I'll be honest, this news won't make me boycott WF, but it will lessen the fuzzy feeling I get in there. It just seems kind of out of tune with the company philosophy. It's still not approaching Wal-Mart territory for me. It just makes me a little sad.
I'm not following, Mouse. You think WFM pretends it supports raw milk to turn a profit? I don't buy it. What if, say, 7-11 sold raw milk, would that be okay, because people don't look to 7-11 for their nutritional needs?People need to do their own research, end of story.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
Why would anyone think that Mackey didn't consider that his views on health care policy would turn some of his customers off, especially at a time when the issue is coming to a head in this country? He's smart enough to build a wildly successful health food store, but too stupid to think of that? I don't believe that just because you're a prominent business owner that you should feel the need to be quiet on important issues.And it's certainly not a foregone conclusion that his business is going to suffer.
If we're comparing raw milk to cigarettes than I think it's more honest to compare it to a time when cigarette companies funded studies to tout the health benefits of smoking and did their best to hide the bodies.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG."
I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
I'm in Groomz' shopping cart. No WF = no issue. I don't shop at Wal-Mart because they have terrible customer service and I always leave angry. The "emotional cost" of shopping there is far greater than the $.12 I would save on shampoo. I have no issue at all with WF selling raw milk. Many people have been drinking it for many years. It's an option. Nobody is saying that you have to drink it.
If we're comparing raw milk to cigarettes than I think it's more honest to compare it to a time when cigarette companies funded studies to tout the health benefits of smoking and did their best to hide the bodies. Except then, a 2.3 second google search wouldn't turn up all the info you need on the benefits and problems. Should consumers, and let's be honest--WF consumers are by and large sophisticated, educated, and have lots of internet access, have any personal responsibility here?
Should consumers, and let's be honest--WF consumers are by and large sophisticated, educated, and have lots of internet access, have any personal responsibility here?Fallin, if I were like that guy in Memento, just based on this morning, I would think we could be together forever.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
moo, the momento reference makes me love you so much.mouse, that may be, however, i think most people who shop at WF are more aware consumers than the average bear. and like it has been stated, they have access to the internet.I also think that more should be examined concerning raw milk consumption over time anyway. It seems to me that people who consume it regularly in Europe do not have the same problems and I wonder if there is an immunity that is built up. So therefore, could it not over time have more health benefits to people who have the immunity?
Fallin, if I were like that guy in Memento, just based on this morning, I would think we could be together forever.Unless if in 3 minutes, once you flipped over the picture of her, you wrote something bad from last week.
For less then ten cents a day, you can feed a hungry child.
Whether or not the consumer should have responsibility has little to do with the question of whether or not a company should engage in deceptive practices that undermine public health policy. Seriously? At what point do you think that products are dangerous enough that we shouldn't rely on consumer education to weigh risks and benefits?
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG."
I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Freedom Fries, anyone? LOLRaw milk can be dangerous, but there has been recent legislation passed in IL regarding the dispension of it. Consumers must share some of the responsibility in making choices not only on what they will eat, how they will spend their money, but buying from approved sources.Also, for those who are crying out against the "markup" and prices of WF--the USA spends the LOWEST percentage of income on their food compared to other countries. It can be argued that it's because so much cheap stuff is available, but it's cheap stuff wrought with high fructose corn syrup and the rest of the baddie chemical compounds. For me, I directly relate the food I put into my body with how my body functions and gets energy, and that's a little more important to me than the ability to buy cheaper HoHos at Super Walmart. Some of it can just be perception (oooh, it costs more, so it must be better) but a truly smart consumer (me) actually reads the LABELS and looks to see what is IN the food.I do tend to shop according to store owners own political viewpoint (the only power of the consumer is, after all, the dollar). However, reading the excerpts from this link, I'm not in complete disagreement. At all. Americans have the highest percent of obesity, heart disease, etc., etc. To me, obesity can be just as bad as SMOKING. the strain it puts on your bodily systems can be just as detrimental. So yes, low-fat whole grains would probably help the average individual. I'm not health-obsessed, but I truly believe it makes a difference in quality of life.
I need to hear more about these deceptive practices because so far all you've given us is "I don't expect everyone has time to research every type of food they eat and I think a store with a reputation people trust has a responsibility to not tout dubious health benefits over consumer safety."
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
I think people have a personal responsibility to take care of themselves and their family. Period. You may not agree, but it is how I feel. People spend way to damn much time expecting everyone else to look out for their own personal welfare.And I think that if people are aware enough to read research about the benefits of raw milk than they are the type that read research, therefore they are reading the negatives too. But that is not really central to my point since i explained my views on personal responsibility above.
still reading butand I started drinking more Pepsi products when they announced they were offering full benefits to their gay employees' partners,This surprises me as I thought PepsiCo falls under the companies owned by the Mormon church -- Pepsi, Frito Lay, Pizza Hut, etc. The Mormons as I am sure you are well aware were a big push behind passing Prop 8 in CA.
Pepsi is owned by Joan Crawford and her estate. And nobody is gonna tell me any different with their fancy intenets and newspapers and talkies.
3 out of 4 dead babies agree! pepsi is better than coke! - EdithBouvierBeale
Lordy. Grow some balls and stop lurking. It's like stealing from the internet. Jesuschrist. -- AudreyHorne
I hate love and marriage. I got married so I could destroy these things from the inside. - NoisyPenguin
It's a good thing my circle of trust is as giant as my vagina. That only leaves a couple people out. - Cali
Also, for those who are crying out against the "markup" and prices of WF--the USA spends the LOWEST percentage of income on their food compared to other countries. It can be argued that it's because so much cheap stuff is available, but it's cheap stuff wrought with high fructose corn syrup and the rest of the baddie chemical compounds. For me, I directly relate the food I put into my body with how my body functions and gets energy, and that's a little more important to me than the ability to buy cheaper HoHos at Super Walmart. Some of it can just be perception (oooh, it costs more, so it must be better) but a truly smart consumer (me) actually reads the LABELS and looks to see what is IN the food.I agree with this 100% and I will tell you know that I care less about bragging about how much I saved on groceries (like people on MM) and more about the quality of things that I put in my body every day.
Bloomie, I think that at one time Mormons were majority shareholders at Pepsi (and Pepsi sponsored some sports teams at BYU), but I don't believe it's the case anymore.
Whether or not the consumer should have responsibility has little to do with the question of whether or not a company should engage in deceptive practices that undermine public health policy. Seriously? At what point do you think that products are dangerous enough that we shouldn't rely on consumer education to weigh risks and benefits? Almost never. My body; my choice after all. Cigarettes, high fructose corn syrup, modified hydrogenated oils, trans fats, sushi, etc., etc. are on the market. I get to chose. Frankly, I'd be far more outraged at the companies that sell processed, chemicalized crap than WF's raw milk given that the crap is sold to more poor, undereducated consumer than to a bunch of rich people more able to access information and who can afford whatever food choices they make.
Rallies, pamphlets, political maneuvering to get laws overturned. F'ing Martin Sheen (who I otherwise love) and celebrity appeals. None of that is based on science, none of it with consumer safety at the center. I'd call that deceptive. Seriously, replace something you know is dangerous in the above tactics and see if the wrongness stands out more. What if people wanted to bring back radium water? And got Matt Damon to drink it publicly? Would it all be about consumer choice then? And I've known waaaaay too many people (including educated liberals) who think if the government allows something to be sold it can't be that bad for you. Stupid? Yes, but I don't think their kids should suffer for it.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG."
I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Seriously, replace something you know is dangerous in the above tactics and see if the wrongness stands out more. What if people wanted to bring back radium water? And got Matt Damon to drink it publicly? Would it all be about consumer choice then?Actually, yes. You still have the choice of whether or not you buy and consume the product that's being advertised. It doesn't matter what celebrity of the week they have promoting the product, it's still YOUR choice whether you buy into it. Does it have the potential to sway your opinion one way or the other, particularly if it's a generally well liked celebrity? Sure, maybe. But that doesn't mean you lose all responsibility for making your own decisions
Going back to the original post, I read this article the day it was published and I just read it again now. I still don't see what is so outrageously horrible about any of his ideas that it would cause people to not shop there anymore or to lose a warm fuzzy feeling. Most of them would likely be very effective and helpful to a lot of people (I especially get behind his first suggestion), and at the very least they are an excellent starting point for a discussion on different ideas to address our health care problems.
Well, there are obviously some science that says raw milk is bad but, in my admittedly limited reasearch, it seems that there may be benefits as well, so comparing it to cigs or radium water seems...extreme. I'm having a hard time reconciling this idea that corporations should decide what consumers can and can't eat with your usual it's my body; it's my kid; I get to decide what's best for me stance. Does that stop at food? Should stores ban selling cigs or alcohol to pregnant women because smoking is bad for them? Should stores stop advertising sugared "juice" for kids because they may have stupid parents that allow them to drink it? Where's the line?
Yup, it still comes down to personal choice. Raw milk, cigarettes, sushi, or uranium coated razor blades.Which, damn you Winged, now I have a wicked craving for some.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
Oh, I wouldn't deny your right to eat it, if you think uranium covered razor blades or trepanation is the way to go that's fine. I just don't think companies should be allowed to market it to you and profit from it. There's a big difference there.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG."
I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Re: Toodles, Whole Foods
The nerve!
House | Blog
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
The nerve!
House | Blog
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
For less then ten cents a day, you can feed a hungry child.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
3 out of 4 dead babies agree! pepsi is better than coke! - EdithBouvierBeale
Lordy. Grow some balls and stop lurking. It's like stealing from the internet. Jesuschrist. -- AudreyHorne
I hate love and marriage. I got married so I could destroy these things from the inside. - NoisyPenguin
It's a good thing my circle of trust is as giant as my vagina. That only leaves a couple people out. - Cali
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
For less then ten cents a day, you can feed a hungry child.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman