldn't choose it for yourself, let it go. You guys all talk about how the bride has to give and give and give- but what about all the other people? Don't they have to give a little too? Between demands from parents on guest lists, friends on whether you're having a cash/open bar or if they can bring their boyfriends when you know you don't have the budget, fiances with money issues and complants of their own ... It's enough to make a bride go...woah... where is the ME in this at all????? At least, that's what I've said countless times. I have a wedding that pretty much has little to do with me... mostly an amalgamation of what everyone else has required of me... Someone mentioned that a wedding stopped becoming about the bride when she involved other people- I couldn't agree more, there are many factors to consider beyond a bride's own dreams or wants, but I think you guys need to stop giving your standard, stock answers about how wrong and bitchy brides are and either probe more about the situation, or give them ways to figure it out for themselves whether they're being reasonable in their situation. Sometimes a bride has a right to be miffed because needless to say, it is her and her fiance's wedding in the end... if you don't like costume parties, do you accept an invite to one of your friend's costume parties and then tell them you don't like wearing costumes or that they should change the theme of the party? NO- you politely decline the invite and then SHUT UP. I think some BMs, parents and guests need to learn this lesson. At least, from my experience.

artemis82 · August 2009

Oh, and I forgot to comment about the Shower/bachelorette entitlement issue. I think my point on these parties is not that the bride has a right to expect them from her BMs... but that she should be able to expect enough love, support and excitement that they should want to do it... and if they are capable of it but just dont' want to do it, I think a bride has a right to be hurt.. there are many ways to have these sorts of things low key and low or no cost... they don't even have to be traidtional ideas of these parties... but friends should want to spend some time celebrating with you... what ever that means and if they don't, well then maybe there is a problem and a bride should question it.

jennfer626 · August 2009

I can see your points, Deanna.

banana468 · August 2009

Deanna, I'm really sorry you feel that way about the advice given here. As Retread said, if any posts are out of line, they will be removed. We're all for great conversation or healthy debate but harassment has no place here.1 - Asking a BM to step down is at the very least, a large public slight. It's saying that 'You're not cutting it,' which can hurt a ton. Just ask the brides here who have found themselves on the chopping block. 2 - I'll agree that there are traditional things that a BM will do. They are not required - they're just what has been done. Some friends just aren't into parties, helping stuff envelopes or tying bows and others may be into those things but logistically they can't do them. That doesn't mean that they're not pulling their weight. It just means that those BMs aren't doing those traditional things.Traditionally a husband buys his wife flowers and chocolates on Valentine's Day and he also makes sure that he holds the door open for his wife prior to getting into the car. My husband is wonderful but I can count the # of times he's opened my car door for me on one finger...because he only did it on our wedding day. (hooray keyless entry!) That doesn't make him a bad person. It just means that he loves efficiency and I'm perfectly capable of opening my own car door. The same goes for planning your wedding. If your BM doesn't help you stuff envelopes it doesn't mean she's bad - particularly if you and your FI are perfectly capable of stuffing envelopes on your own. 3 - If you find that the friendship is one sided then when you're saying is that the friendship is nonexistent - and the kicking out of the BM *is* the friendship ending move. If you're fine with that then go ahead. Just know that what you're doing is most certainly saying, "I get that this is over." 4 - You definitely DO NOT have to replace a MOH. Anyone can sign the paperwork. I can't remember who signed ours.5 - Friendship is absolutely a two way street. It's imperative that a friend always consider the feelings of her friends. That's part of being a friend. And that works both ways. A bride MUST understand that her BM has the right to turn her down - a BM needs to understand that there are some elements of being a BM that are 'required' and she has the option of saying no to those elements that aren't.Remember, friends should do those things for you because they want to - and not because you've asked them to. My BMs threw me a shower and bachelorette party and I NEVER asked for them. They did them because they wanted to.And doesn't that make it better? Can you really enjoy something when you know it was forced??

bablingbrooke · August 2009

You're right that true friends should WANT to do these things. But if they don't, you either: a) Expected them to fundamentally change their personalities b) Picked people who aren't very good friends in the first place c) Did something to piss off really good friends to the point that they refuse to do anything. I have seen 100 cases each of a, b, and c on this board. You're right, BMs SHOULD want to, but that doesn't always happen. And as someone who had a terrible MOH, I know how they feel. I sure did get upset sometimes, but I didn't kick her out. I'm very glad I didn't. She looked bad, I didn't. If I had kicked her out, people would have said "Babling is such a b!tch, she kicked her own sister out of the wedding!" By not doing that, people have actually said to me, "Wow, you really were the bigger person in this and I admire that." I still had a great time at my wedding and have no regrets. I don't look back and wish my MOH had done more; I look back and think about all the wonderful things my other BMs did for me. Kicking out a BM almost always makes the bride look bad. Most people who doesn't know the "whole story" will not give her the benefit of the doubt. Sad but true. I have conducted totally unscientific polls on this board; everyone who was kicked out of a WP does not speak to the bride anymore. I have yet to hear someone say "the bride kicked me out but we're still BFFs".

tinydancer842 · August 2009

I have to say that while many people say "you shouldn't be surprised when your BM does x, y & z" & if you are you are not as good friends as you thought is not always the case. I think that weddings bring out the worst & best in people. Sometimes they can show you who your true friends are too. It's difficult to know how someone is going to act as a BM esp. since this is usually a 1 time affair & every1 acts differently depending on the situation they are placed in.

banana468 · August 2009

Honestly, I think weddings are like alcohol. They only exacerbate the underlying tendency and truth of a person.They're stressful but they're also only as stressful as you want to make them.I have three dear friends and they were my MOH and two BMs. There were NO surprises throughout any of the planning.Any people I know who have dealt with bridezillas have also said that they were not surprised at all that the wedding planning went the way that it did.

bablingbrooke · August 2009

But you shouldn't hold it against them if they don't throw you a party. If you would end a friendship over someone not throwing you a party anyway, fine. But I doubt you would. And as someone who already had her wedding, I can tell you they are just that: parties.

tinydancer842 · August 2009

Not saying you need to hold it against them, but I think everyone needs to realize, sometimes people do change when it comes to weddings & it's not the brides fault all the time just b/c she chose them. I agree that the bridal shower is just a party & personally I think it should really be for my FI b/c all the stuff on our registry will be for him (I don't cook! lol)

bablingbrooke · August 2009

But what do you have to gain by kicking someone out?

tinydancer842 · August 2009

I don't think you should kick them out, just saying we need to appreciate the fact that sometimes friends do change & it's not always the brides fault for picking them.

jeannigirl · August 2009

so when you say that people change due to a wedding that all of a sudden someone flips a switch and they go from being real sweet to a total b****? Not sure if I buy into that logic or reasoning however thats me.. I believe that their are tell tale signs we just may not really pick them up until its to late in the game and something blows totally up.

tinydancer842 · August 2009

Not saying "total b*tch" but sometimes friends get jealous or don't act like they have in similar "life changing events". I've personally had friends grow closer & further apart due to the wedding. Not saying they are b*tches or they are horrible people, but I def. noticed some changes.

duckie1905 · August 2009

I must add my two cents.I do not like wedding planning. Weddings aren't my thing. I don't like picking flowers, making favors, dress shopping, etc. I didn't ask for help from anyone but DH in planning our wedding and I don't like it when other brides ask for my help. It is not my job to help them plan their wedding. If they ask me to be a BM I will usually say yes but I truly believe that I have the responsibility to buy the dress and show up. If I can I will plan the shower or bach party but that's it. I'm not making their favors or helping them pick out invites.If that makes me a bad friend then so be it, but I'm not someone's unpaid labor just because I'm their BM (and I'm friends with all the brides I've been a BM for, so I must not be that horrible). I'm happy to provide emotional support but I'm not their assistant. I don't have to help them do anything.And, as a former BM many times over, the MOH is not legally obligated to sign anything. Any witness to the marriage can sign, so just let that go. Replacing a BM/MOH or kicking one out is an act so heinous that it makes me sick to think women actually treat their friends and family so poorly. This, of course, excludes things like sleeping with the groom or killing a member of the bridesf family. Whining that she doesn't help enough is not a good reason to kick your friend to the curb.This is an open board with great mods. Just as anyone has the right to post their opinion you have the right to not read things that you find offensive. It is all a matter of opinion and choice.

mbcdefg · August 2009

I didn't ask for help from anyone but DH in planning our wedding and I don't like it when other brides ask for my help.Great point. I think there are a lot of BMs out there who don't offer opinions or help out of fear of annoying the bride (I mean, how many of us here are sick and tired of unsolicited advice and opinions? *raises hand*), and then brides come here and chew these poor BMs out for "not caring." Obviously we don't know if this is always the case, but I'd be willing to bet that a domewhat decent portion of situations could be due to this. And BMs aren't mind-readers! Sometimes they don't know if a bride would like some help. Also - if a wedding's gotten to the point where a bride "needs" help, then her wedding's getting out of control. A wedding is not that freaking hard to plan. With all the resources available via websites, Internet and phone, it's a snap if you don't let it overwhelm you. You narrow down your choices, consult your FI and make a decision. It doesn't take five bridesmaids to pick out invitations or a caterer. And frankly, I don't really understand why so many brides whine that nobody is helping them. I honestly don't WANT any help. If I don't have 10 people babbling opinions and advice at me, then it makes it that much easier to make my own decisions and get exactly what I want.

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