Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony

carolyncleek · March 2012

Hi Brides!

My fiance is a officer in the navy and he proposed 3 weeks ago, and we are thinking about doing the JOP before the church ceremony. Our wedding isn't set until November of 2013 only because my fiance will be having surgery later this year followed by braces. We have been together for 3 years and we will be paying for the enitre wedding (including traveling from Washington dc to san diego numerous times). I have been opposed to getting married only because of the benefits the military gives you, but in our case we won't be able to afford our wedding on our two salaries alone. The only concern I have is if the Catholic Church will refuse to marry us since we did the JOP beforehand, i want the traditional ceremony not a renewal of vows... Anyone have any advice? I'm hoping to meet with the Chaplin at the Navy Yard soon but any advice or past experiences is greatly appreciated!

calindi · March 2012

Congrats on your engagement!

The very simple answer is that lots of people have budgetary concerns, whether they're in the military or not. The solution is to have the wedding you can afford at the time. Non-military couples don't really think it's okay to get married, save up for years, and then have the wedding, right? I will never understand why people think, "Oh, but we'll get money if we're married, so we can use that for our wedding!" makes any sense. Getting married legally so you can pocket military benefits to pay for your wedding isn't really an exception from "getting married only because of the benefits the military gives you". It's exactly the same thing.

The Catholic Church does convalidations, in which they recognize marriages that occured outside the Church, but this isn't a guaranteed thing and has to be approved. We can't give you advice on that - talk to the priest you'd want to marry you at your church ceremony.

If you want the traditional ceremony, get married in the Catholic Church the first time and cut back expenses on other things to make it happen. Otherwise, check into the convalidation. Either way, make sure every guest who is invited knows it's a convalidation and not a wedding, as pretending you aren't married when you really are is rather tacky and dishonest.

ggirl2001 · March 2012

I had something typed up but TK mobile sucks. So yeah ditto cal.

Sammy0709 · March 2012

I know you said that you are going to use the benefits money to help pay for your wedding but that's not really what the money is for so I'd still be opposed to it. I don't know why you wouldn't just wait and have the wedding you can afford? I know it's not ideal to have to budget yourself but many of the ladies here have had beautiful weddings on budgets by doing DIY and what not. You'd be surprised at what you can do with even a little bit of money.

I had a JOP with a religious ceremony after but it the religious ceremony was an afterthought caused by my family not being satisfied with the lack of a pastor presiding over my ceremony. I also am not Catholic so I'm no help there.

If you do decide to JOP and have a Catholic ceremony later please don't lie to your guests. That's one thing we see here a lot and I'm not assuming that you would but I feel like it's a necessary word of caution.

Sammy0709 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:0648d30c-75d6-42c8-984d-8375aecac033">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]Congrats on your engagement! The very simple answer is that lots of people have budgetary concerns, whether they're in the military or not. The solution is to have the wedding you can afford at the time. Non-military couples don't really think it's okay to get married, save up for years, and then have the wedding, right? I will never understand why people think, "Oh, but we'll get money if we're married, so we can use that for our wedding!" makes any sense. <strong>Getting married legally so you can pocket military benefits to pay for your wedding isn't really an exception from "getting married only because of the benefits the military gives you". It's exactly the same thing.</strong> The Catholic Church does convalidations, in which they recognize marriages that occured outside the Church, but this isn't a guaranteed thing and has to be approved. We can't give you advice on that - talk to the priest you'd want to marry you at your church ceremony. If you want the traditional ceremony, get married in the Catholic Church the first time and cut back expenses on other things to make it happen. Otherwise, check into the convalidation. Either way, make sure every guest who is invited knows it's a convalidation and not a wedding, as pretending you aren't married when you really are is rather tacky and dishonest.
Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]
Cal stated the bolded better than I did.

Sammy0709 · March 2012

I'm being a PW but, OP, I would change your screen name if that is your full name. There are all kinds of creepers on the internet.

divinemsbee · March 2012

Okay, I don't have personal experience with this, but I am Catholic (13 years of Catholic school, too) and had a very close friend go through getting a convalidation (that's what it's called when you get your marriage that was outside the Church blessed) last summer.

They might refuse to bless your marriage. They might not. It's totally down to the priest, the diocese, and how you go about dealing with it. You will still have to go through most of the pre-marital counseling, and you will have to answer for why you chose to not marry in the Church (braces is probably not a good enough reason, but you never know). You'll still have to fill out all the papers and that jazz.

However, this will not be a "traditional ceremony." It won't even be a VR, come to think of it, I don't know that the Catholic Church does any sort of VR ceremony in a church, but I could be wrong about that one. Once you've gone through all the stuff you need to, you will go to the church and they do a small ceremony that lasts around 15 minutes. I've heard some priests will allow you to have family there, but some are very adamant that it not be treated as a wedding ceremony because you are already married, they are just validating it in the eyes of the church. The whole white dress and bridal party thing is probably not going to fly even if they allow you to have more people at the ceremony.

The one thing you should know is that a convalidation isn't a sure thing, and if you talk to a priest beforehand and say that you want to JOP but get married/make sure you get a big convalidation later, he will probably laugh. Okay, maybe not laugh, but he will have some very serious questions about why you can't go through marriage prep now. And not being able to afford the wedding of your dreams is not going to work on Mr. Vow of Poverty.

So, I say, either wait and save money, or if you absolutely can't ever save enough for your dream wedding, then you're going to have to re-think this. November 2013 is over a year away, I think you'd be able to put up enough money for something simple and beautiful by then, if you couldn't, then maybe you need to be in a better financial place before you get married.

CAB1217 · March 2012

I guess I'm not getting this: why not wait to get married, when you can get married? Why JOP first? Things shouldn't change from now til Nov. 2013, right? If you go to the JOP first, then there is no way to get around the fact that your 2nd event will be a vow renewal. You will be married already, so vows are being renewed.

NOTHING is wrong with having a vow renewal, at all. Especially when you're doing it to have your families and friends there to celebrate your union, but it doesn't make sense (to me) to want a traditional wedding when you're already married.

Also, I personally don't see a difference between a convalidation and a vow renewal, other than the recognition of the Catholic church, of course. But still, it's not a supposed to be a "do over" wedding. (Anyone, correct me if I am wrong about that. I don't want to offend anyone with my ignorance

)

I hope I am not coming off as attacking you, OP. I just think that in your case, you'd be happier waiting until you can have you ceremony/wedding, as opposed to going the JOP first route.

divinemsbee · March 2012

Also, while my wedding will definitely be in a place where COL is lower and I'm sure weddings are cheaper than either SD or DC, my FI and I (my grandmother is paying for my dress, and I am sure my family will help some, but mainly us) are paying for our wedding. I'm only working part-time and he's a 2nd Lt and we're not breaking the bank here. I hate to say things like "If we can do it, you can too!" but it's all just a matter of prioritizing. I just really don't see how two people with an officer's salary and you working (I'm assuming, since you said two salaries) wouldn't be able to afford a probably very nice wedding together.

I totally understand that there is pressure to get married for the money, because money is a useful thing. FI and I were pressured by his family (which has a lot of military background) to go ahead and do it. We had thought about doing it in May when he got back. He's had several people remind him that if we were married that he'd get separation pay while he was TDY. Ultimately, having our friends and family there to celebrate and having our marriage blessed in the Church was more important than a couple of hundred extra dollars a month.

LetsHikeToday · March 2012

I'm confused. The wedding will be too expensive on two salaries but the few extra hundred you'd get a month would help? Plan a wedding you can afford.

shan87 · March 2012

Right after we got engaged, H talked about JOPing so I could be added to his orders before he finished UPT. I talked to my Priest (Catholic Wedding/Church) about it and He was cool with it and would have allowed us a Marriage/Wedding Ceremony as if we didn't JOP, HOWEVER, we had to agree not to live together until our marriage was recognized by the church. We were LD so that wasn't an issue. But in the end it was more expensive and hassle to do a JOP so we didn't.

Our Priest doesn't view a JOP as anything, since there was/is no blessing in his eyes and the eyes of the Catholic Church you're not married it's like it didn't happen. Legally, and for every other practical purpose you are, of course. It appears though that it differs greatly throughout the faith as a whole.

FTR, I don't agree with anyone getting legally (et al) married for any other reason then for love, companionship, commitment. .... ie MONEY. and yes OP you are, because if you were not you would be getting married in 2013.

also/and/ps I hate how society has put this stupid BS of what a Wedding should be in people's head.

divinemsbee · March 2012

Hike-That's actually the part I'm the most stuck on. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Shan-Yeah, priests like yours are really rare when it comes to convalidation. I do think that having a member of the relationship in the military may change some priests minds on what they're willing to do/how far they're willing to bend, but definitely not all of them. My friend who got her marriage validated actually just got lucky. She was raised Catholic, her husband was baptized Baptist but was practically atheist at the time of their wedding. She fully admits that she didn't do the Catholic thing the first time because of the hassle, really just wanted to go to Vegas; they ended up having a non-religious ceremony. She started going back to church when their son was about 2, and then when she got pregnant again she decided that she wanted to baptize the kids, so they did the convalidation while she was pregnant with their second baby. I honestly think that had it not been for the kids being involved and her being pregnant and her knowing the priest for years, that it would have been pretty touch and go for them to get one.

kara811 · March 2012

I am also with Hike on this one. I just can't imagine how a couple with 2 salaries, 1 being that of an officer cannot afford a wedding right now. Most of us here have SMs that are enlisted, making less money than OP's FI, we were all able to do it just fine. I do realize that everyone have different circumstances and positions financially but learn to have the wedding you can afford. Also, I'm nor against convalidation or VRs at all, BUT if a couple is doing it for the benefitsmoney, I would definitely give them a sideeye.

Beachy730 · March 2012

I started typing out a respone and gave up and erased it. I just can't get over the fact that you're saying you can't afford a wedding on your two salaries. Who else's freaking salaries are you expecting to pay for it? If you can't afford the wedding you want, change some plans so that you can afford it.

Unless your FI is 05 or higher you would only get about $200 more a month. That's only $4,000 total between now and next November. Only you and your FI can decide if that amount of money is worth it to you.

LetsHikeToday · March 2012

I will be honest and say that my parents paid for my wedding as a gift. But, of they hadn't offered, H and I would have paid for it on two salaries.

lrh17 · March 2012

I don't understand how you can say that you're opposed to getting married only for the benefits from the military when that's exactly what you're doing to fund your wedding. And like beach said, it's not even that much more per month!

Is the Catholic ceremony something that is important to you and FI, or is it something just your family wants? If it is a priority for you and FI and you're not just doing it to please others, I would especially advise you to just wait until Nov 2013 if that's the ceremony that's going to be important to you! There's nothing wrong with having a JOP wedding, but doing it for the money rather than b/c that's the way you want to get married just seems wrong.

And you mentioned having to pay for multiple trips from DC to San Diego, which I can totally see how that would get to be pretty expensive. Is there family there that could do some initial research scoping out vendors? I'm pretty sure many ladies on this board have planned a wedding from a distance, and could offer some great advice to cut down on the actual physical trips you would need to make to take care of details.

CAB1217 · March 2012

This is crap.

Sammy0709 · March 2012

If we all leave TK I refuse to go to cinchouse just so we're all aware. There's too many rainbows, butterflies, and bad decisions there.

divinemsbee · March 2012

I always wonder if TK just got hungry or if we did something "bad." I think that thread was pretty tame, but most of the other boards are working for me, so I'm not sure.

Sammy0709 · March 2012

I thought that yesterday. What if they're censoring us? The posts usually come back eventually though.

BinxRose · March 2012

so dumb so dumb

amh04 · March 2012

Dumb TK.. I'm seriously over this. Like it's ridiculous, there isn't a point in posting when half the time it doesn't even work. It's become more annoying than a good distraction during the work day... sigh.. bad tk.. bad bad bad tk.

crownsuperstar · March 2012

Wait what happened?!? UGH!!!! I opened it and saw Shan first and I thought to my she didn't have a JOP. haaa

Irishcurls · March 2012

Ok ridiculous. TK sucks.

But either way, the Catholic chuch will not allow that OP. You can usually have a convalidation after the fact though, but depending on the parish, it's not a full ceremony. Sometimes it's just part of a normal Sunday service. Talk to your priest, because the Catholic church doesn't mess around with marriage, regardless of one of you being in the military.

Irishcurls · March 2012

See my post above. You cannot get married anywhere after getting married with a JOP, obviously since you're already married. But the Catholic Church specifically is very strict about entering into the Sacrament of Marriage. If you get married soon, you could contact your priest about doing a convalidation ceremony to make it a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church. However, not all priests will do them, and I certainly wouldn't mention your reasoning as money, because that's not gonna fly. It depends on the parish and the priest, so I would contact them before geting married, to ensure you're not preventing yourself from having the marriage blessed after the fact.

Or just get married in November 2013, when you can conceivably afford it, if I'm reading your post correctly. Either that or get married by a Justice of the Peace and call it good.

And I've said it before but I find getting married for money disgusting.

Irishcurls · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:b30120ef-2609-4e77-b050-012a9ce46d74">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]@Irish curls Thanks for advice, I have made an appointment to meet with the Chaplin on base here. FYI.. if we were money greedy we would've tied the knot a long time ago but we want to do it the right way. That being said, the majority of people get their parents or family members to pick up the tab on weddings so we are only considering doing the JOP because we're already living together, setting a date, etc.
Posted by carolyncleek[/QUOTE]
Regardless of the "other people" of which you speak, I find it deplorable. Wait until you can afford it then. I just wanted to be up front about that. I do however wish you luck with contacting your priest, and hopefully you will find them helpful.

AmandaSC1988 · March 2012

So... plenty of people don't have their parents paying for the wedding. My parents are helping out a bit, but not enough to really have the wedding we wanted. We saved... and I did a lot of DIY to save money.

JOP for money does not sit well with the Catholic Church. A Covalidation is NOT a wedding... it is not a vow renewal and most of the time they are private ceremonies. I have NEVER ever heard of a priest making a big hoop-la over a covalidation...You don't wear a big fancy dress, because I have only seen them done right after a mass.

But, I agree completely with Irish. getting married for money is disgusting.

kara811 · March 2012

Stupid TK, I replied to this thread yesterday.

Also, I am pretty damn sure OP omitted a few details from her original post like not being able to afford the wedding on 2 salaries.. Yada yada

Why does it matter if your FI is having a jaw surgery? What kind is this? My H had a jaw bone graft not too long ago, I know it will take forever to heal but I can assure you, he's been able to do everything.

Again, like I said yesterday. I simply don't get how you cannot afford a wedding on 2 salaries, one being that of an officer. Surely you can save money? Many of us here have enlisted SOs and we were able to have our weddings just fine. Also, it isn't the olden days anymore, the couple's family doesn't have to contribute anything to the wedding. H and I paid for our wedding ourselves.

kara811 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:b30120ef-2609-4e77-b050-012a9ce46d74">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]@Irish curls Thanks for advice, I have made an appointment to meet with the Chaplin on base here. <strong>FYI.. if we were money greedy we would've tied the knot a long time ago but we want to do it the right way. </strong>That being said, the majority of people get their parents or family members to pick up the tab on weddings so we are only considering doing the JOP because we're already living together, setting a date, etc.
Posted by carolyncleek[/QUOTE]

<div>Just FYI, you are getting married for money. This is according to your original post. </div>

Irishcurls · March 2012

Dude, you're going to encounter criticism for a lot of people if you get married for money. But that's not the point. I'm moving on from that, as it's your life.

You can't get married in the Catholic church if you are married by a JOP. There arw no other experiences to share, other than a convalidation. I'm not being a pain in the ass, I swear. Getting married in the church was serious and a little intimidating. They ask you a lot of questions and point blank ask you if you are married already, have ever been married before etc. Try the Catholic board for convalidation experiences, I don't know of any regs on here that have had one.

AmandaSC1988 · March 2012

You might go post this on the Catholic board

Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony

Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony

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